I've toyed with the idea of looking into jazz. Not sure why. Not sure what I'm looking for. Maybe just something to sound good on my system. I realize jazz is a broad category but much of what I hear I have not been attracted to. Don't ask me what I've heard. What I'd like is a recommendation of two or three albums to start with. (I know that's insane)
And since I've given next to nothing to go on I'll point out a few things that I do like that might help narrow it down some maybe.
Jazz-like stuff I do like: Steely Dan. Almost all of their stuff. Van Morrison's jazz influenced stuff like Astral Weeks. I like blues. Delta and hill country hard core blues.
I like a wide variety of rock from heavy metal, to prog rock to classic R&B. Does any of that help? I know this is a crazy request but if I could get some recommendations I'll at least have somewhere to start. Not looking for specific recordings yet. Just content. When I find what I like I'll research the best recordings. Thanks for any possible advice. George
Of course, I am aware of what he has played since, the success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and serious listeners. This controversy seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years.
And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. there must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than kenny g on his chosen instruments. it would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.
n80, You have to remember that Miles was a big time Herion and Cocaine addict. I think that shows on Big Fun , Bitches Brew and Live Evil. Actually , I would say that it influenced a lot of his albums. I think that was a lot of the reason for his abstract stuff, let alone that there is only so much you can do with a Trumpet as the Lead. I recently watched a special on Miles Davis "Birth Of The Cool" It is a Stunning film or Documentary IMO. I actually teared a little at the end ... so sad .Highly Recommended !
Unless I missed seeing the recommendation, nobody mentioned:
Pat Metheny,
particularly the old Pat Metheny Group.
This surprises me. Very approachable music on most albums. I believe that some of his compositions will become jazz standards and it is very interesting to hear his songs covered by other artists.
Some good advice here, but N80 I’ll go contrary to some of it. If you’re new to Jazz skip the Ken Burns series, at least for a while. The only thing you need to know from that whole series is the Wynton Marsalis quip about Jazz “it doesn’t come to you; you have to go to it.” A good radio station that plays a variety of Jazz is indispensable. And lastly, seek out those who pushed the boundaries of their instruments and music.
Damn. That’s brutal. Kenny still made bank, though.
In my estimation, Kenny G. at best played elevator music. He had a real niche, but it wasn’t in jazz. He sold tons of recordings and made tons of money but it wasn’t from jazz fans. I have thousands of jazz recordings, and there’s not one Kenny G. among them.
There was that one night on the old Arsenio Hall show though ...
By the way, are any of you fans of this guy? I am ...
I don't remember if anyone has mentioned Harry Connick, Jr. Is that jazz? I have a couple of his albums but not sure if they're jazz or not. I have them because I got them for my wife. I almost never listen to them. The ones I have seem more pop oriented.
^^^ Connick Jr's. CDs are well recorded. I have several of them. He's a good jazz pianist and ballad singer. Try the one disc (I forget which one it is) where it is just his trio. Nice jazz.
I mentioned the Harry Connick Jr. Trio album Lofty’s Roach Soufflé. It is an awesome Jazz instrumental album. It’s a fine listen and maybe can even get your wife on board as well.
Re: Kenny G. I’ve never been a fan of his BUT....before he became Kenny G his name was Kenny Gorelick and was a charter member of the original Jeff Lorber Fusion Band. On the 1st few Lorber records, Kenny Gorelick played his butt off!
^^^ Like a lot of jazz musicians, Kenny G.went over to the dark side to make money. You'd think he would have broke loose once in a while to appease us jazz guys. I agree ... he could really play when he turned off all of the electronics and the drenched in digital reverb recordings.
