Lamm ML1.1 & ML 2.1

Hi Jason

I did keep the SL55 and found a way to buy not only the ML3 Signature but so also Vladimir's new LL1 Signature preamp.A far more detailed and revealing system than its predecessor

Hi Oneobgyn, did you part with the SL 55 or did you keep it and get the Lamm ML3`s as well.
How is your system sounding now, can you notice the extra power of the ML3 compared to the ML2.1.
Cheers
Jason.

Hi Triode, yes very expensive passions both of these hobbies but very rewarding when you have the quality & experience of these two manufacturers.
All the best with the new car, I would go for the Porsche 4 wheel drive Turbo in NZ if I could afford one.
Thanks
Jason.

I'm a car guy too, 24 year PCA member and currently drive a 2004 Porsche 911 (40th Anniversary Edition). My next will be a 997S, or possibly a GT3...expensive hobbies we have, no?

Thanks Jason

I figure the only way to get these Lamm ML3's is to part with my SL55.

Hi Triode, you will know what I mean about acceleration then with the Lamm ML 2 & Avantgarde Duo omega speakers.
You will probably need a Porsche 997 GT3 to compare in a Vehicle/Audio comparison.
I would recommend trying the EMM Labs CDSD SE & DCC2 SE if you can as the front end some time, please make sure the DCC2 SE preamplifier is well run in first as this is a incredible combination.
Cheers
Jason.

Hi Oneobgyn, you have a beautifully set up listening room & audio system. I am sure the Lamm ML3 will be extremely hard for you to part with & to give back to Vladimir.
I would really like to have a pair of the ML3 my self one day to use with my Parmenter Fat Boy horn speakers, I am using the Lamm M 1.2 reference amplifiers to drive this system at the moment which control the TAD 1601 a bass drivers really well.
Cheers
Jason.

I love driving performance cars and in fact own one. They are fun to drive but cost of the luxury with insurance and maintenance etc goes without saying.
For music lovers however, to sit in the sweet spot and listen to the music delivered by the ML3 Reference is almost a life changing event. Not sure where you live Triode but if you are in the SF Bay Area I would love to host you for a listen. Not sure when we have to return these amps but it is going to be difficult to let them go.

Oneob, you are a lucky man indeed...enjoy!

The ML3, like the Porsche is something one would own for a lifetime. The amps he sent on loan are S/N 0001 and 0002.

Agree with jason and oneobgyn above - ML2 (I have the older version) is magic with Duo Omegas. The ML3 is not even a consideration for me - for that money, I'd get a Porsche 997 GT3!

Hi Jason

I too have the ML 2.1 and IMO it is the finest amp I have ever owned UNTIL I heard Vladimir's new ML Reference 3 which he was kind enough to send on loan for aaudition. Simply put the ML 3 is the amp by which all others will be compared. In 36 years of being involved with this hobby I have never heard music in such a 3D manner as this amp presents. The downside is the MSRP is $139K so my advice is to love your ML 2.1 and never audition the ML3 because it will redefine everything you have ever known in audio.
BTW, I too have Meitner gear and feel it is the best digital I have ever owned

Hi Smilin
I have owned many world class 833A/ 845/211/300 B/ 2A3 & 45 valve amplifiers which I loved for their own presentations on the Avantgarde Duo & Duo Omega speakers.
I now have the Lamm ML2.1 amplifiers and must say these are the most natural dynamic full range amplifiers I have heard on the Avantgarde Duo Omega speakers, they are also the quietest valve amplifiers made.
I would highly recommend the emmLabs CDSD SE & DCC2 SE / Lamm ML2.1 & Avantgarde Duo Omega system as a incredible musical combination.
Thanks Jason Parmenter.
www.parmentersound.com

I now have a Mactone MA300, 22 watt PP 300B amp, and I gotta say, this is better than the Lamm ML2 in my system.

"how does the Lamm compare to Cary 211"

IMO there is no comparison. Once you hear the ML 2.1 you will be hooked. It is the most musical amp I have ever owned

711smilin - how does the Lamm compare to Cary 211 ?

These are just amazing amps, the more I listen, the better I hear the music. I have the best soundstage I have heard in my system, layering, depth, width, natural voices, and instraments is holographic, and just plain mind boggling for me.

Evita, I agree I need wattage, sometimes, therfore I will stay with the Lamm's for I hear magic happening, when I need to rock out, I will have the next best thing I can find, and, 120 watts is just not enough, for my present speakers. I will know more after I set up m,y custom horns, which will be about 103/104db. Thanks for the feedback, these are truely MUSICAL, and accurate amps.

