Lamm ML1.1 & ML 2.1

Hi Jason

I did keep the SL55 and found a way to buy not only the ML3 Signature but so also Vladimir's new LL1 Signature preamp.A far more detailed and revealing system than its predecessor

"how does the Lamm compare to Cary 211"

IMO there is no comparison. Once you hear the ML 2.1 you will be hooked. It is the most musical amp I have ever owned

I have the ML 2.1 and I can honestly say that of all of the amps I have ever owned none have been as musical as this amp. I toyed with the idea of the ML 1.1 only because I thought that more watts would drive my X-2 Alexandrias with more ease. How could only 18 wpc drive the 15" drivers in my speakers? I must say that I continue to be amazed at how good the ML 2.1 really is. I can play my speakers at ear bleeding levels without making the amps clip. As far as reproduction of music the ML 2.1 is as good as it gets. It will be your last amp purchase.

"but once I got the correct input tube in place"

I am curious as to which input tubes you switched to

Interesting

I just bought circa 1965 NOS Telefunken ECC 83 rib plates and I was blown away as to how much better the ML 2.1 sounds as compared to the 12AX7 tubes supplied by Vladimir. Mine were Sylvania.

I did research on the tubes and everyone recommended the rib plate vs the smooth plate

I also managed to buy circa 1957 NOS Mullard 12AX7 long plate with square getter halo. I find these to be warmer than the Telefunken but not quite as detailed

The JL-2 is a completely different beast than the Lamm. My very close friend has JL-2's. I have heard them and find them excellent but in a different sort of way than the ML 2.1.

I would compare the JL-2 to my last amp--Audio Research Reference 600 Mk lll's

"I am SO smitten by the magic of this amp(not necessarily a Kharma speaker,btw,though they are fine,even with the almost absurd overpricing),that I will most likely be HAPPY to give up all the stunning dynamic inpact,and bass depth(not to mention I have damn good tone color as of now,and a stunning soundstage,yet nothing touches the little Lamm mono blocks,Imo)that I live with now.I MUST own these,some day!!Like that character,in the movie "Close Encounters of The Third Kind",I keep saying-"This means something"!I guess I get it.It only took me 37 hobby years,to figure it out!!!

These amps are SO good,to me,that I have completely rearranged my musical perspective.Everything I've loved over the years,and all audio preconceived notions,of how a system should perform,is now DEFUNCT,by the fact that these amps exist.Obviously they will need a simple set-up,with some potential compromises.I don't care!!Nothing wrong with a nice two way,for a different look(actually,"listen")as compared to my previous full range stuff.BTW-I'm quite aware that these amps kick butt,and can deliver quite a full range sound,"if the correct speakers are chosen".There's the rub!!"

Sir Speedy...like you I have been involved in this hobby for ~35 years and have IMO owned just about every high end amp imagineable from solid state to tubes. Prior to the Lamm ML 2.1's I owned the ARC Ref 600 Mk lll's and thought them to be the cat's meow with 31 tubes per amp. I sold them to buy the new replacement Reference 610T. For private reasons the deal soured and I was pissed at this and looked for a suitable replacement. I had heard Vladimir's amps many times at CES and always felt them to be remarkable. I agonized as to whether these 18 wpc SET's could drive my huge X-2's. I made many enquiries including calls to Wilson Audio and each time was reassured that not only would they drive my speakers but would do so with plenty of head room. I bought them as a result and have had them since July 2005. Since then I can say that form my ears and my system I have reached audio nirvana. IMO there is just no amp that is as musical as this one. It brings smiles to my face daily as I scratch my head in awe.I really feel that I have made my last amp purchase. Bear in mind that Vladimir will be releasing his ML 3's 30wpc SET for CES next year which is a 4 piece set of monos at a reported MSRP of $135K.

"Oneobgyn, since I have been following your threads, I decided I just gotta hear the ML2 in my system, so, I am buying one, and will have it end of next week, or first part of the following. My speakers are 95DB Epiphany 12/12. I sure hope I feel the same way as you. The Gentleman I am buying from, is getting the Dartzeel. I just love tubes, SET especially. I just hope I get the same results, as you. I will post after receiving. I already have the Telefunken's, both smooth, and ribbed, along with about 10 other pairs of high end 12AX7's. My question is this, have you rlooed any other tbes in the amp."

711smilin...