@oregonpapa said: "Like a lot of jazz musicians, Kenny G.went over to the dark side to make money" I think this is true in a lot of genres. Lots of serious rock bands abandoned their core stuff to make ballads. They all made tons of money on cheesy, monotonous ballads and virtually none of them ever recover artistically. Others, like ZZ Top make a killer album like Eliminator and every album after it sounds exactly the same. It would be hard to turn your back on the kind of money that vapid vacuous pop-ified music can offer. I do remember a funny quote from Huey Lewis that after being a cult band on the local scene that they were accused of "selling out" when they got popular. He said they had been trying to sell out for years. Listening to Harry Connick, Jr.'s Lofty's Roach Souflle' and it is not bad. @nicoticoWe have watched two episodes of Jazz and I'm enjoying it. It really is more about the people than the music, and that's fine. I don't mind that. Its good to know some of the back story.
n80, as I suggested earlier there are a multitude of styles/types of jazz. That is what makes suggestions to a "newbie" so difficult, and the subject so baffling to the newbie themselves. Many, many great suggestions have been made here and sampling those can be as good an introduction as any.
After my post I considered suggesting the Ken Burns series, but with so much music to listen to I wasn't sure if you'd be willing to watch that much video? If you watch more you'll certainly find more to explore.
Contrary to many others here I don't consider KOB a good "introduction" album for someone starting out in jazz. It is one of the best ever recorded but is subtle and complex enough it will not be appreciated by many newbies. To your credit you've stated you like it. That suggests you can skip past many of the more "lightweight" suggestions.
So all I'll offer at this point is based on what you've sampled that you do like, continue exploring other recordings by those artists. You are bound to run into some dead ends but that's OK, just try more recordings. With that you'll find side men/women with your preferred artists who are interesting and that will lead you to their recordings. And so on and so on.
@pryso Thanks. I'm not sure that I like Kind of Blue for the right reasons. I'm sure there is depth there that I have not explored or even recognized is there. But, when you are initially drawn to something it is a lot easier to dig deep than when there isn't that initial appeal. I also like classical music. Not an aficionado by any stretch, but do understand that there is depth and complexity and can sometimes recognize and appreciate it. So that might help some.
If the first (or earliest) bottle of wine I ever drink is a $500 vintage bottle, it is not the same as if I drink that same bottle after having experienced many other bottles over a long period of time (responsibly, of course). Enjoy the wine (or music).
Kind of Blue is an interesting recording. I have multiple copies, including an original "six-eye" stereo version that is the best of the lot among the ones I have, including Japanese reissues. I found it in a thrift store back in the ’80s for fifty cents. Those were the days.
Listen to it and see if you agree with me on this ...
When the first cut starts out, the album sounds like a good studio recording. Good, but not that inspired. Sort of like the musicians were there to collect a paycheck.
Miles takes the lead, then Coltrane comes on second. THEN, Cannonball Adderley takes his turn and plays with an inspiration that is totally infectious to everyone else on the album. He played like Bird reincarnated. From that point on, it becomes one of the greatest jazz albums of all time.
My take has always been that if it weren’t for Cannonball Adderley touching the souls of the other players, and subsequently the end listener, Kind of Blue would have been just another good jazz album.
Your thoughts?
Frank
PS: If you like Kind of Blue, you’ll want this one too:
1. Senor Blues - Horace Silver 2. Decision - Sonny Rollins 3. Three O'Clock In The Morning - Dexter Gordon 4. Blues March - Art Blakey 5. Wadin' - Horace Parlan 6. The Rumproller - Lee Morgan 7. Somethin' Else - Cannonball Adderley 8. Blue Bossa - Joe Henderson 9. Watermelon - Herbie Hancock
l really like your observations about Cannonball’s influence on the whole album. Thanks for sharing. I had to respond to your post, because I have always felt for a long time that someone besides Cannonball (and other than Miles) had that exact same pervasive influence on the outcome of the whole album that you refer to. For me that person is Bill Evans. I like to think of Bill as Miles’ “silent partner” on that album who could deserve equal credit with Miles. I’d have a hard time explaining why I feel that way; I just do. But your view about Cannonball is just as valid, and interesting to me.
Another extremely easy album to listen to is by the Massimo FaraòTrio called How My Heart Sings. Beautiful Piano playing by Massimo and very easy going. The song that hooked me on the album is called Easy Living. I would also seek out the Jazz Shepard’s YouTube channel. He gives some fun historical context on all things Jazz and plays samples of the music while he’s talking. Very interesting. He talks about different artists, Jazz forms, labels and all sorts of stuff. That’s where I heard the Philly Joe Jones album Philly Joe’s Beat I’m listening to right now.
