kid303 - I know a few years back KLE Innovations used a "trademarked" name of "PureSilver" which some people interpreted as solid silver.
Also some cable manufacturers that use the Harmony plugs still incorrectly promote the Silver Harmony RCA as having solid silver pins.
If you look at the KLEI web site you will see that the silver plated copper pins on the Silver Harmony RCA plugs actually have a conductivity rating of >105%, which equals the best solid silver conductors.
Today - I cannot say if the pins on any of the Harmony plugs are actually solid silver or ever have been.
From my own personal Harmony Plug observations - I have tried RCA plugs from Furutech, WBT and Neotech (to name the most popular) and the KLE Innovations Harmony plugs provided the best sound quality of them all.
I have found through over 5 years of development of my own DIY cables that silver plated stranded conductors actually sounded more pleasing than a solid silver conductors.
Also, I found that using a 24 gauge stranded silver plated wire for the signal and a 16 gauge stranded silver plated wire for the neutral provides the best sound quality.
I, like yourself, originally believed solid silver was the best conductor, but my ears have since told me differently.
Why? I do not have an explanation and to be honest I am past caring.
My own cables sound amazing and that’s all that matter to me and the various people that have tried them.
I have also auditioned at length (i.e. over a 3 year period) most of the KLE Innovations cables and found them to be excellent performers, but they do take over 400 hours of burn in to sound their best. Unfortunately, they do go through a "rough patch" at between 24-60 hours of playing time, but they do improve and get much better after around 120 hours of listening.
I have compared them to a few top cables from other named brands and each time they either equalled or exceeded their performance
I am not going to speculate as to whether the intent of some of the "wording choices" on the KLE Innovations web site was a deliberate attempt to mislead the public. Keith Louie Eichman has already been tarred and feathered for that. I also do not defend KLE innovations for the mistakes they have made.
When I do promote their products it is based solely on the sound quality that I have observed through a lengthy audition process that generally lasts between 4-6 weeks and hundreds of hours of burn-in per product.
Hope you find your answer - Steve |
3 guys in Idaho got these cables this company is certainly not a major player try Purist get a real cable.Good luck though!! |
One thing I don't get about the Silver Harmony is he fact that it has a Pure silver ground but a silver plated signal. Perhaps I'm missing something but I thought it would be best to have the signal as the purer of the two connectors, that has left me quite puzzled and I fail to see the benefits of this configuration, or is it an impedance thing, whereas the ground must have less impedance or something, I'm scratching my head as to why this combination is used.Perhaps somone can enlighten me as to why this might be, after all I'm new to this. |
I hear at Taiwan HiFi show that some big local sellers are not happy that the KLEI Pure Harmony and Absolute Harmony RCAs are not solid silver, as they believed. One poster before, he asks why would KLEI deceive customers. I do not know. But people are are unhappy.
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Sorry, I think my last post sounded too harsh when I said: "not my problem". I mean I could do nothing to resolve the issue of bad advertising by KLEI. Sorry.
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@yping But I see original advertising through wayback machine link. Maybe KLEI make mistake, maybe not. But if mistake then a very silly one. And even if mistake then still very misleading for all customers. Still misleading advertising even if mistake, yet no clear statement or apology from KLEI for amazing confusion. And I see sellers of KLEI plugs still confused. But not my problem. I like the copper Harmony and I think I will try the ETI pure silver next and also the Furutech RCAs with rhodium plating.
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Thank you auxinput for your comments. The build quality on Furutech products is amazing, although I have not tried the RCAs you mentioned but I have tried the FP202 (R) banana plugs and liked them a lot. Yes, I understand that Rhodium is not the best conductor but I agree that on the banana plugs it sounded smooth and neutral when it settled in. But I was a bit worried that the Furutech rhodium RCAs may not be as good because the strength of the signal differs between interconnects and speaker cables. So I was thinking best conductivity would be better for low level signal in interconnects.
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Go back and look at your initial post - which was a preemptive, biased attempt to defend KLEI.
Apparently you "... felt it was important to bring this to everyone’s attention to avoid possible misconceptions and future postings that might propagate this kind of nonsense. ..."
There are enough facts available so that one can draw his/her own conclusion - without your slanted gloss and obfuscation. It is abundantly clear to many what transpired.
Possible misconceptions? - C'mon man. This is insulting.
