Oh, I forgot to ad, that when folks say paper cones are best, I have to go back to pure science and say that they all sound differently when humidity levels change.
That changes the sound greatly if you have good enough upstream gear to show them off. I won't even get into how many horn lovers I know, realize that they often butcher voices and some instruments. I'm ready for the fall out of my last statement, lol. Horns can be very exciting and fun to listen to, but to my ears, I would get fatigued and disinterested over the long haul, but again, that's just me. |
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Old guy, moving from Wilson WP7's to Alexia Series 2. McIntosh system, tube power amp. Focal Utopia headphone rig. Grew up in house with one-off speakers built by Rudy Bozak, a friend of my father. Loved the BW speakers I have owned in the past.
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Gentleman: Don't forget the cabinet construction in your discussion. It is not just drivers that end up in the sound. I owned the Edgarhorn Titan horn system with Seismic Subwoofer for 13 years and it had very vintage drivers which I considered sublime to listen to with SET amplification. Those included the JBL 2441 in the midrange and Bruce's 300hz horn made of solid wood made it sing. The mid bass folded cabinet in mine and the seismic sub. also had JBL/Electrovoice vintage drivers but the cabinets were big and hard to properly brace. The only reason I sold the pair was due to the space in my room. These horns smoked a lot of others out there due to the driver chemistry/cabinet combination. My friends Avantgarde Trios with Bass Horns are hifi in comparison. Point is he likes what they do for him so he wins. I don't care to listen to them. The Gamut speakers excel in sound not only due to quality timed drivers and crossovers but due to the 21 layers of "specific" Baltic wood used to make the cabinets in their top models. The layers are hand glued together. Why not 22 layers or 19? Because 21 sounded the best to the designer. A lot goes into the cabinet for the final result is my point. Drivers are only a part of the overall sound. Gary (gwalt) |
I grew up with the Bozak sound as I live in CT. I remember meeting him as a kid in one of the local stores. The owners was close with him, but didn't sell his speakers. I used to get to hear them all the time though as he was always bringing them in. They'd call me to come listen after school (was on my way home). What folks don't remember is that he designed and built the speakers for the NY Worlds Fair in the early 60's. Pretty cool story. |
I've heard an awful lot of speakers in my time, on account of they get sent to my shop for audition and I hear them at shows as well.
For about 20 years now one of the best I've heard has been the Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T-3.3, which is what I've been playing for most of that time (started as T-3s). They have dual 15" woofers (which cut off at 20Hz) and field-coil magnet structures. The midrange in particular is quite nice- beryllium compression diaphragm with a Kapton surround; very fast and the first breakup is at 35KHz, so very smooth as well. The speakers are also easy to drive, being 16 ohms and 98 db 1 watt/1 meter.
There really isn't anything this speaker can't do. It can handle more power than I can throw at it, can play considerably louder than I ever need it to play and no part of the frequency spectrum is left to imagination. Its also very relaxed and detailed, even at high volume, but is equally comfortable imparting all the music at very low levels too. It is so undistorted that it is a bit disarming how loud its often playing- it certainly does not **sound** loud! Its only when you realized that you have to yell to be heard by someone right next to you that you realize how loud it might be playing.
Yet for all this the speaker is insanely musical. Its not particularly euphonic; instead I find it to be quite neutral, just like real music. It'll be quite a challenger to get them out of my living room- so far nothing is even on the horizon, which is not to say I've not heard other speakers that I could not live with for the rest of my life- I've heard a number of them. This one is simply the best of the crop.
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I'd like to hear the ATC's actively. After hearing what Vandersteen does with a semi active, I would like to hear a fully active one. I don't like Meridian at all. I heard one from Germany that uses ribbons, that didn't do it for me a few years ago. It was fairly expensive (or unfairly to me, lol), but not my cup of tea. I'd kill for a pair of the Vandy 7's with his high passed amp as that's an active system (especially with the new 9 subs) but the amps are in a separate box which is basically what Linn does too (I own the smaller Linn system for the bedroom and don't love it, lol).
I do think that active speakers could have a great future, but too many want to pick and chose their own components in the US so that's probably not going to happen. lol |
Well folks, the one thing we can be sure of is that we all perceive sound differently and thus the wide range of tastes expressed in this thread. Hey, this is why there are so many manufacturers in audio. Although my current speakers (Vandersteen Treo CT with two 2wq subs.) is the sound for me they certainly would not sound optimum to many of you regardless of whether they employ new or old tech.
One absolute in my experience...I ALWAYS learn something about my own set-up after listening to someone else's system. The experience may simply confirm what I thought of my rig or provoke me to investigate what I might do to hear a specific sonic aspect that I just heard elsewhere.
After all, it's not just about the gear it's about how we set it up and tweak it to sound the most musical to us.
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Change the speakers right now. As fast as you can Spend as much as you can on next pair. JBL a great speaker but it's 2017. Don't take this message the wrong way
Also upgrade that DAC
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If my journey ended today I would go with ATC SCM 150 or 200 tower series.
