Welcome, uberwaltz! First, don’t worry too much about what we think. There has been a lot of disagreement and arguing on this thread over what is and what is not Jazz. Consider what some of the greatest Jazz artists to ever play the music have said and continue to say: ”There are only two kinds of music, good and bad” Beyond that, does the title really matter that much? The music of all the Fusion/Crossover artists that you list has, at least, a strong Jazz component in it. Some of them (especially Clarke, Yellowjackets, Grusin and Jordan) have been part of projects (their own and others’) which are Jazz by any measure. Besides the above quote, I would offer another truism that is very important to the musicians themselves. That is, the idea that one can’t really play “modern” without first understanding what came before it. In a way, and to an important degree, the same goes for listeners. Post some favorite music! ———————————————— Jazz quiz for all: Besides being Jazz, what do the following tunes all have in common? (Hint: uber) https://youtu.be/-488UORrfJ0https://youtu.be/5Wd--YgSCfAhttps://youtu.be/vofbnkQcW_Q |
what do the following tunes all have in common?
3/4 time. Waltz. Cheers |
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I'm currently listening to JuJu Man by Gary Bartz. I originally found this record in an old record store in New Brunswick, NJ in 1978. It blew me away and I wore the grooves out. I think the session was recorded at some out-of-the-way studio in LA in the mid 70s, but the sound isn't the story here, it's about Bartz' blowing his alto and soprano with much emotion.
It would be many years later when it was re-released as a Japanese import on CD. Now the streaming services have it.
This album just swings hard. It's worth a listen just for Gary's performance. On "Chelsea Bridge", he starts on clarinet and switches to soprano mid-tune.
Thank you, Gary Bartz!
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Today's Listen: Camille Thurman -- INSIDE THE MOMENT Camille Thurman(tenor sax & vocals), Ben Allison(bass), Billy Drummond(drums), Mark Whitfield(guitar) Chesky Recording using MQA technology. Recording takes some getting used to. Her sax sounds very subdued. Sometimes you think they are playing to the technology. Very small, but very enthusiastic audience. Sometimes it seems as if their applause is the focus of the recordings engineers. She is really a very talented singer, but as leader and Tenor Sax player, she needs to be more out front. She probably will as her career goes on. I thought 'Cherokee' was the best tune, also the band's encore number.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Uo52AL6DM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxYr3hb_MU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knzqzHKsudE Cheers On headphones you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see where the applause is coming from. Strange. |
Lino Nicolosi...... Billy Cobham, Stanley Jordan, Eumir Deodato.
Streaming on Qobuz.
Real nice workout! |
And thank you for rolling out the welcome wagon Frogman!
😇😇 |
I agree with the sentiment of your review of the Camille Thurman recording, Rok; even if I would describe what I hear differently. I don’t feel there is anything wrong with Thurman’s place in the recording. For me, the reason she doesn’t sound up front is that her playing is not commanding. Very talented, but she sounds like an immature player to me. Uses too many cliches with even a nod to Michael Brecker’s funk sound in one spot 😱. I find her scatsinging to be more compelling than her playing. She can scat like only a horn player can and actually makes all the harmonic changes of a tune and doesn’t simply “generalize” them like most singers do. Still, she sounds kinda like Ella, just not as good; doesn’t have her own sound yet. There are many young tenor players out there who are far more interesting and compelling. Can they also sing? Nope. There’s the charm. The amazing power of DNA! and carrying on the musical blood line: https://youtu.be/-SQNVQHCNcg |
@frogman Finally received this a few days ago. This is my favorite Sonata so far. But, I will have to listen many times. Great recording. Maybe the best recorded violin I have heard on CD. Wow, she is quick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ed01ywc_B0 The Faust / Melnikov is no longer available. Cheers Thurman: You always know how to say things mo’ better. |
Sammy the Man... People who need People are the loneliest People in the World....its been along time since I even heard his name period. |
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Glad you like the Beethoven. Argerich is phenomenal.
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I have always liked Gary Bartz’ playing. There’s a reason Miles chose him for one of his later bands. Very soulful player. For anyone old enough to have lived through the 70s. Talk about music reflecting the times! https://youtu.be/GGSXmt1KH9Y |
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Gary Bartz: Nice clip. He can play. Could have done without the verbal noise. This clip came up next. Same player, older and wiser we hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j1dFXbHtTY
Miles: Sad case. Too sad to comment. A falling Star surrounded by rising stars? Cheers |
Saw that one coming 😊 https://youtu.be/QCLqDOmMB3w”Same purpose” Verbal noise. So 70’s! Goes with the bell bottoms and platform shoes. Oh, yeah....and the ‘fro. |
Heard this on the radio today. Made me think of that Camille Thurman recording and her impressive scat singing; but how much the simple delivery of the song was missing this: https://youtu.be/VLGbsFs16HQ |
Carmen McRae: Great singing and song.
Thurman is no where near as smooth as Carmen, does not have her phrasing ability. She is a diva in the making.
I listened to Thurman's CD today. Sitting here waiting for her sax solo, when it dawned on me that she was playing her solo.
When a tenor sax player solos, you know it immediately. She just fades into the band. Also, this is not the most cohesive band you'll hear.
She will get better with experience, but the talent is there. Hell, she's in Wynton's band. Not too shabby.
Some of the problems were caused by the Chesky recording techniques. Not the best way to record small group Jazz.
Cheers
Btw, did Wynton get rid of anyone to find a place for her in the band? |
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Interesting...
