Jazz for someone who doesn't like jazz.

@stuartk and @franklinb66 Thanks. I will look into those as well.

@tubegroover I’ve watched the first five episodes of Jazz and I’m enjoying them.

@andresb I’m familiar with Albert King, Buddy Guy and Hooker. I consider them blues guys but I suppose there is some overlap.

Been listening to Metheny but I get a "new age" vibe from some of his stuff that I’m not into.
Will look into some of the guitar and bass guys you recommended.

@klimt I’ll listen to that Sarah Vaughn album. I’m not much into female vocals but I bet my wife will like it.

Thanks guys. I'll get busy giving these a try.

@goheelz , thanks for that recommendation. I was typing the question about the foundational stuff as you were posting.

@erik_squires , so Erik, the good news is that it looks like I’m not completely dead inside. Trombone Shorty is good. Looking forward to digging deeper of course, just sampling things right now.

Marcus Miller is good. Maybe a little more funky than I’m looking for but a lot to like. Will dig some more there too.

Liking Bill Frisell’s Nashville album. Not sure I’d have called it jazz though.

Almost all of what I’ve listened to sounds well engineered and really exercise the system. I like what I’m hearing all the way around in terms of production quality.

uberwaltz, I might PM him and see if he’ll check in on this thread.

@reubent I’ve been fine. Just sort of settled in with my system; happy with it and no plans for upgrades etc so I haven’t had much to talk about in that regard. Have missed the music discussions here and need to get back into those. Feeling like I’ve gotten into a rut with my current music and like I might need to expand my horizons a little and thought jazz might help that. So I’m going to explore it. Will look into your recommendations as well. Thanks.

A lot of what I’m hearing so far seems very contemporary. Not that that’s a bad thing at all, but I might like to hear some classic jazz (is that a thing?) recommendations as well.
George

Thanks guys. Not checking out of the discussion but I'm down at my cabin with no internet access other than spotty cell data.

Lots to process here. Will be checking out a lot of the recommendations.

Some stuff is just immediately not for me. Other stuff catches my ear.

Amazon Music is actually working right now and we're listening to Marcus Miller's M2 album. The good news is that my wife actually likes this stuff. System at the cabin is a huge step down from home system but still sounds pretty good and she's digging it which is unusual.

A little more background: Without thinking about what is and isn't jazz, I've been familiar with Louis Armstrong for decades and have several albums mostly because my wife likes it. Also have a number of Nina Simone songs. Have a few Basie albums I never listen to but might now.

As I was talking to my wife about this (jazz) she reminded me of an older couple we have known for years who live downtown near us (small southern city near Charlotte) who is really into jazz. They often have musicians in their home to play for small groups and every year they have an intimate jazz event at a local venue with known (how well known I don't know) bands and musicians. My wife has wanted to go for years and we get invited every year but it is not cheap and I have always declined. Last year they had Noel Friedline, Maria Howell, and some others. Don't know who they are but Maria Howell seems marginally famous. Not sure who they will have next year. Cost is about $130 per person but includes dinner and drinks so maybe not that expensive.....considering what pop and rock tickets cost these days. The event is in December each year so maybe we'll go. It will make the wife happy anyway.
Thanks again for the intro and recommendations. Not sure I'm all in at this point but will continue to explore.
George

Okay, now I’ll make a recommendation for folks new to jazz who are into rock and blues:

Robben Ford’s The Sun Room with Bill Evans (sax player, not the other one), Keith Carlock and James Genus. Maybe more blues that jazz. I don’t know. Guitar heavy. I like it a lot. Seems well produced as well.


I know Keith Carlock for his work on Steely Dan’s Two Against Nature which is brilliant and one of the best produced albums I’ve ever heard. He is also an instructor on Drumeo which is an online drum instruction site. I’ve watched several of his classes.

Apologies (and thanks) if someone else already recommended this album.

@andresb, @reubent , I have listened to some of Ford's more blues based albums. Great stuff.

Thanks again guys. This is why I always come back to Audiogon, even when I've been gone for a while. You guys have given me days of listening "assignments". Random thoughts so far:

I like Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. Easy to listen to. Heard some of it before. But it isn't pulling me in deep. I will keep listening. Often my favorite music takes a while to hook me.

Listening to Ronnie Earl right now. I dig it but if no one had told me I would have just called it straight up blues.


Great idea about the Ken Burns documentary. I've watched quite a few episodes of the country music documentary and enjoyed them all even though I don't like country music. So the one on jazz should be perfect for someone who is trying to develop a taste for it. I wish he would do a full series on the blues!

Still exploring Marcus Miller. Some of it is too funky for me.

Listened to some of Brubeck's Time Out. Recognized a lot of those songs. Will definitely go back to that.