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@ricevs - Hmmm - well Mr.Ric Schultz of Electronic Visionary Systems (EVS, USA) - where do I start... They made no effort to correct anyone or reveal the truth until someone filed off the silver of one of the "pure silver" ones and saw it was copper underneath. Actually - you are incorrect - KLEI has worked with the companies they had sold their RCA;s to in order to correct the issue. Some agreed to make changes - others continually refused ot make changes for some strange reason. As for .... I wonder if they asked you or even paid you to come onto this forum and try to do some "damage control" Is this comment based on your own personal experience of me? - NO! - KLE Innovations has never asked me or paid me to post on Audiogon or any other forum. I do it willingly to let people know about their superb products. You will also find posts by me pertaining to products like NAIM 5i mk II, Audiomods arms, Van den Hul cables, Schiit Bifrost, Bluesound Node 2, Gershman Acoustics speakers, Simmaudio Moon, Avantgarde speakers, Pass and Seymour outlets, Furutech cables, DH Labs products - to name but a few - did they pay me also? - NO! Casting asspersions about other peoples character without any proof to back up your staments serves no purpose - other than to show what kind of person YOU really are.. Without knowing - You are speculating - at best You are naïve beyond Willey Wonka. he he Once again - you do not know me. As for...
After all, you were the first person to review the connectors for them and boosted their sales tremendously. And/or maybe you feel your own reviews/reputation were now in question because of their lies.
I stand by each review - I have no beef with KLEI - they make great products and my system has never sounde so good I hate to repeat myself, but... They have fixed the offending text on their site and would like to move on - I suggest we all do the same Regards - Steve |
You are naïve beyond Willey Wonka. he he In the beginning is was clearly stated that the "copper harmony" was silver plated copper. The next one up (silver harmony) had "pure silver" ground The next one up had pure silver ground and hot....and the best one had "better pure silver". This is what was stated. I was a dealer in the beginning. I remember this well. This is why you, me and everyone else thought is was "pure silver".......because this is what they stated. And this is what all advertisers, etc. said. They made no effort to correct anyone or reveal the truth until someone filed off the silver of one of the "pure silver" ones and saw it was copper underneath. "Creative in their naming".....yeah right. Outright BS is the truth. Since this is and was clear to everyone, I wonder if they asked you or even paid you to come onto this forum and try to do some "damage control". After all, you were the first person to review the connectors for them and boosted their sales tremendously. And/or maybe you feel your own reviews/reputation were now in question because of their lies. |
@maxima95 - I stand corrected... It was advertised as KLEI PureSilver™ I have to agree - most people reading that might "assume" they were solid silver, simply because they do not understand the significance of the (TM) symbol The TM applies to the name only - i.e. "KLEI PureSilver" - it was used to signify a higher grade of conductivity than KLEI PureCopper™ - it should not be interpreted as a statement of metalurgical content - I do agree it was NOT the wisest choice for a name in either case, Try as you might to persuade otherwise, KLEI’s initial advertising copy was misleading. I am not trying to to "pursuade otherwise" - in my OP I simply brought the fact that the name "Silver Harmony" had been misinterpreted (and why) to everyones attention The "KLEI PureSilver™" was a later development and was also a bad choice of "name". Unfortunately, those names are in place across the many compenies that used the KLEI RCA’s on their cables and getting them to change would be a huge task. KLEI is not the first company to make mistakes like this and it will NOT be the last. Were they deliberately trying to mislead? - I do not believe they were - I do believe they were trying to be "creative" with naming and it was simply a bad decision to use those names. - I agree with Yping - their "passion" got the better of them They have fixed the offending text on their site and would like to move on - I suggest we all do the same Regards - Steve |
It makes no sense for KLE Innovations to mislead their customers as they have such brilliant and high quality products which outperform most other products in the world marketplace. Maybe their initial press release did cause some confusion to customers which is probably why they have since made adjustments on their website, not because they were covering up a lie, as some would believe. After all there’s always room for improvement whether you are renovating a house or building a website.
Maybe some posters out there should realise that inventors have a passion for making the world a better place and find enjoyment in what they are doing through their contributions.
Best to stop all the speculation, lighten up, enjoy life, and enjoy the music. |
Regardless of KLEI’s advertising claims (which I consider to be lies), what ultimately matters is the sound quality, and that’s where I find the KLEI plugs to fall short. I have both Copper Harmony and Absolute plugs. The Absolute was a significant improvement over the Copper Harmony so I haven’t used the Coppers since I first replaced them with the Absolutes. However I have tried the Absolutes on at least a half dozen cables and there is a consistent pattern to the sound. The Absolutes are very smooth sounding with good detail and dynamics but the bass is always soft and lacking in proper weight and impact. The problems with the bass disqualify them as far as I am concerned. I prefer WBT and Audio Note plugs. The Absolutes remain a very good value for the money but they are not Absolutes in sound quality IMO.
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It was advertised as KLEI PureSilver™. Some earlier articles/reviews referred to the Absolute Harmony as pure silver. Posters on forums thought it was pure silver (i.e. silver). Subsequently KLEI changed the information on their site.
