EVERYTHING you like about the JBL is EXACTLY WHY they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as the Harbeth M40.2's(never heard 40.1's)..The JBL is designed to impress in a short demo.Bass has slam but tonal purity & definition are NON EXISTENT!Midrange is honky & thread bare,treble brittle/hard/sharp to extremes..They remind me of the original Sennheiser HD800...
With a good Class A amplifier NOTHING competes with the Harbeth! |
@ gte357s, The jbl is one word -GREAT. For all the things you said in your post, about the 4343. I concur. They, (exhibit) great vocal reproduction. I do not have the harbeth 40.1.. :-) |
You have run into something never measured: microdynamics. British speakers are ever so slightly compressed
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@ fstein, Yes, they are compressed, but not all (tannoy) will do microdynamics. Well my 15 dmt monitors did.:-) |
I think what makes them so different are:
1) size of the driver
the 15” driver really can produce that slam. I also listen to a vintage Tannoy with 15” driver and can produce the same slam. Then I compared to my Spatial Audio X5 with a 12” mid range and 12” bass drivers, it can produce a similar slam but not as much. But Harbeth only has a 8” mid range and a 12” woofer, it simply can’t move as much air to produce that slam.
2) speaker efficiency
in the audition, we tried driving the JBL with a 4 watt 2A3 amp and a 8 watt 300b amp, both can drive the big JBL no problem. For Harbeth, I am driving it with a 75W McIntosh MC275. I believe 75W is still not enough to drive the Harbeth for that type of music.
Definitely they are very different, and I didn’t spent a lot of time on the JBL. Since they are both studio monitors, I find it interesting that they are so different. But since they are so different, logically, one of them would sound closer to the “real” live music, or more accurate. Which one is more accurately producing the music? |
GTE. Once you listen to one of the large JBL speakers, you realize that most other speakers compress the hell out of the music. I am sure the Harbeth is a very accurate speaker, very flat in response. I have a pair of modified JBL 4333B's. They play most everything well, with a lot of low level definition and clarity. I have owned B&W 802s in the past. They were very accurate, but seriously compressed. My personal preference is the large JBL.
Regards,
John
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@ gte357s, I concur, With what you say about the 4343 monitors. My jbl 4435 monitor have better and lower bass. And higher efficiency and are two way. They are more coherent and image better. Efficiency is the germ missing in audiophile speakers. (IMHO) But like all things in audio its (interpretation.) :-) |
I think I got a bit crazy. I already have a pair of Harbeth 40.1 and Spatial Audio X5; but now I want the JBL! But beside money, I also don’t have space to put three pairs of speakers, LoL.
i need to bring some female vocal to try out the JBL more to compare the mid range. |
If you get the JBLs don't be in a rush to rehome your Harbeths.That dynamic front row center presentation is fun and exciting but ultimately can be fatiguing.I sold my exciting dynamic speakers and went with Harbeths.Occasionally I miss the other speakers but they were nowhere near as satisfying as the Harbeths are.Just something to keep in mind.
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The JBL is like a Rollercoaster. In your face exhilarating, fun, but rocks your brains and you feel fatigued after riding them for awhile. So depends what you want. If you want serious engaging vocal and musical reproduction that you can listen to for hours, keep the Harbeth. If that doesn’t float your boat then look elsewhere and JBL is as good as any. |
These two speakers are both very different, but both great in their own ways. It's wonderful if you can afford both and use them according to mood, but if not, you need to choose the one that meets your sonic priorities most closely. |
never owned harbeth but i encourage you to go for the 4343. i won 4344 and have installed new xover and bi-amped them. the sound is huge, powerful, resolving and sweet with right equipment. great stereo and great movie 2.1 system. i love it and highly recommend. 15 inch woofers for life! |
if you like 4343 you'll LOVE 4344 ;-) but you need to bi amp the 4344 to maximize performance. or depending on what you listen to, 4345 even, 18" woofer! |
Ninety % of my listening is classical --big orchestra stuff: Mahler,Beethoven, Shostakovich, etc.,through Van Alstine tube preamp, the iconic all powerful Proton 1200 amp,And Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Very dramatic through the Maggies,but massed violins always have a dry gritty edge. Have tried other amps and speakers-- have a Musical Fidelity M6sPRX amp on the way.But I keep hearing about Harbeth.Very expensive,many different models.Appreciate any feedback.Also thinking about the Magnepan 1.7i. Thanks.
