Thanks for the suggestion!
My Aqua DAC has a polarity switch - I assume this will work.
I was surprised to see other well-known labels on that list.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
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Hello @frogman
I think Wayne Shorter should be 3rd, between Rollins and Henderson. If your only going by how often they are/were copied and their virtuosity then, yes to the big 3 you mentioned. However it could be argued that Shorter was the most prolific tenor sax composer of all of them. Wayne Shorter can best be described as "a life of reinvention". From 1957 through 1967, Coltrane had a 10 year run that could never be approached by any tenor player since then (it never has). Rollins has longevity going for him as well as being arguably the best improvisor on the tenor bar none, including Coltrane. Henderson had a great run and belongs up there. I just started listening and appreciating Henderson over the last few years. His first 4 recording sessions for Blue Note are arguably the best first 4 recording sessions as a leader among all of the players we are discussing. What I have learned about listening and studying jazz in the last 25 years is that the majority of "pure straight ahead" jazz listeners who limit there repertoire of albums to the golden era of jazz - 1935 - 1965, do not like change. Some even abhor it. A great example of a tenor that we have not mentioned yet, a man who’s recording output pretty much stayed true to the "jazz purists", is Stan Getz. Getz won the Down Beat tenor poll more then any of the players we mentioned. Getz’ tone is beautiful and easily recognizable, and he always played like that in the pocket and very enjoyable style. Getz never tried to "branch out" and experiment (unless you count the bossa nova recordings in which he still played the same beautiful tone in a "new thing" setting). Rollins, on the other hand, was constantly "on the move". He experimented with Emboucher, breathing, different tenor manufacturers, rhythm, melody, harmony, chords and space. I think Sonny’s detractors are put off by his tone, which he played on purpose. He wanted a "large sound" but there are many examples of him mellowing his tone on certain songs. Sonny was also the "strongest tenor player" of all of them. After he quit using dope he started a strict workout regiment with dumb bells (he brought them everywhere and would use them in between live sets and during breaks recording. He set up a pull up station in his apartment in NYC. Pianist Paul Bley, who played on Sonny’s great studio session with Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Meets Hawk, and toured with him during that period, said that he could not "keep up" with Sonny. And he was not the only musician who had trouble with Sonny’s staying power on extended improvised medleys sometimes lasting an hour or more. Bassists, drummers, and many other pianists of the time are all quoted in Sonny’s new biography on Sonny’s strength and physique. |
Hi pjw, good comments. But, not sure I agree with a couple of your assertions. Pretty bold comment that Rollins was a better improviser than was Coltrane. From my vantage point to deem one better than the other is a bit of an apples/oranges issue. One of the things makes Trane, Sonny and Henderson so special is that they each had uniquely personal sounds and approaches to improvisation. They were innovators on their instrument and the reason that they were so often copied. Shorter is one of my favorite Jazz musicians, but his innovation was mainly as a composer. No doubt he was also an influential tenor player, but ultimately not on the level of the other three. I would even suggest that it was his soprano saxophone playing that was the most innovative. Love Stan Getz. Beautiful sound. Not sure what you mean when you say he has not been mentioned yet. I hope you mean in the context of this most recent “conversation”. There has been plenty of Getz posted here over the life of the thread. One of my favorite things on YouTube. Talk about contrasting styles! Coltrane’s is uniquely his and new. Getz is wonderful, but ultimately right out of a Lester Young bag: |
I believe it has been the 4 plus weeks of reading about all of the gargantuan exploits of the great Sonny Rollins, the majority of which are primary sources given to the author by musicians and people in the recording industry, that swayed my comment on Rollins improvisational superiority. After reading your post I listened to exactly 6 different long extended versions of Richard Rodgers My Favorite Things by John Coltrane. Each one is a masterful improvisational gem that continuously quotes the original theme, subtle and pronounced, with not one version sounding like the others. Based on those 6 Coltrane renditions of My Favorite Things I have to agree with your quoted statement.... Re; Stan Getz Yes the references I made were in the context of this recent discussion on tenor players |
Excellent may be an understatement. Blakey and his band hit Japan like one of the countries yearly typhoons and started a long tradition of returning there to play as well as opening the floodgates to Japan. One must remember that 1961 was a mere 16 years after we ended a horrific war with Japan by using nuclear weapons. Nobody knew what kind of reception they would give American musicians on their home islands but the fanatical outpour of support, including the "airport greeting celebrations" was a revelation. All was forgiven (never forgotten) proving that music could heal millions of listeners half way around the globe with a totally different culture then ours. After Blakey, hundreds more jazz greats followed in his footsteps to the outstretched arms of Japan.... |
Stuart, there are thee recent ECM recordings of Carla Bley, Andy Shepard, and Steve Swallow. All are must haves. The older songs with legs is also very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDhRrGCwqg A more recent album from Ben Allison, Steve Cardenas, and Steve Nash playing Ms. Bleys music is nice. A little different versions, but the music and the playing are fantastic.