Your initial post in this thread did not address the quality of the connectors which was/is not in dispute. It addressed the integrity of KLEI and their copy on the metallurgy - after it was changed.
Try as you might to persuade otherwise, KLEI's initial advertising copy was misleading.
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I believe the RCA's were advertised as PurSilver(TM) - which is just a trade-marked name.
Since then KLEI has removed all reference to p[ure silver
It does not alter the fact the Harmony range of plugs are the best on the market right now. They offer incremental improvements from one model to the next that are discernible.
If only other brands could match this performance we'd have some alternatives.
As for the ETI Silver Bullet - I found the Copper Harmony sounded better.
- The Pure Harmony by comparison to the the ETI Silver Bullet is light years ahead in technological achievement and sound quality.
@yping - i believe you have read enough of my reviews to know exactly what I feel :-)
But - I still believe the Harmony RCA's are the best anyone can put on their IC's and Tone-arm leads
Hope that helps |
When these connectors came out they were indeed advertised as "pure silver". Pure silver means totally silver. The lowest one just had silver plating.....the next on up had "pure silver" ground. The next more expensive had "pure silver hot and ground" and the best ones had even better "pure silver". This is what was said on the website. I have followed these connectors since they first were introduced and love them. But obviously, they were never "pure silver". That was simply a lie. Now the website says nothing about their silver construction.....now that they have been exposed. I think the connectors are great sounding, but why they needed to lie about the construction seems bizarre. |
No, I haven't. I used to be a fan of silver, but I have gotten my systems resolution to the point where silver just doesn't work anymore (it's too much). |
have you tried the harmony plugs? the absolute harmony plugs also need 200-300+ hours.
nice to have choices...
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@yping - rhodium can definitely sound cold in the early parts of the burn-in process, especially within the first 50 or so hours. I have found that you need 200-300+ hours to really burn in rhodium before it settles down. But the end result is absolutely excellent resolution. |
williewonka, it appears that you have compared the copper harmony to the silver bullet, http://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-copper-harmony-rca.html. what are your thoughts? i find rhodium to be a bit cold sounding and i did not think the pure solid silver was machinable without being doped by a small amount of other metals to make the silver harder and machinable (much like gold). i wonder what mathematical modelling has been used in those rcas? i think that i would like the absolute harmony to either those that have mentioned, so i will stick with the absolute harmony. i find that they provide a lively, organic, and more real type of sound. i also like the bananas. |
I have used the older original Eichmann silver bullet plugs. They were nice, but over the years I have moved on to different materials. I have found that silver is not my preference for sonic signature. Silver is good for compensating for a system that is too warm, but it is very easy to go one step too far and then silver will push the upper mids/highs too much and the sound becomes a little artificial. It's a balancing act. I would say ETI is great if you want a pure silver RCA. The Mundorf is likely better because of the 1% gold (it takes the edge off the brightness), but the Mundorf Mconnect silver RCA are $225 for a set of four (best price at Sonic Craft). I have ultimately ended up with all Furutech Rhodium connectors. They can be very expensive, but they are the best. I have found that rhodium will have the speed and resolution of silver, but it sounds natural instead of pushing the upper mids/highs too much. If you don't mind soldering and want good no nonsense RCA, the Furutech FP-126(R) rhodium are $90 for a set of four from Parts Connexion or VH Audio. It's a basic non-locking RCA without set screws or anything fancy, but it uses the Furutech Rhodium plated OCC copper center pin (ground/shield is still copper alloy). The more expensive Furutech rhodium have more features, such as set-screw, locking shell, carbon fiber, etc. The ones with the set screw can be hard to get wires inserted because there is not much space. |
Thank you auxinput. Maybe it is the ETI pure silver I need to upgrade to. Prices I see for the Absolute Harmony are around $130 - but this is still silver-plated copper as I say even if it has more silver plating. So a pure silver RCA plug at $148 does not seem so bad a price, even though expensive. Have you used ETI pure silver? It makes sense I think to upgrade from Copper Harmony to pure silver instead of another silver-plated copper Harmony. I thought for Absolute Harmony that it would be the pure silver one because it is "Absolute". Maybe KLEI make new Harmony plug in pure silver and they can call it "Ultimate Harmony". Joke, but still would be good for them to do.