For some reason I find I'm not into female vocals much. Its never been a conscious thing. But, even looking back at my current music collection there just aren't a lot of female vocalists. I do like Nina Simone but for whatever reason some of the other female vocalists recommended here just don't do it for me.

Anyway, looking forward to moving down through these recommendations and again, I sincerely appreciate them.
George

@onhwy61  said: "If you don't like what you've heard, then why bother?"

Well, a couple of things come to mind:


At first I didn't like beer, bourbon, Scotch, asparagus, caviar, oysters, foie gras, etc etc. Over a lifetime I've come to value and appreciate those things.

Second, it would be distinctly possible for someone who had never listened to the blues or never listened to rock to be presented with any number of songs that they didn't like that were not representative of the entire genre and then assume, possibly wrongly, that they didn't like rock or the blues.

So the answer is, that my experience with jazz might be insufficient to know whether there are types and songs I would like more than others and that keeping an open mind I might find that jazz is an acquired taste that is worth acquiring. Like single malt Scotch.

@onhwy61  said: "Life is short, you should listen to music you like."


Agreed. But I also think life is too short to limit one's enjoyment. That can get repetitive.

@onhwy61 said: "By your own admission your question is insane. That said, there's easy access to any number of streaming services or even FM that will give you a taste."

Well, as insane as the question was I've got two pages of excellent recommendations for which I am thankful.
George

@dwiphefl1128, thanks for the recommendations. For some reason I am not drawn to female vocals in any of the music I listen to. I am not sure why. I do have a few favorites but not many. Anyway, as I've mentioned several times in this thread, my wife likes more of the jazz that I am listening to than most of the other stuff I listen to (with the exception of classic R&B which she likes). But, she does like most of the female vocalists you mentioned and it is actually nice when she likes to listen to music along with me so I will be motivated to give them a chance.
I have had that Traffic album for a while. Mostly for the title track but I'll have to give the whole album a re-listen.
George

So, Miles Davis. I like Kind of Blue and like Porgy and Bess. Most definitely do not like Big Fun or Bitches Brew. Those two seem very abstract to me, discordant, uncomfortable. I know that’s heresy but that is not the direction for me. Not yet anyway.

Watched the first episode of Burn’s Jazz. I liked it. My wife was not all that interested but episode two is about Louis Armstrong and that generation which is what she likes so she is looking forward to it.

Liked David Sanborn’s Another Hand.

Listening to Coltrane’s Beautiful Star In Town and liking it so far.

Enjoying Branford Marsalis' Eternal album. I like that it is laid back but does not, to my untrained ear, seem like "smooth" jazz. The tempo is slow but it is contemplative rather than simply soothing. A little melancholy but so far that seems to be something I like in a jazz album. I really like the drum and bass playing. It seems well recorded.

I purchased a used CD of the album on eBay. About $7. My first jazz CD purchase for me. (I'd purchased a number of jazz CDs for my wife years ago.)

I don't remember if anyone has mentioned Harry Connick, Jr. Is that jazz? I have a couple of his albums but not sure if they're jazz or not. I have them because I got them for my wife. I almost never listen to them. The ones I have seem more pop oriented.

@pryso Thanks. I'm not sure that I like Kind of Blue for the right reasons. I'm sure there is depth there that I have not explored or even recognized is there. But, when you are initially drawn to something it is a lot easier to dig deep than when there isn't that initial appeal.
I also like classical music. Not an aficionado by any stretch, but do understand that there is depth and complexity and can sometimes recognize and appreciate it. So that might help some.

@andresb is the one who mentioned Robben Ford. Thanks andres.

@oregonpapa said: "Like a lot of jazz musicians, Kenny G.went over to the dark side to make money"
I think this is true in a lot of genres. Lots of serious rock bands abandoned their core stuff to make ballads. They all made tons of money on cheesy, monotonous ballads and virtually none of them ever recover artistically. Others, like ZZ Top make a killer album like Eliminator and every album after it sounds exactly the same.


It would be hard to turn your back on the kind of money that vapid vacuous pop-ified music can offer.

I do remember a funny quote from Huey Lewis that after being a cult band on the local scene that they were accused of "selling out" when they got popular. He said they had been trying to sell out for years.


Listening to Harry Connick, Jr.'s Lofty's Roach Souflle' and it is not bad.


@nicotico We have watched two episodes of Jazz and I'm enjoying it. It really is more about the people than the music, and that's fine. I don't mind that. Its good to know some of the back story.

Noticed something interesting when I went to the dynamic range database and looked up Kind of Blue. There was not a single recording listed that suffered from any significant dynamic range reduction. Even recent production CDs have excellent DR.

If this is true across the genre it might be THE motivating factor that keeps me plugging away at this.