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6119:
Bypass 1.7i. Save for 3.7i. The true ribbon rules. But not clear why this is posted on thread comparing JBL and Harbeth??
When I was a young audio novice we talked about the West Coast sound (JBL, Altec) vs. the New England sound (AR, KLH). This is the same conversation as that was. Basically, as I see it, it’s really about whether your listening keys in on the sound of live classical music, unamplified and heard at some distance, or if you are keying in on music created in studios with multiple close-mic tracks. The latter favors large cone area higher sensitivity speakers, the former favors smooth frequency response, freedom from peaks, and artful driver blending...all hallmarks of the New (and old) England school.
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that is a very interesting perspective crustycoot
i drifted towards jbl rather than standard drivers and i listen to studio recorded music in the main. something about standard drivers that does not do it for me and i do not listen to classical. |
@crustycoot, interesting observation. There's definitely a similarity in the sonic presentation (which you so aptly described) of old 'new england' speakers (like AR) and certain new 'old england' speakers (like Harbeth). I would say Maggies are also examples of this type of presentation, albeit using totally different design and technology. I have Maggie 20.7 and AR11 speakers in the same room and although they're driven by different systems they essentially sound very much alike.
@6119: agree with crustycoot. Go for the 3 series if you can stretch it, as there's really no substitute for Maggie's true ribbon. But make sure you have sufficient power to drive them properly.
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Before you dump your Harbeth's you should read this: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/harbeth-monitor-40-2.25222/Also, and just my opinion, the MC275 is not a good match for the Harbeth. IMHO tubes cannot bring out the best in Harbeth speakers. I tried 3 different tube amps with my original 40's and the SHL5+ and they did not work for me in my system. You will find plenty of folks who will disagree with me. YMMV. If you have a way to borrow a good solid state amp I urge you to try it before you make a decision on the Harbeth. Harbeth uses QUAD SS amps to voice their speakers. Good Luck! |
@joey54 wow, that is a looong post in the link.
No, I am not thinking to get rid of the Harbeth 40.1, at least not for now. But I think the Spatial X5 sounds more similar to JBL. Both are efficient speakers, but the X5 is open baffle, while the JBL has 15” driver. If I am going to get the JBL, I think I will sell the Spatial. But the open baffle offers excellent live music feeling, and it is very good also. |
crustycoot; thanks for the input. My Proton d1200 can put out several hundred watts per channel. there' a youtube about it. but can i put a 3.7i in an 11x12 ft. room? very thick carpeting,llive walls. back and front walls sheetrock, side wall bifold wood closet doors and wood blinds over windows.i understand the 3.7i doesn't have the so called "maggie grain" which i sometimes think I hear......Also I was on this thread because i have been interested in Harbeth speakers.
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Here's a response that's kind of fits into the thread.
I had the Harbeth C7s for a year as I put away my Klipsch KG5.2 .That's all I listened to were the Harbeth and they were nice , I guess .Then I dragged out my old Klipsch and , wow , there is was , the sound came alive , grabbed my attention , it was so engaging .
Sold the Harbeth and never looked back .
For those that say the sound is fatiguing with speakers like JBL and Klipsch , all speakers are
fatiguing
as you can only listen for short periods at a time , my experience .
I'll need to turn the music off at some point for a piece of mind , quiet time .I feel really sorry for those that work where music plays the entire time , that seriously fatiguing
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I did some more listening, and this time compared the JBL L300. The L300 is home hi-fi version of 4333. At the beginning, I thought it will sound similar to the 4344. At the beginning, I feel, ok, same JBL kind of sound. Than we switch to 4344. We played the “She Never Knew Me” by Don Williams. After a couple notes of the vocal, me and my friend both turn our head and look at each other with a shock. It is huge different between the L300 and 4344. The 4344 is much smoother and softer.
Then I went home and test my Harbeth again with the same songs. I can say my Harbeth sounds thinking, or having more density. But that 4344 is no where bright or fatiguing.
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What would be perfect is to be able to own several speakers and rotate them in and out.Maggies,Spacials,Klipsch,JBLs,Harbeths,etc.Each brand has something special that the other ones don't offer.No fair that we have to decide on one:-) |
prime rib vs maine lobster |
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