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One of our forum members made this comment about ECM Records: "For anyone that listens ECM (and some others) albums, you should try to reverse polarity on your preamp, or on your speaker terminals, as those albums are ’out of phase’." This comment really surprised me, as in my opinion, ECM engineering is typically excellent. I decided to do some research. I went to a forum of ECM devotees on another site and asked about this issue; none of them had ever heard of it. Based on what I read there, I don’t believe that there’s any authoritative information to substantiate the "out of phase" claim. That being said, each of us is, of course, absolutely, totally free to set and reset our equipment as we see fit. I apologize for the rant! I’m interested in the truth and am totally open to seeing authoritative information on this topic. Thank you for your patience. Enough, time for some jazz! |
Hey guys, What are your thoughts on Tina Brooks as a tenor sax player? I’ve been listening to several albums today. Minor Move is a great example. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMAB89BlQ_bn3qdxHHlcCP4Vtl1Yk9M7Q&si=MgC21qcsTXfF-XFQ |
@curiousjim He was very fine player. He's featured on a Blue Note album by Jimmy Smith entitled "The Sermon". You might check out Booker Ervin and Hank Mobley, if you haven't already done so. By the way, the folks on the ECM forum went totally bonkers over my question about "out of phase" recordings. I think they're going to kick me off the site! 🤣🤣 |
Tina Brooks was a great tenor and also a very good composer. Its too bad he died so young. I have all 5 of his Blue Note albums as a leader on CDs. He played tenor on Freddie Hubbard's superlative debut album as a leader. Brooks composed the title track of the session "Open Sesame" Open Sesame (Remastered 2002/Rudy Van Gelder Edition) - YouTube Plus 1 Booker Ervin and Hank Mobley @ho249 |
I’m not a sax player so I’m not going to make any claims as to who was "better", technically. Nor do I possess your deep knowledge of Jazz. Nevertheless, I find "Soul Station", "Roll Call" and "Workout" much more stimulating than any of Brook’s recordings. Ditto Ervin’s "Freedom Book" ,"Space Book", "That’s It", etc. But, I also prefer Shorter, Henderson, McLean and Gordon to Coltrane, Rollins, Bird and Webster, so what do I know? Simply what moves me, I guess -- no more.
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I get it. I hope you didn't get the impression I'm suggesting T. Brooks isn't a worthy topic for discussion. When Blue Note first came out with the CD reissues of his recordings on that label, I got the sense it was a really big deal -- that T.B. was some sort of neglected genius, based on the labels PR. So, perhaps my expectations were simply too high. I don't harbor a dislike for him -- it's just that there are other sax players who I find much more engaging.
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Musical taste is a subjective subject. Music affects us all differently and in a very personal way. I would not say that I am deeply knowledgeable on jazz when discussing the nature of the "actual music" but I understand it layman terms. The personal lives of many of our jazz greats I do have extra knowledge because I have read their individual biographies, which anyone can do. So when I say Tina Brooks is a great tenor player I am not saying that Tina is better then Hank Mobley or Booker Ervin. Nor will I say they are better then Tina Brooks. I like them all equally and Booker and Hank have a larger catalogue in which to chose from. My observations are based on my subjective personal musical tastes as a "knowledgeable listener" and not a musician. When @frogman , himself a musicians peer, who I'm sure has countless musician peers as friends in the same line of work states that the musicians consensus of the best tenor players is Coltrane, Rollins and Henderson in that order he is not saying that we should all accept that as the "written law" and forgo others as second rate imposters. As an example or two, we have the early "expert critics" reviews from the most popular jazz magazines of that era such as Down Beat, Jazz Review, ect... When Coltrane quit dope and subsequently started a quest in 1957 and to become a tenor sax player par excellence, he received many bad reviews from these critics. When Rollins was in his early 20s, the critics, Nat Hentoff comes to mind gave him bad reviews as well but his peers, the actual musicians playing the music all sought him out to play tenor on there recording dates. Miles Davis was one of Sonny's biggest supporters. In the late 40s and early 50s Rollins, even though just a young 20 year old, knew the "language of be bop" and his playing was more like someone with decades of experience then just a few years. After Rollins recorded Saxophone Colossus and Way Out West, Hentoff and the rest of Rollins' detractors came around.... After Coltrane's Giant Steps, the bad reviews all started to flip to good. There is a 6 minute long live Coltrane review in between sets on the Miles Davis live in Stockholm Complete 4 CD set. It is on track 4 disc 1. This set is awesome and features Coltrane on tenor 2 nights and then Sonny Stitt, who took Coltrane's place when he left Miles to pursue his quest, as tenor player (you can compare the 2 styles!). I highly suggest that any JFA members get this set. Its free on Spotify and includes the Coltrane interview. |
@pjw81563 +1 on the "Stockholm 1960 Complete" set. Love it! In his solos, Coltrane does some astonishing things with harmonics! |
Thanks for your clarifying remarks.