It’s kind of amazing since virtually all rock releases since the mid 90s or so are plagued with horrible DR recordings including new bands releasing music right now! Even bands that pride themselves on production quality.

Still enjoying Sanborn's Another Hand. Maybe the darker stuff is for me?
Listened to more Harry Connick, Jr. I like it okay. Wife likes it a lot.

@oregonpapa said: "To be honest, David Sanborn is not for jazz purists."

Of course, at this point I am not a jazz purist so that does not make a big difference to me. I do seem to recall hearing about Sanborn, in the 80's maybe, as being more pop oriented like Kenny G. But at that time jazz was not on my radar other than the bits I heard from Steely Dan.

However, the main thing I always got from Kenny G was cheese. I paid no attention to his ability on the instrument, it was just that the music seemed shallow and cheesy to me.

I have never heard Sanborn at all until this album. And while I have nothing to say about recording techniques or his proficiency on the instrument, the songs on Another Hand do not strike me as pablum. They seem mature and thoughtful. That's pretty much all I can say about that.

I did listen to the links you posted regarding 50's vs 40's (vs now).

On my system the recordings from the 50's sound pure, clean, precise, sharp, well defined, natural. I do perceive some sound stage but not much. Maybe all in my head. It has a shape but it is not deep.  The 40's recording sounds like it is in a can, far far away.

Compared to the 1950's recordings the modern recordings, Marcus Miller M2 for instance (aside from the heavy bass) seem to have much more sound stage and it is rounder and deeper. There seems to be more richness for lack of a better word, maybe that is the same as depth. However, they do not sound as clean and crisp as the 50s ones you shared.

I might be totally wrong about all that. I'm totally new to jazz and fairly new to serious hi-fi. Just giving it a shot.

@oregonpapa I knew they were mono. And I can hear that immediately. I thought I was supposed to look for other differences. I misunderstood.
However, I still felt like there was some sound stage. As impossible as that may be.
In terms of mono vs stereo, in the recordings you linked to, it did not make much difference to me.
However, I have some 60's rock album that are mono and they just sound flat to me.

Wow, that chick can wail on the harp!

I have dabbled with harmonica. Can’t play much of anything because I never stuck with it. Still have a few of them.

Have drums now. Same scenario but I can play through a few songs now. Went from small, quiet and portable to large, loud and stuck in the basement. My kit is electric and I’m really feeling limited by it. May get real drums before too long.........but the current pandemic is putting a real dent in the paycheck......so maybe later.

I had not thought about Mel Torme. I’ll have to dig a little.


Frank, I had not heard of that soprano (nor many others) but I will look her up as well.

I got into Italian cooking years ago after watching Molto Mario, one of the best cooking shows ever. He apprenticed in Emilia-Romagna. Not exactly the tourist heart of Italy but certainly the center of Italian cooking. Great people there too. So friendly. I’m not of Italian decent.....but I’m Italian at heart!

@oregonpapa Frank, great quote. And it reminded me of something off topic. I am not an opera lover but I can enjoy some of them. I have also not traveled much but in 2009 went to Italy for the first time. Driven mostly by interest in Italian cooking. Went to Parma. Lovely little city. Great opera house. Thought we might go to the opera while we were there. Wrong. Tickets impossible to get. The door of the opera house was covered with ’need ticket’ requests taped and pinned to it.

Came to find out that it sells out quickly. Yes, with the tux and tails crowd but also throngs of young people. And many of them can’t afford seats but they can afford the top row tickets where they stand and watch the opera. And these things go on for hours.

We went back in 2018. This time with tickets bought well in advance. Tosca. Sure enough, teens standing on the upper gallery for the whole show.

Those are true music lovers too!

At this point I am atrocious on the drums........but surprise myself fairly often that I can do anything at all.
And then there is jazz drumming............so hard.

My Amazon Music account is now starting to give me jazz recommendations and I happened on Grant Green's Idle Moments. I'm enjoying it.

Thanks. As mentioned I do have Amazon Music Unlimited. So far I have been able to find all of the music recommended here so I think Amazon's selection is okay.

Amazon has a hi-res option but I do not get that since my streaming gear is not good enough to notice a benefit. I usually use Amazon to find what I like and then buy CDs (or albums rarely). One day I might upgrade my streaming gear and subscribe to a hi-res service.

Just purchased the Robben Ford, Bill Evans, Keith Carlock The Sun Room CD. Would be interested to see what the hard core jazz folks think about this album as apparently Ford is better known as a blues guitarist. I don't know anything about Evans but Carlock has done plenty of jazz work.

@ronlykins, I'm enjoying Matthew Whitaker's Otta the Box.

@jcipale I have not thought about BS&T in a long time. Will have to go back and give them a listen just for the fun of it.