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KLE RCA plugs are a nice offering if you need something that is copper or silver-plated copper. At $79-109, this should not be looked at as a pure silver conductor. Silver-plated has some advantages to some people, but never as good as pure silver. ETI Research makes the current generation of the original Eichmann bullet plugs. They are offered in both pure copper or pure silver, though the silver option is priced at $148, where it should be. Documented as being machined from 99.99% pure silver rod. In the end, you get what you pay for. |
Mr Wonka if you see this link to original advertising on KLEI site you will see that for Harmony plug for silver, pure and absolute harmony that original advertising says that contact pins use pure silver alloy: http://web.archive.org/web/20140927101434/http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/harmony-plugFor copper harmony it says that is is silver plating over copper and that is true. This is best most honest plug. But others were advertised as pure silver alloy - not as silver plating over copper. Others are not honest plugs. But thank you. You agree that that is more silver plating on other plugs. I learn something. But it is still silver-plating over copper. Like in Copper Harmony. The Copper Harmony is good so why would more silver plating over copper work better? Where is pure silver plug from KLEI? |
Oh Yes, we can ping, ping, ping all day and be triplets! Funny joke. I like what Mr Wonka says (Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is favourite movie). So there is more silver coating over the copper as we move up the through the silver, pure and absolute Harmony plugs? That is a good distinction to make which is not told plainly on the website. But I think sellers do not explain well either: https://www.partsconnexion.com/KLEI-79436.html"Absolute" Harmony Phono RCA Plug Highest Grade - Pure Silver on both Ground and Signal" Suggests to me that the ground and signal pins are pure silver but we know it is not true, as Mr Wonka says. But why not KLEI tell them to stop advertising falsely. |
ypingping, good name and if we there was ypingpingping then we would have a trilogy of ypings.
ypingping,
as williewonka says the literature indicates something very different and each harmony plug sounds different with the absolute harmony being the best performer. this other site has certainly caused some unnecessary confusion and it would appear that they have their own issues to deal with and it would also appear that they don’t use their ears to listen. the suggestion that they all sound the same, and even made the same, is bit ridiculous, imv.
my thoughts are while the copper harmony is excellent, that the absolute harmony is amazing. the silver harmony is better than the copper harmony and the silver harmony would be my choice over the copper harmony. i don’t know how good the classic harmony is but i have found the classic harmony banana to be excellent and quite amazing, even as an adapter, so i suspect that it is also excellent. the pure harmony, well i am not sure, but KLE and others make excellent cables with them.
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@ypingping - the difference between the various models is in the thickness of the silver coating. But it's not just about the thickness of the silver coating - KLE Innovations has complex formulas for each plug that pertains to the construction of the pins and the thickness of the copper as well as the silver coating. I have tried all models of the Harmony RCA and from my ow personal observations... - The Copper Harmony is a good introduction, but - Silver Harmony is my "GO TO" RCA for SPDIF (digital) cables - no need to buy more expensive Pure or Absolute models - they will offer no further improvements in sound for digital signals up to and including 24/192. I have not tried Silver harmony on higher resolutions. - Pure Harmony - this is a puzzle to me, because in my mind, if you are going to purchase the Pure Harmony, you might as well spend a little extra and get the Absolute Harmony for the best possible performance - Absolute Harmony - this is my "GO TO" RCA for all of my analogue cables. It has the best performance of the Harmony Line and well worth their price. I hope that clarifies things If you want to read my personal reviews of the Harmony RCA's... http://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-copper-harmony-rca.htmlhttp://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-silver-harmony-rca.htmlhttp://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-pure-harmony-rca.htmlhttp://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-absolute-harmony-rca.htmlRegards - Steve |
I installed a set on my Duelund 12 ga. speaker wire. They were easy to solder. One connector seemed a little loose in my speaker connection so I used a 9/64" drill bit (shank end) to expand the banana opening. Worked like a champ. |
We at TEO Audio have been using KLE plugs for quite some time and we are very very happy with them. Their performance always punches well above their respective price-points, and batch to batch consistency is spot on. The company is most helpful and the products are very easy to work with.
Highly recommended. |
Yes, I love the KLEI Copper Harmony. Look cheap but work quite good. But I do not understand. If they are all copper underneath as other website shows what is the difference between them all. I do not know - only try the Copper Harmony. But if it shows copper underneath the Pure Harmony and Absolute Harmony I do not see the difference between all these Harmonys. Mr Wonka suggest it is not just plain copper, but I look up alloys of copper and silver and find that no silver-copper alloy looks like copper. So I think that Copper Harmony is the best one to buy. Sound really good. I stick with this one.
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I have no problems or
complaints with them. their Harmony rcas and bananas are amazing and are very easy to use. I also love their ics and scs. they definitely get my vote of excellence.
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I've founf KLE Innovations to be a good upfront company and have no complaints. |
Because of their nylon barrels, the KLEI may look "cheap" in comparison to the gold-plated brass ones used by most other RCA plug makers. But their sound sure isn't! The other good RCA's are the WBT Next Gen, which are similar in design. With them, however, you're paying a lot for aesthetic beauty. Why are those crappy Cardas RCA's the industry standard?! |
Now that's some professional trolling going on with those naysayers. |
+1 Steve, for posting this. |