My best advice to you is to get the ML 2's from that gentleman with a no trade back policy because IMO he will truly miss his Lamm amps after listening to the DarTZeel. If you love SET and tubes this amp is the best of the best. Are getting the ML 2 or the ML 2.1? Some feel the ML 2 was a better amp than it's successor. I cannot comment on that

As for tube rolling, I also bought circa 1957 NOS Mullard long plate with square getter halo and found them likewise to be excellent, somewhat warmer in the mid range than the Telefunken but not as defined as the Telefunken.

I also found the rib plate Telefunken's to be more defined than the smooth plate. I am using circa 1965 NOS Telefunken with rib plate.

As for the Lamm amp I have no vested interest in the company but you can find my testimonial to these amps on Valdimir's webpage.If you love music these amps are the goods and your speakers at 95 Db should be fine as mine too are 95 Db efficient with their 15" drivers.

There is absolutely no distortion with my speakers as well using high SPL

"Have any of you guys rolled the 6N6P=E182CC with a bendix 6900, or other 6119/5687 variant?"

I haven't.

Everyone I have talked to who are knowledgeable in tubes seem to think that the only tube to benefit is the 12AX7 as it is the first tube seen by the signal.

I do like the Vac and it was on my short list when I was looking to change amps but even though it is very good, I just would not trade my Lamm for the Vac.

I shudder when I make this other suggestion but to consider an all digital set up such as NHT XD2

James

I was trying to suggest a very good and most inexpensive all in one digital system for a smaller room that you have.

You are correct...this leaves the Lamm amp out of the equation but you can buy this NHT system for less money than the Lamm amps.

I suspect that your room may be too small for those Klipsch horns.

"Oneobgyn, have you ever heard the NHT system?"

Indeed I have

NHT has there head office not too far from where I live. One of their chief engineers (Jack Hidley) lives in the same town as I do. Several months ago my audio club (Bay Area Audio Society)hosted Jack at my house for an afternoon listening to their system. It set up quickly and for something so inexpensive was certainly above average. NHT is definitely on the fringe of digital music reproduction. Those little speakers imaged well and threw a terrific soundstage. It would fit well into a small room as mentioned above. They just weren't my cup of tea however, having said this it is apparent to me (saddly so) that the future of sound reproduction lies in the digital domain such as this

"it's time you figured out that YOU NEED WATTAGE!!!

I would respectfully disagree.

I run the ML 2.1 with my Wilson X-2's (15 inch woofers) and I can play them at ear bleeding levels with no distortion. The fact that they are but 18wpc is very misleading

"If you have speakers with higher effeciency though the ML2's may be the best you can get."

I absolutely agree. IMO these are hands down the finest amp I have ever owned. The mid range and high end for my ears is as good as it gets. I would be surprised if I ever buy another amp. This is audio nirvana.

Dmailer...now you must take my advice and do some experimenting with the 12AX7 tube on each amp. I didn't know what I was missing until I managed to get NOS circa 1965 Telefunken with rib plates as well as NOS circa 1957 Mullard with long plate and square getter halo. This will take these amps to a completely different level

"I have lots of headroom with these amps"

It really never ceases to amaze me as to the amount of headroom on these amps.

The only ones to play with on this amp is the 12AX7

Have a look at this for the holy grail of 12AX7's

http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-ecc803s-tele.html

Hi Jason

I too have the ML 2.1 and IMO it is the finest amp I have ever owned UNTIL I heard Vladimir's new ML Reference 3 which he was kind enough to send on loan for aaudition. Simply put the ML 3 is the amp by which all others will be compared. In 36 years of being involved with this hobby I have never heard music in such a 3D manner as this amp presents. The downside is the MSRP is $139K so my advice is to love your ML 2.1 and never audition the ML3 because it will redefine everything you have ever known in audio.
BTW, I too have Meitner gear and feel it is the best digital I have ever owned

The ML3, like the Porsche is something one would own for a lifetime. The amps he sent on loan are S/N 0001 and 0002.

I love driving performance cars and in fact own one. They are fun to drive but cost of the luxury with insurance and maintenance etc goes without saying.
For music lovers however, to sit in the sweet spot and listen to the music delivered by the ML3 Reference is almost a life changing event. Not sure where you live Triode but if you are in the SF Bay Area I would love to host you for a listen. Not sure when we have to return these amps but it is going to be difficult to let them go.

Thanks Jason

I figure the only way to get these Lamm ML3's is to part with my SL55.