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Um, James, you don't exactly talk that way on the Tekton thread......Just an observation. |
@james_w514
+1 ATC SCM 150 or 200
It took me 20 years to eventually get their top of the line 150 but I enjoyed ATC sound all along from SCM 20 to 100 and ultimately 150. Journey is not necessarily over but someone someday hopefully will eventually make a better speaker... kind of scary that 25 year old technology (with some tweaks) still outperforms everything else, as far as my ears are concerned. |
@ mr_m Why would I discuss my forever speaker on a Tekton thread? no one has asked. I don’t plan to keep the Mini Ulfs for more than a couple of years (or any speaker for that matter) although I could end up keeping them around as a secondary. This doesn’t diminish the amazing product Tekton is manufacturing right now. I just have no plans to settle down with speaker swaps until I am much older. Larger ATC’s have been my end game plan for years. They are the most....honest? sounding speakers I’ve heard. |
James. That's perfectly fine. Just surprised you didn't mention it on that thread. I think other people would have considering how strongly many Tekton owners claim their sound to be superior to so many other high ticket brands. |
JBL S3100 in my room for almost 20 yrs now.. can't imagine better for me and I will keep them till I need smaller for some reason - 68 yrs old now. I have used this JBL with 3 watts, 9 watts, 30 and now 180 watts! Perreault PMF 1850. They all sounded good but the 180 watts takes the prize. Never would have guessed it! |
I'm glad to read some are listening to older speaker designs. Audiophiles would serve their ears well by going back as much as going forward. Personally I'm not nearly as fond of some of the newer designs vs designs that are listener based. Speaking for myself, I much prefer starting with drivers that are basic in design. This means (most of the time) the vibratory value is wide as compared to starting with something that is stuck in a fixed signature that needs to be corrected elsewhere. Give a look to how the driver industry is making their way back to some of the old school basket designs for example. There for a period of time drivers were pretty poor, and very expensive, frankly they were way over built and only sounded good in a few limited situations. People should keep in mind that a complicated crossover means that the drivers are having problems that need to be addressed. I have a simple formula that makes the hobby easy for me. Tune the recorded code to the audio code, along the audio chain, all the way to the room and ears. Two things you will notice. One every listener will have a different setting to their system compared to anyone else. And second, when a recording does not sound right to you, you can variably tune it in to your liking. have a great weekend michael green |
Pretty simple. The world is on a retro. kick as things happening worldwide now are such a downer. I would suggest we should all be careful letting that pervade the pursuit of audio excellence. If you crave that retro. sound, then have at it and enjoy. I prefer the here and now and the advantages that advanced research and development have gifted to the audiophile's pursuit of the sound of live music in our listening rooms.
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I put a nice retro rig right next to my main up to date system. I guess I was on a nostalgia kick thinking back to my earlier days of the hobby. After about a year and a half I became very aware of all the short comings that system possessed. It truly validated all the upgrading I had done all these years and have no regrets.
+1 hifiman5
Cheers,
Tim |
After years of hearing different speakers, I took the recommendation of a friend and test drove a pair of the Ohm Walsh Micro talls. I was so impressed by these that I upgraded to a pair of the 1000's which I am absolutely thrilled with. If I have the chance, I will upgrade to a pair of their 5000's. Great soundstage, amazing presence and totally enjoyable to listen to for hours on end. I will be keeping these speakers forever unless I hear something I think is better. |
Hifiman put it best. Mr Green, you are a manufacturer posting on Audiogon and should have that in your signature or point that out in your post. Just using your name doesn't work. Yes, in your mind, your older designs work nicely and that's awesome. I would love to listen to my system vs yours. Nearly any manufacturer from years past has upgraded many, if not all their components to better ones that technology offers us today in order to give better sound. I too love some of my older gear, but I would never say that they sound as good as comparable gear of today (what today's price would be. hope I said that correctly).
I actually worked with ProAc directly when I needed new drivers, because their foam surrounds all failed after 15 years. They didn't make those drivers anymore, so they gave me their newer ones that didn't have the foam surrounds. They rebuilt my crossovers to match the drivers with top of the line components and that included better internal wiring also. When I got them back and burned them in, the sound was worlds better in every way. I was just floored. I kept them for another 8 years or so. Until I heard the Vandersteen 's and their carbon technology. So much smoother, more extended, more detailed, just better in every way compared to older Vandersteen designs that I wasn't in love with. The only thing that changed over the years was the state of the art technology that Richard uses. Even speakers that I would never own, sound better today with the new tech they use. Many like living in the past and that's cool for many. Just agreeing to disagree, but the point is that you are still trying to sell your gear.
Yes, you should be proud of your business and think it's the best. I have to ask, when was the last time you played with new, high end capacitors or resistors or diodes or.... When was the last time you tried a carbon fiber tweet and midrange in your speakers? When was the last time you tried..... If you have done all of these things like Vandersteen, Magico, B&W and others have done over the years to evolve, then that's great, but I doubt that you have. I do respect your ears as they are yours, but many of us disagree.
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