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All musicians can emulate an impressive and gifted player and they will do it... But a moving playing is "impressive" in a way that is inimitable... It is the reason why i love so many musicians for their difference and less for the comparison... The road from complexity to simplicity is a purification road as in Wayne Shorter case for example is as difficult than the reverse road from simplicity to complexity which is the road to initiation ... I admire the two pilgrimage musical roads... Music for me is not on the paper not even under the improvising musicians hands but from their heart... And sometimes two hearts create a road of their own, the road toward a true dialogue which is at the same time an initiation and a purification , a loving road: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW7HOrlVVY&list=PLCJOOM7kDf23o9XYls2zbBgIUbQ86qyP_&index=6 |
I search for new music regularly, and am really intrigued with this record: https://redhookrecords.bandcamp.com/album/refract Is it jazz? Maybe. Definitely improvised music. It's on Qobuz too. |
Some here might be interested in this, from the bandcamp page, regarding the label:
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A short lived "Jazz Super Group" V.S.O.P Tony Williams is the featured musician on "Birdlike" One of a Kind (Live) - YouTube V.S.O.P. QUINTET 「So What」 - YouTube Joe Henderson replaces Wayne Shorter on tenor on this reiteration of V.S.O.P VSOP The Quintet Reunion / Eye Of The Hurricane (1986) - YouTube
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If you haven’t yet heard his first Blue Note "Night Dreamer", why not begin there? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJS8HXbYn4&list=OLAK5uy_mAu9NiVToftZRqogZrSMeqo_FN3v5-hu0 Or for something completely different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85Qa0cnKRk&list=PLHsZtZLpiZPfHDJJBQf5irTiY9lXYCz0E
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@curiousjim Billy Cobham is an excellent drummer, whom I have had the pleasure of seeing live in a trio setting with bassist Ron Carter and Donald Harrison on tenor. Cobham's first studio album as a leader, Spectrum, is one of my favorite jazz/rock fusion albums and on my desert island list (1) Billy Cobham - Quadrant 4 - YouTube The trio I saw (1) Donald Harrison with Ron Carter & Billy Cobham - Seven Steps to Heaven - YouTube |
At the end each musician is unique passed some artistic level... I had my own preferences but this has nothing to do with who is the best... More about a soul quality that correspond to me more than of the always gifted musicians virtuosity ... Sometimes less is more ... I just listen Gene Ammons right now...I like his rythm and phrasing blues ... |
With the idea of "less is more", here’s an interesting ECM recording. It was apparently produced by Creed Taylor in 1961, and remixed by the folks at ECM. The group is the Jimmy Giuffre 3, with Guiffre, Paul Bley and Steve Swallow. I haven’t heard the whole thing, but I really like what i have played. It’s a lot different than the group that included Jim Hall and Ralph Pena. Here’s a link on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/4EjAwetGTd02wpbCzBIuUf?si=0rGadnZ1TgKMhYBtZegxRA Hope the link works. Album is called "Jimmy Giuffre 3, 1961"
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The Yuko Mabuchi Group/Trio is very good IMHO. (1) Yuko Mabuchi - Plays Miles Davis (2019) - YouTube (1) "So What," Yuko Mabuchi Trio - YouTube (1) "GIRL TALK" The Yuko Mabuchi Trio, Los Angeles 2017 - YouTube
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There are three releases by this group listed in the Penguin Guide and all are highly rated with the one titled "Free Fall" receiving the highest possible "crown" rating. I'd actually never listened to them, before. I like the sound as well, but given the sparse instrumentation and lack of significant variation of tempos, can't help but wonder whether it would get a bit monotonous over the course of an entire album. I guess it would fit a certain mood. Well worth checking out, though. Creed Taylor, eh? Who would've thunk? |
ECM is a prime example of using Spotify to check out music before spending money. I have not purchased an ECM release without listening to it first in a decade. Before that my ECM purchases were 50% good and 50% disappointing. @stuartk your quoted description of that album can be applied to a lot of the ECM releases. Some like that dull "mood music" I for one can't stand it. |
While I'll never qualify as an ECM fan boy, I do enjoy a select few releases on that label. It's not all on the side of the spectrum you describe. For example check out albums by Dave Holland and those by Jack DeJohnette, if you are curious. There are far more knowledgeable ECM fans who may chime in. Not trying to "convert" you, though. Each of us likes what we like. Nothing wrong with that.
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