Steve

I run the ML 2.1 with my Wilson X-2's (15 inch woofers) and I can play them at ear bleeding levels with no distortion.

In a 700 sq. ft. room? Playing rock 'n roll at 110dB? Steve needs wattage.

"it's time you figured out that YOU NEED WATTAGE!!!

I would respectfully disagree.

I run the ML 2.1 with my Wilson X-2's (15 inch woofers) and I can play them at ear bleeding levels with no distortion. The fact that they are but 18wpc is very misleading

Steve, it's time you figured out that YOU NEED WATTAGE!!!

Chances are that there is probably not anything wrong with your amps. It may just be the combination of the size of room, the high spl level you like to listen and the effeciency of your speakers. My room is about 425 square feet. I do listen to music at times in the 90-95db range but most of the time closer to 70-80db range. As I said before I haven't really noticed any distortion at any level that I would be listening.

OKAY, so, do you think my amps have an issue?

No detectable distortion here, either - PLENTY of headroom with 18 watts, at any sane (or somewhat insane) volume level. Enjoy!

There is absolutely no distortion with my speakers as well using high SPL

Dmailer, my room is bigger, 700 square feet, I listen normal 85Db-95Db. But, at the same time, WOW, the low level microdynamics are amazing. I have been playing around with sources last night, and hearing much bigger differences with the Lamms, than any of the 40 plus I have owned in the past few years. I still own and LOVE my Dodd 120's, headbanging at it's finest, but these, in general are fabulous too.

Ya Gotta try the Amperex 12AX7's bugle boys, d getter from the 50's....very very nice

711 smilin, glad to hear you are liking your ML2's. I am not sure the effeciency of your speakers but with the Teton's 95db I do not hear any distortion at rather loud levels. I normally listen to most music in the 70-80db range. I admit though that I have not tried or for that matter care to listen at head banging 100db+ levels.

All I gotta say is WOW, these are fun amps, accurate and scary in what they produce. Certainly not the last word in bass, or volume, but detailed up the wazoo. They sat at my office for 10 days while my Dad was in the hospital, but, over the weekend I hooked em up. They really do need a good 30-60 minutes to warm up, biasing is easy, and then, the magic happens, especially with the naturalness of the vocals, seperation of instramentation, detail of pinpoint imaging, and depth of soundstage. I am playing with different 12AX7's trying to voice this amp. I thought it would play louder w/o getting distorted, but, I can definately hear strain at higher SPL's. But, I never had, nor heard, an amp with such LUSCIOUS low level detail.

More to come

1400, hmmmmmm, I tell you the truth, I have both 1950's smooth, and ribbed plate. I ahve always felt them sterile sounding, bright, thin, unmusical. I normally like the Amperex, which I have 1957 d getter, longplates. I also have tung sol's, raytheons, mazda(silver plates), and a whole bunch more. I will post my opinions later. As far as the 803s is concerned, I feel the rarity of these tubes do not coincide with the sound.JMHO.

The only ones to play with on this amp is the 12AX7

Have a look at this for the holy grail of 12AX7's

http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-ecc803s-tele.html

I am a tube rolling fool, next week when I receive mine, I will roll with 10 pair, or so. I will then give opinions.

Oneobgyn and Dmailer,

I have been following this thread and wanted to let you know I just replaced VTL Ref 750's with the Lamm ML2's on my Kharma 1-E,same as the 1-DDE .

Althought the VTL's are a truly great sounding amp,Lamm's are the most musical on this speaker IMHO for all the reasons outlined.

My experience rolling tubes wasn't as positive with the Telefunken's, but perhaps I had a bad tube. The stock tubes from Lamm were the GE 12ax7's, and they sounded better.

I am told that this speaker also responds well to biamping, which may be the next threshold and scary with 4 Lamms.

Steve,

I just recieved the Pass X350.5.
Minutes after...
Out of the box, brand new, WOW!!!
I've had Amps that are rated high power, but with the Pass Amps you can feel the effortless power.
Deep soundstage and vocals that are so natural. The bass sounds exellent, clean and defined and the treble is great !.
Everything sounds so right !
And this is again right out of the box !!!
Plugged into my APL 3910.

"I have lots of headroom with these amps"

It really never ceases to amaze me as to the amount of headroom on these amps.

Oneobgyn, I will definitely have to try out some NOS in the 12AX7 position. 711smilin, your in for a treat when those amps arrive. If your Epiphany's are more effecient than the Reimers then it should sound great as I have lots of headroom with these amps on the Tetons.

Dmailer, CONGRATS, glad your smiling, hope you keep us up to date too.

BTW, I just bought the Amperex 1958 Longplates, which are suppose to be amoung the best. I will receive my amps next week. I am trying to wait patiently.