Noticed something interesting when I went to the dynamic range database and looked up Kind of Blue. There was not a single recording listed that suffered from any significant dynamic range reduction. Even recent production CDs have excellent DR.
If this is true across the genre it might be THE motivating factor that keeps me plugging away at this.
It’s kind of amazing since virtually all rock releases since the mid 90s or so are plagued with horrible DR recordings including new bands releasing music right now! Even bands that pride themselves on production quality.
By your comment, it is clear to me that you not only know how to listen, but you also know what to listen for. That, in my opinion, is what leads to the enjoyment and understanding of jazz.
In trying to explain jazz to the uninitiated, I've made the comment several times on these threads that so much of the music exists between the notes. Bill Evans certainly was a master of that. So was Miles. The key is to recognize that and to learn to listen for it.
Wow, amazing number of responses on this thread! I could suggest two paths. Slow transition, say something like Santana to Chick Corea to Weather Report to Miles Davis or straight to JAZZ with Miles Davis Kind of Blue. I think Sonny Rollins is readily accessible also. Ben Webster...many paths to follow.
Woody Allens movies have great soundtracks and if you like Woodys movies its a great way to discover some great music otherwise his soundtracks are available seperately
If you use Qobuz, check out some of their playlists and see if there are some artists you like. Then go look them up on allmusic which will show you similar artists that you can then go check out.
@n80 - I'm happy that you are enjoying David Sanborn's - "Another Hand". I don't think it is/was a very popular album. Somehow I heard it back when it came out back in 1991. Been enjoying it ever since.
To be honest, David Sanborn is not for jazz purists. He’s similar to Kenny G., in that his music is drenched in artificial digital reverb. The naturally beautiful tonality of the saxophone gets lost in the fog.
I’m not knocking anyone who likes it, as we all have our individual tastes in music. In fact, I think I know what audiophiles like about all of the reverb ... It gives an illusion of a larger, deeper sound stage. But it is totally artificial.
As an experiment, pick up some really good mono jazz recordings from the 1950s, and you will hear what I’m alluding to.
Yes, I did. I listened to every cut on the album on Spotify.
I’m not saying that David Sanborn plays like Kenny G. What I’m saying is that David Sanborn drenches his music in reverb like Kenny G.
Did you take the time to listen to the mono recordings in my last post? They will give you an idea of what I’m alluding to. Every one of them is in my personal collection. If you can find the Jutta Hipp album, do yourself a favor and buy it. The sound is spectacular. Same with the Miles Davis "Round Midnight" album. They’re in the room with you. :-)
And again, it is nothing personal, as I am not knocking anyone else’s taste in music or recordings.
@oregonpapa - Sorry, I was editing my post and just decided to delete it. I certainly understand what you're saying about the sound of the sax on "another Hand" when compared to a classic mono recording of sax. Valid point for sure.
I like "Another Hand" for the melancholy tone it carries throughout most of the record. A big part of that sound is Bill Frisell's guitar. Here's my favorite track on the record:
^^^ Now we're talkin'... I love this, especially Joey Defrancesco. The man plays a mean Hammond B3. Houston Person's sax playing is so soulful. What a combo.
Thanks for posting this, reubent. I just bought the CD off of Ebay. :-)
@reubent@oregonpapa Since you mentioned Houston Person, him and Ron Carter have a beautifully recorded album called Remember Love. The double bass on that album is excellent. Excellent album all the way through really.
I already had a few of Joey's CDs. After I bought the one with Houston Person last night, I spent the rest of the night on Spotify listening to his various music. Wow! I didn't realize how much music this guy has recorded. Plenty of guest artists on his various recordings too. Lot's of live concerts too. Thanks again ...
This talk of Joey got me thinking about genres of jazz that may be accessible and enjoyable to those who prefer something closer to a rock jam session with a dash of funkyness thrown in. Some of the organ trios could rock their butts off. Very gritty and in a good way. Give a listen to some of the Jack McDuff material with George Benson from the early-mid 60s. Or from 1969 I believe "Moon Rappin" with Richard Davis laying down some very funky bass.
@oregonpapa said: "To be honest, David Sanborn is not for jazz purists."