I am afraid I do not do YouTube in any way ,shape or form.
Or Twitter and similar online stuff.
Audiogon is about my only online vice 😇. |
No Billie here, but who is? Notice she said "she calls it fine and mellow", not "called it fine and mellow". I like that. These folks don't die, they just go live somewhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3C9L6VzOdY
Cheers Thurman should check these tenor sax players. |
Uber, I totally get feeling the need to limit one’s involvement with the Internet. It’s a struggle for me in some ways. But, YouTube is unbelievable. So much great stuff on there. The best is not available anywhere else. |
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Thurman:
I think she needs more than a little time. Always good to see a young artist reaching for the stars and to see a lot of support ($) from the powers that be. And she sure is getting the support....lots of it....and for a variety of reasons......🤔
Talented for sure, but I hear nothing original. A little of Ella here, a little of Sarah there. Actually much more than a little....too much. Where is Camille? Her saxophone playing, by the standards of current young players (never mind the proven greats), is not that great. The phrasing sounds rushed and there are too many questionable note choices. Like her singing it often sounds scripted and preplanned. Even so, singer more than player.
I hope I’m wrong.
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Thurman vs Lundy: Not a fair comparison. Lundy is 32 years older than Thurman. Lundy has a much better band and record labels. Much more experience. All the greats, were not great on day one. But, Thurman has the voice. She may have to choose between singing and Saxophone. She will probably choose singing, although, she is a member of the best Jazz band on the planet. There is always that.
she paints her own cover art. Does that count?
No. Cheers At the worst, we have an embarrassment of riches. Nothing wrong with that. |
Never heard of the Jazz Video Guy. But with that self-proclaimed name he should know more about the music.
"Miles went electric in the '60s."! Well, yes in 1969 with "In A Silent Way". But that album didn't become so well know (I happen to really like it) but I thought electric Miles was attributed to "Bitches Brew" from 1970 and the albums that followed that?
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Lundy was an original more than 32 years ago (I went to school with her). I just don’t hear it in Thurman. I guess my point is to ask why Thurman is getting all the attention and backing at this early point in her career. I would have bought (and did)buy a Lundy record 32 years ago. I see (hear) no reason to do so this time other than simple support of an aspiring singer. Certainly not a bad thing. |
I guess my point is to ask why Thurman is getting all the attention and backing at this early point in her career.
She has the talent, and this is the stage, career wise, that the help is most needed. She may also have the personality. Being liked, never hurts. She will be great. Esp if Wynton is involved in her career. Billie on now, singing, "I Got A Right To Sing The Blues" :) Puts everyone and everything in their proper place. Lawd. The songs Lundy sings tend to sound a little too 'New York-ish' for my taste. Cheers |
**** The songs Lundy sings tend to sound a little too ’New York-ish’ for my taste.****
“New York-ish“? Nah. That’s your preference for an older sensibility. Your taste. Nothing to do with NY. She’s from the South. Now, in a way you hit the nail on the head. Lundy is an original. What Thurman does has been done a thousand times before; only much better. I’m left with the feeling “what’s the point? who cares?”.
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Everyone is not an Aficionado like yourself. The best way to get the attention of the Jazz unwashed, is to do well known tunes, standards, with your own twist. She did the right thing. I am sure it will change as she grows into it. has been done a thousand times before; only much better. I’m left with the feeling “what’s the point? who cares?”. you realize you are condemning most of Jazz music. Think of all the standards that have been done a billion times. Autumn leaves? Are you saying once Miles did it, Peterson, Harris, Jamal, et al. were a waste of time? And what about the folks who did it before Miles? Does that make Miles a waste of time? Standards lend themselves to creativity a lot more than originals do. Simply because there is nothing to compare an original with. Some time wasters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiceSi25xJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en6kmiX0SDc you get the drift. Cheers Better buy Thurman while they are cheap, before they become collector’s items. New York-ish?? Think Sinatra |
Rok, if they become collectors items, they will be remastered every other month and they will find more "new" formats to sell them to us. |
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if they become collectors items, they will be remastered every other month and they will find more "new" formats to sell them to us.
Sad but true. However I stop at CD. That's the end of the road for me. I have 7 disc spinners. I can go thru nuclear winter on CD. I had forgotten about Salvant. You know, we could have a glut of young new Jazz divas. Maybe a new golden age is upon us. Cheers |
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Rok, Rachelle Ferrell "First Instrument" excellent album!!! |
To my untrained ears, Lundy seems to be more 'articulate' in her expression than Thurman.
I think there are many great new singers (voice vise) but I find it hard to find them 'believable' when they cover standards. (speaking in general)
It is perhaps because of my preconception, as german poet Rilke said, that poems are written out of experience not out of feelings, so I am kind of more inclined toward singers whom I imagine have felt or have more 'connection' with the things they sing about.
In one way, singing is very hard, if you look at it that way, because I think that is 'easier' to play and express emotions (even if they do not mimic yours) than to sing them...
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In one way, singing is very hard, if you look at it that way, because I think that is 'easier' to play and express emotions (even if they do not mimic yours) than to sing them...
Both are hard and take great dedication and talent. Since the human voice is the most expressive of instruments, I would think singing your emotions would be easier, assuming of course, the person can sing. Cheers |
Rachelle Ferrell "First Instrument" excellent album!!! One of the few by her I have. I discovered the video clip before I realized it was on the CD. Cheers |
