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Journey ending speakers

Listening to to my  stereo last night thinking about what upgrade I may do in the future. May upgrade my CD player or change phono cart or a new arm? But one of the things I will never change is my speakers. My journey has ended with the speakers I have now. Are you like me and have your forever speakers? Oh mine are a set of 30 year old 4 way JBL  Studio Monitors 4345s.
ricpan

Showing 6 responses by ctsooner

ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
I just got the speakers I've wanted for a few years now, the Vandersteen Quatro's.  Will they be my forever speakers?  Possibly, but there have been so many great advances in materials over the years as well as manufacturing, that the newer stuff is so much better than the older gear.  Not saying your 30 year old speakers aren't great for you.  Your ears are the only thing that matter in the equation.  I'm just saying that I hear what properly implemented carbon fiber has done for drivers.  Newer resistors and caps.  Better internal wiring.  Being able to measure internal resonance in cabinets and choosing the right thickness and or materials used in the cabinet all change the sound and usually for the best.

Those are MY reasons why I ended up with the Vandersteen Quatro's, but I can't say that I'll have them for life.  I can say that I usually own a pair of speakers for a minimum of 10 years on average.  I only got the Treo's because I could afford them, but I knew I'd sell in a couple of years to upgrade to either Quatro's or something else if I liked them better.  After listening to over 50 speakers, I chose the Quatro's and had them painted in Audi Havana Black.  LOVE THEM and that's all that matters.  
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Oh, I forgot to ad, that when folks say paper cones are best, I have to go back to pure science and say that they all sound differently when humidity levels change.  

That changes the sound greatly if you have good enough upstream gear to show them off.  I won't even get into how many horn lovers I know, realize that they often butcher voices and some instruments.  I'm ready for the fall out of my last statement, lol.  Horns can be very exciting and fun to listen to, but to my ears, I would get fatigued and disinterested over the long haul, but again, that's just me.
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
analogluvr326 posts08-05-2017 8:24amCtsooner  i'm glad you love your vandersteens  but I had to chime in and correct your statements. All these so-called advances in materials are mostly bunk.   A good old paper driver is still king for musicality. You can assemble a system with eighty-year-old technology that will sound better than everything at the shows. Now I'm not disputing the fact that material advances have made better capacitors and resistors but as far as in speaker technology I'm not buying.
My system consists of a pair of Oris horns with Fostex drivers and separate tweeters.  I have a pair of TAD 15 inch woofers that are separately by amped.  The horns and tweeters are run by a western electric 300 B clone and the woofers are run by a sumo Polaris solid-state amp.
 I am very familiar with Vander Steen sound  having on the pair for numerous years and I have heard your speakers  numerous times as well. I'm sure your system sounds very very good and it will probably do a few things better than mine but likewise my system will do a few things better than yours. If all of these  advances were so great your modern system should completely obliterate mine with it's 80-year-old technology.  Rest assured that would not be happening.
 I feel the need to try and correct these types of statements because I feel that they are driven by marketing simply to cause people to spend endless amounts of money and never exit the merry-go-round.

There have been so many versions of the Quatro that its hard to know which one you  heard.  You are happy with what you have, so often times folks aren't out auditioning or when they do, it's not seriously done.  Materials have changed speakers a lot.  To my ears, it's easy to notice the nuance in music.   Most people who love the arts and music are not analytical.   This often explains the wide diversity in especially expensive speakers.  

To my ears, as well as many others who have heard all my systems, they hear a very large positive difference between the Quatro's, the Treos, formerly the Proac Supertowers (my original) as well as when they were rebuilt with new drivers and crossovers.  

No need for you to correct anything I posted as I stand fully behind my thoughts.  These are things that I and other have heard in my system.  Going from the ceramic coated tweeter in the Treo to the carbon fiber is a major step in dynamics, a more realistic presentation and much more detail.  

The other thing is that changing just one to a few components or even all of them in a crossover, can give major improvements in a speakers sound and they are positive if implemented correctly.  I feel strongly that Richard Vandersteen has done this as he auditions every single change in his speakers.  He isn't hand making his carbon fiber cones just for marketing purposes I assure you.  

I love hearing folks who love their older gear. I too love a few items I still own, but newer can and often is better to so many that it keeps the industry moving forward.

ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
I grew up with the Bozak sound as I live in CT. I remember meeting him as a kid in one of the local stores.  The owners was close with him, but didn't sell his speakers.  I used to get to hear them all the time though as he was always bringing them in.  They'd call me to come listen after school (was on my way home).  What folks don't remember is that he designed and built the speakers for the NY Worlds Fair in the early 60's.  Pretty cool story.
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
I'd like to hear the  ATC's actively.  After hearing what Vandersteen does with a semi active, I would like to hear a fully active one.  I don't like Meridian at all.  I heard one from Germany that uses ribbons, that didn't do it for me a few years ago.  It was fairly expensive (or unfairly to me, lol), but not my cup of tea.  I'd kill for a pair of the Vandy 7's with his high passed amp as that's an active system (especially with the new 9 subs) but the amps are in a separate box which is basically what Linn does too (I own the smaller Linn system for the bedroom and don't love it, lol).  

I do think that active speakers could have a great future, but too many want to pick and chose their own components in the US so that's probably not going to happen. lol
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Hifiman put it best.  Mr Green, you are a manufacturer posting on Audiogon and should have that in your signature or point that out in your post.  Just using your name doesn't work.  Yes, in your mind, your older designs work nicely and that's awesome. I would love to listen to my system vs yours.  Nearly any manufacturer from years past has upgraded many, if not all their components to better ones that technology offers us today in order to give better sound.  I too love some of my older gear, but I would never say that they sound as good as comparable gear of today (what today's price would be. hope I said that correctly).  

I actually worked with ProAc directly when I needed new drivers, because their foam surrounds all failed after 15 years.  They didn't make those drivers anymore, so they gave me their newer ones that didn't have the foam surrounds.  They rebuilt my crossovers to match the drivers with top of the line components and that included better internal wiring also.  When I got them back and burned them in, the sound was worlds better in every way.  I was just floored.  I kept them for another 8 years or so. Until I heard the Vandersteen 's and their carbon technology.  So much smoother, more extended, more detailed, just better in every way compared to older Vandersteen designs that I wasn't in love with. The only thing that changed over the years was the state of the art technology that Richard uses.  Even speakers that I would never own, sound better today with the new tech they use.  Many like living in the past and that's cool for many.  Just agreeing to disagree, but the point is that you are still trying to sell your gear.

Yes, you should be proud of your business and think it's the best.  I have to ask, when was the last time you played with new, high end capacitors or resistors or diodes or....  When was the last time you tried a carbon fiber tweet and midrange in your speakers?   When was the last time you tried.....  If you have done all of these things like Vandersteen, Magico, B&W and others have done over the years to evolve, then that's great, but I doubt that you have.  I do respect your ears as they are yours, but many of us disagree.  


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