Of course, at this point I am not a jazz purist so that does not make a big difference to me. I do seem to recall hearing about Sanborn, in the 80's maybe, as being more pop oriented like Kenny G. But at that time jazz was not on my radar other than the bits I heard from Steely Dan.
However, the main thing I always got from Kenny G was cheese. I paid no attention to his ability on the instrument, it was just that the music seemed shallow and cheesy to me.
I have never heard Sanborn at all until this album. And while I have nothing to say about recording techniques or his proficiency on the instrument, the songs on Another Hand do not strike me as pablum. They seem mature and thoughtful. That's pretty much all I can say about that.
I did listen to the links you posted regarding 50's vs 40's (vs now).
On my system the recordings from the 50's sound pure, clean, precise, sharp, well defined, natural. I do perceive some sound stage but not much. Maybe all in my head. It has a shape but it is not deep. The 40's recording sounds like it is in a can, far far away.
Compared to the 1950's recordings the modern recordings, Marcus Miller M2 for instance (aside from the heavy bass) seem to have much more sound stage and it is rounder and deeper. There seems to be more richness for lack of a better word, maybe that is the same as depth. However, they do not sound as clean and crisp as the 50s ones you shared.
I might be totally wrong about all that. I'm totally new to jazz and fairly new to serious hi-fi. Just giving it a shot.
All of those 50s recordings were recorded in mono and not stereo. What I perceive in the difference is ... with stereo, you are there. With mono ... they are here.
Honestly, I have tons of early mono jazz recordings where, while listening to them, one has to wonder ... "who needs stereo?"
If you insist upon stereo only, for 50s and early 60s jazz, check out just about anything on the Contemporary and Pacific Jazz labels.
@oregonpapa I knew they were mono. And I can hear that immediately. I thought I was supposed to look for other differences. I misunderstood. However, I still felt like there was some sound stage. As impossible as that may be. In terms of mono vs stereo, in the recordings you linked to, it did not make much difference to me. However, I have some 60's rock album that are mono and they just sound flat to me.
^^^ Well, believe it or not, on good mono recordings there actually is a sound stage. Maybe not as wide as stereo, but the venue is certainaly there. I wish you were close by ... I’d give you a demo.
By the way, just as a side note, I’m a harmonica player. I’ve been following this woman for years on her Youtube videos. In the beginning, she was a good player. Now? Holy crapola! I keep thinking ... maybe there’s hope for me yet. :-)
Welcome to your introduction to Christelle Berthon:
I have dabbled with harmonica. Can’t play much of anything because I never stuck with it. Still have a few of them.
Have drums now. Same scenario but I can play through a few songs now. Went from small, quiet and portable to large, loud and stuck in the basement. My kit is electric and I’m really feeling limited by it. May get real drums before too long.........but the current pandemic is putting a real dent in the paycheck......so maybe later.
Well, take heart. The brilliant essayist H.L.Mencken said in an essay about true music lovers ...
"When you go to the opera on opening night and see the gentlemen in their top hats and tails and the ladies in their flowing evening gowns, they are not the true music lovers. They are there to be seen in society." He continued ... "You can always tell true music lovers by the fact that they always try to make their own music. They may be atrocious at it, but they continue to try anyway."
See ... it is, after all, all about the music. *lol*
@oregonpapa Frank, great quote. And it reminded me of something off topic. I am not an opera lover but I can enjoy some of them. I have also not traveled much but in 2009 went to Italy for the first time. Driven mostly by interest in Italian cooking. Went to Parma. Lovely little city. Great opera house. Thought we might go to the opera while we were there. Wrong. Tickets impossible to get. The door of the opera house was covered with ’need ticket’ requests taped and pinned to it.
Came to find out that it sells out quickly. Yes, with the tux and tails crowd but also throngs of young people. And many of them can’t afford seats but they can afford the top row tickets where they stand and watch the opera. And these things go on for hours.
We went back in 2018. This time with tickets bought well in advance. Tosca. Sure enough, teens standing on the upper gallery for the whole show.
Those are true music lovers too!
At this point I am atrocious on the drums........but surprise myself fairly often that I can do anything at all. And then there is jazz drumming............so hard.
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