"If you have speakers with higher effeciency though the ML2's may be the best you can get."

I absolutely agree. IMO these are hands down the finest amp I have ever owned. The mid range and high end for my ears is as good as it gets. I would be surprised if I ever buy another amp. This is audio nirvana.

Dmailer...now you must take my advice and do some experimenting with the 12AX7 tube on each amp. I didn't know what I was missing until I managed to get NOS circa 1965 Telefunken with rib plates as well as NOS circa 1957 Mullard with long plate and square getter halo. This will take these amps to a completely different level

My ML2's showed up yesterday and work just fine with my 95db Reimer Tetons. I pretty much agree with Oneobgyn on these amps as they are really special. 711smilin I look foward to your feedback on the Epiphany's. I listened for several hours last night and thought I would share some impressions and comparisons with the ML1's. I have had the ML1's in my system for several years and really had trouble imagining there could be much improvement. The first thing I noticed with the ML2's was that they did have a similar sonic signature as the ML1's. The ML1's do very well with dynamics and bass and I was surprised that the ML2's were just as dynamic sounding with only 18 watts. The one area which the ML2's exceeded the ML1's was in the low frequencies where they seem to resolve more low level detail. The area where the ML2's really stand out is in the midrange where I find it extremely engaging and more palpable. Sonic textures are very natural sounding. The ML1 on the other hand is also very transparent and has a very neutral midrange. The ML2's I would say are slightly on the warm side of neutral but in a good way. Both amps have an extended top end with the ML2 being slightly sweeter on top. Overall they do sound more alike than not but the nod goes to the ML2's for their resolving power and palpability. The difference in sound between them is most likely a result of the push pull vs single ended topology's. I suspect that each amp is at the top for its type. For the majority of speakers out there the ML1's are really hard to beat. If you have speakers with higher effeciency though the ML2's may be the best you can get.

Ken, I really just love wonderful music, my happiest point in my journey, musically was with a simple system.

Cardinal X-1
APL 3910
Modified Klipsch Cornwall

My new speakers are far better, as is the latest apl, now, I am hoping for "musical magic" from the Lamm ML2's. My interconnects/power conditioner/pre-amp are world class.

I will also keep my 120 watters to rock out.

I will have my new custom horns (104 DB)next month

I so believe I will be smilin

Steve,
I dont see you with a low power Amp.
As I recall, you like the bass.
I am going to try a Pass X 350.5 or the 600.5
Ken

They just weren't my cup of tea however, having said this it is apparent to me (saddly so) that the future of sound reproduction lies in the digital domain such as this

Ain't that the TRUTH. It really will be all computer(chip)based within another decade(IMHO)but, us audiophools will keep analog around till the end....

"Oneobgyn, have you ever heard the NHT system?"

Indeed I have

NHT has there head office not too far from where I live. One of their chief engineers (Jack Hidley) lives in the same town as I do. Several months ago my audio club (Bay Area Audio Society)hosted Jack at my house for an afternoon listening to their system. It set up quickly and for something so inexpensive was certainly above average. NHT is definitely on the fringe of digital music reproduction. Those little speakers imaged well and threw a terrific soundstage. It would fit well into a small room as mentioned above. They just weren't my cup of tea however, having said this it is apparent to me (saddly so) that the future of sound reproduction lies in the digital domain such as this

Oneobgyn, havr you ever heard the NHT system?

I think you're right.

I suspect that your room may be too small for those Klipsch horns.

Oneobgyn, ok I see.

I've also been curious about corner horns like the Klipsh Horn or the Hartsfeld Corner Horn. Field Coils are also something I would like to hear as well. I'm starting some renovations, and one possiblity is to change the listening positioning of the room from the 12x12 area, to the entire 12x24 space of the physical room. In this configuration, the corner horns would go along the short wall. I don't know if this is feasible or not.

Any thoughts here?

James

I was trying to suggest a very good and most inexpensive all in one digital system for a smaller room that you have.

You are correct...this leaves the Lamm amp out of the equation but you can buy this NHT system for less money than the Lamm amps.

Woudn't the Digital amp in the NHT system negate the Lamm ML2 all together?

Looks like they are using room correction software. I have yet to try room correction. I am thinking about room acoustic corrections though.

SirSpeedy, I've heard the Verity Parsifal (the previous versions) and was very very impressed. Maybe I should reconsider the mini-monitor/sub configuration.

Onebgyn's suggestion for the NHT XD2, interesting suggestion, I may have to read up on those...any links? You can recommend to read?

I shudder when I make this other suggestion but to consider an all digital set up such as NHT XD2