I've been seriously into Jazz since I seriously became interested in high end gear (about 4 years). I listen primarily to jazz and primarily to Miles, Monk, Coltrane, and Rollins. I have many of the classic discs by these guys as well as some discs by Hank Mobley, Joe Henderson, Herbie Hancock, Gene Ammons, and Wayne Shorter. I have discs by Clifford Jordan, Andrew Hill, Dexter Gordon and Eric Dolphy. I think of these guys primarily as hard bop players. I also now that their playing spanned the genres of bebop, hard bop, and post bop. But as a jazz novice, I wonder, do the jazz classics by these artists generally fall into the hard bop genre or a combination of these other genres? Thanks for your insights.
Be bop developed first in the 1940's. It's signature was fast tempo, bass line a run of quater notes 123412341234 etc., drums keep the beat with the ride cymbal, horns usually repeat the "head" a couple of times often in unison, the melody is then not emphasised but rather harmonic interactions and rapid changes. Hard bop begining in the early 50's had more varied playing by the rythm section and introduced elements of the blues and even funk into it. Cool jazz fused bop with swing and brought more melodic elements back into it. Post bop late 50's and 60's began the march towards free form jazz. Most of the people you mentioned played to one degree or another all of these styles. - Jim
Let's see... in addition to the Bebop there's the A-bop, C-bop, D-bop and re-bop... Now that Starbucks sells music they have the half-caf grande latte-bop... but seriously folks - most of the players you've mentioned would cringe at any attempts to pidgeon hole them - I'm cringing too. You're missing Mingus and Ornette - throw in some John Scofield for good measure and you'll have a quite a collection.
Gdoodle: I happen to be listening to Mingus as I type this, and I have almost all of John Scofield's discography in my collection. He happens to be my favorite guitarist. I did not post all the jazz I enjoy listening to. I don't have any Ornette Coleman yet. I haven't heard much of his work and not been grabbed by what I have heard. No need to cringe Gdoodle, I'm not trying to pigeonhole these artists- I'm trying to understand these genres and how one differentiates them. I greatly enjoy what I hear; I'd like to be able to tell the differences as I move hear these genres. Re-reading my post, I think I did a poor job of communicating that. It would be slighting their art to try to pigeonhole them. That is definitely not it for me.
Hey that's cool - sounds like we like a lot of the same stuff. I was just trying to add a little humor (very little). Can someone really define a genre in words - withOUT just listing a bunch of players? I think at best you'll settle for is "periods" of music. I guess I learned a lot about jazz by reading album liner notes - wikipedia has a long entry for bebop and hard bop - and lists of musicians that might answer your question.
Check out Ornettes early stuff - "The Shape of Jazz to Come". Scofled is one of my faves - seen him 6-8 times...
Foster 9, Check out some Bobby Hutcherson. His offerings ALWAYS have the big name jazz Artists as guests from Freddie Hubbard to Herbie Hancock. It's very soothing jazz,something about the vibes that strikes a chord with me.
Qdrone; I'm not a fan of the vibes although I have several discs where they are played (Milt Jackson among others). Bianci27, yes, I already have some Cannonball and Dexter Gordon. Rhljazz, I never listened to Grant Green, or Nat Adderly, but love Donald Byrd's work with the Blackbirds in the 70's. I will check out some of the earlier work of Donald Byrd.
When I think of Hard Bop I think of Coltrane Blue Trane and lots of the Blue Note records from that period in the mid to late 50s, mainly East Cost players.
Bebop, Diz and Bird in the 40s.
Post Bop, 60s Wayne Shorter, Herbbie Hancock, 60s Coltrane.
Thanks Davemitchell: I recently purchased Blue Trane on SACD. As usual for Trane, it's incredible. From your breakdown, as I thought, my collection which is primarily Miles, Coltrane, Rollins and the other greats I mentioned, from the time frame of mid to late 50's. I seem to lean more towards Hard Bop as my Jazz preference.
You can definately define styles without simply listing artists. There are several good books on understanding jazz styles. In fact listing artists is not really very useful. Miles for example began in bop, helped create cool jazz (birth of cool), recorded one of the first real hard bop ( walkin) albums, had the most significant contribution to modal jazz (kind of blue), mastered post bop ( miles smiles), and led the vangaurd of fusion. The very best place to start in my opinion is to read 'Louis Armstrongs New Orleans' which came out recently. For anyone interested in the genesis of American popular music , styles ,influences ,and a whos who from Jelly Roll Morton to Robert Johnson read the book. It helped me see why the blues ran so deep in Armstong ,Bird,and Young but not Dizzy or Hawk . Just my opinions as always. - Jim
Interesting Aldavis. I have Miles "Walkin","Kind of Blue" (seems like everyone has it),and "Miles Smiles", which is my favorite Miles disc. On the other hand, my wife has "Birth of the Cool", which repersents "cooljazz," but I'm not a fan of cool jazz, even though "Birth" is considered one of Miles' seminal recordings. The recording has always sounded like ancient jazz to me; slow and plodding, kinda of "Big Bandish." To coin an old 50's and 60's term "square."
Foster 9, I understand what you are saying about Birth of cool. Remember it was quite early. Check out the ballads on "workin", "steamin","cookin", "relaxin", and "round about midnight". Terrific small group sessions with strong cool overtones. Some of the very best jazz period. Also ,as an example, though not a "cool" recording listen to Dexter Gordons "Doin Alright" track one "I was doin alright" and hear the obvious 'swing'. This reintroduction of swing is a cool element in an otherwise hot performance. It is amazing. - Jim
All this is great stuff - the Rudy Van Gelder's Blue Note redbook re-releases of jazz artists recorded in the late fifties and early sixties are terrific. Don't miss Lee Morgan's "Sidewinder" or Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers' "Moanin'".
Guys, thanks for the responses. I really don't have anyone to discuss jazz with since my uncle and I live in different cities now. If you don't have these, I highly recommend, 2 box sets, "Miles Davis, Seven Steps, The Complete Columbia Recordings, 1963-1964," and "Miles Davis and John Coltrane,The Complete Columbia Recordings." Also a simply outstanding value on Amazon.com is "The Great Thelonius Monk" 3CD Set, they were selling this a while back for only $8 plus shipping. Now I see they've upped the price to $19.99.
Aldavis, I have Miles' "Round Bout Midnight," "Steamin," and thought I had "Walkin" but I was mistaken. I've listened briefly to the others you mention from that time frame, I'll have to check them out again. Knownothing,
Knownothing, I have Blakey's "Moanin" and can also recommend, his "Caravan," which I got as a JVC 20bit k2, which are usually high quality re-masters. I have many of the Blue Note RVG recordings, including "the Sidewinder," by Lee Morgan. My only problem with some of the Blue Note RVG discs is the recording/Re-mastering quality, but many are still "must-haves" for any real Jazz enthusiast.
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