@oregonpapa I have to say I have a hard time hearing anyone other than Sam Cooke doing that song. I think Cooke had one of the best voices ever and I think that song is one of his best.
A completely different thought- where in the world of jazz music do the Squirrel Nut Zippers fall? Was it swing? Was it ragtime? Was it jazz? Were they just a novelty act?
I don't know the answers to any of those questions but I bought the CD when it came out. It was fun and my kids liked it. I still listen from time to time. I don't know how it was accepted by the jazz community but it is clear to me that whatever they were they were a talented group of musicians.

@mdemaio Thank you for your response. And sure, seeing what comes naturally and what hooks you is great. As you say....."there is no end to what you can find" but that very reason can make it a challenge to dive into any genre unguided. The signal to noise ratio is low. One could spend hours and hours listening to garbage and then wrongly assume "jazz is not for me".

And even though I've only been a member here for a year or so, I've come to trust the good judgement and good taste of some of these folks. That helps narrow the field and increases chances of "success" in my opinion.

Even in the case of rock and R&B which I know pretty well I have gotten recommendations here on great music that I now love that I might never have come across otherwise.

In any case, you are correct, the interconnectedness of jazz makes it an interesting and twisting path and I'm still enjoying that. The Ken Burns series is helpful on that account as well.

So far I have to admit that I'm still a little luke warm on jazz. I do recognize in it enough to keep me listening though. The hook may come later. It might not. But, learning about it will not have been a waste of time even if it doesn't hook me in.

I do plan on seeing some live jazz as soon as possible.

Thanks again guys. I'm still following the various suggestions being given in this thread.

@david_ten , listening to Mike Stern right now.

As far as an update, well, I've been listening to all the various suggestions I've gotten in this thread and I've watched the entire Ken Burns Jazz documentary which I really enjoyed.

I have been exploring jazz for about 2 months now. I definitely have a better understanding of jazz and its various forms. I have a better understanding of its history. I have a much better appreciation for the whole genre and what its all about. I have enjoyed a lot of what I've listened to.


However, I'm almost embarrassed to say that I'm not hooked yet. I say 'yet' because I'm not done trying and maybe it will come. As I've said before, some of my favorite songs/albums across various music types are ones that it took a long time to appreciate. So I'm not giving up.

I had a strange experience with Coltrane's Love Supreme. In the Burns documentary one of the Marsalis brothers, I think it was Branford, talked about how hearing that album for the first time was a transformative, life changing experience. He was practically addicted to the album. So I immediately listened to it. I didn't get it. I didn't hate it, but it certainly didn't draw me in.......but, after it was over, I got a feeling that I understood what he was trying to say, vaguely at best, but still, there was something there. I listened to it again and that feeling did not grow. Not something I could put my finger on but also not 'nothing'. I've listened to it a couple of more times and I still haven't developed a greater appreciation for it. But, I'm going to continue to give it a listen every now and then.

Maybe something will click.

Follow up from the OP (me). It has been nearly a year since my last post in this thread.

During the following months I had pretty much given up on jazz. Just wasn't going back to it much other than Branford Marsalis' album "Eternal" on Sunday mornings from time to time.

I still don't listen to a lot of jazz and when I do it is not a wide variety. But in the last few months I do find myself going back to Kind of Blue, A Love Supreme (still challenging) and Art Blakey's Moanin'.


Kind of Blue makes sense to me now and I'm listening to it fairly often.

One of the reasons that I'm still hanging on could be that I'm learning to play drums (slowly, painfully) and jazz drumming interests me. It is way beyond me and I don't see me becoming proficient but it is intriguing and I'll probably continue to study it. (I can play through Blakey's Moanin' but it is very simple).

Anyway, just thought I'd provide the update. Can't say I'm hooked on jazz but it hasn't let me go yet either.

stuartk, I am branching out with the artists you mentioned. I think I'm drawn now to the late bop and early modal stuff.

As for your question, I'm not sure.  I think it will take some more thought since I like all of the songs. Probably not sophisticated enough to appreciate the breadth of the stylistic range you refer to yet.  But, I think I'd rank Freddie Freeloader last and Flamenco Sketches and So What at the top. Probably less drawn to the brash side of things (in jazz). More drawn to the ethereal and introspective side but not sure if that excludes the bluesy stuff because I like slow blues which I find can be introspective and even mellow. I really like Blue in Green.

However, if I tried to do the same thing with a Zeppelin album, for instance, it still might be difficult even though I'm very tuned into the nuances there and appreciate the stylistic variations within many of their albums since I like a quiet acoustic folk song like Bron-Yr-Aur and a rocking blues epic like In My Time of Dying all on the same album.

But, its good to think about it and to learn to appreciate the differences so I'll continue to think about it.

@jjss49: I will certainly look into Kenny Burrell. Thanks.

@stuartk: Thanks for those recommendations as well.