Jazz for aficionados
Somebody say “great sax section”? https://youtu.be/LcL0Qxa7RLY https://youtu.be/EM5b_SC4hW0 https://youtu.be/EXm5tMYBCiU https://youtu.be/UOjXWKNWQDw |
Since I'm "ambidextrous", I can walk and chew gum at the same time, that makes me quite talented. (almost correct) Like Fords and Chevies, we all are products of the factories that made us: urban, suburban, rich, not so rich; etc, you get my drift. Even in jazz there are a multitude of distinctions, and who knows what determines what we like best. I would like to carry those thoughts to the players. Stanley Turrentine was born in Pittsburgh's Hill District into a musical family. His father, Thomas Turrentine, Sr., was a saxophonist with Al Cooper's Savoy Sultans, mother played stride piano, and his older brother Tommy Turrentine became a professional trumpet player. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Turrentine He was born into a factory of musicians; that could explain why he has been so prolific in regard to his out put of good music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4igZ7o75-ZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9S-kMiNT5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpvCGBiCxUw |
Today's Listen: Cannonball Adderley Sextet -- LUGANO 1963 This was recorded in Lugano, Switzerland, of course. The note writer, Norberto Gimelfarb, actually had the audacity to take a swipe at Wynton. "You can instantly tell what separates them: as far as I know, Cannonball only preached through his horn". "But there are common features. Cannonball carries in his approach the entire Jazz tradition as much as Marsalis does- or pretends to..." Wow!! I guess Wynton must have said or done something that irritated the 'Professor'. So much for auslander critics. The music: Lateef on sax, flute and oboe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5YC7N7biTo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpk6AFwqhQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2tnZIodgw Cheers |
Today's Listen: Maynard Ferguson -- CONQUISTADOR somewhere in this are: George Benson, Randy Brecker, Joe Farrell, Patti Austin, Bob James, Jon Faddis, and a cast of thousands I don't know. He doesn't just hit high notes, he plays entire tunes up there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pulI3in1UgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v1J-kGxXds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DKHMTV3NQ He designs his own trumpets. This is the only recording I have ever heard that I thought was a live band playing. I couldn't see the rig, just heard it from a distance outside. Sony APM speakers and Phase Linear amps. A must own for any Trumpet player. Cheers |
Sure, for a reminder of how to not play the trumpet 😱. Play as loud as possible with an obnoxious tone and as high as possible (affectionately referred to by players as “screech trumpet” playing); and do it all to an overproduced disco beat. What’s wrong with that? 🤪 I wonder what Wynton thinks? Sorry, not my thing. Just kidding (kinda) because Maynard was a really good trumpet player in his prime before he found a niche with the overblown “big band on steroids” sound. He had incredibly strong chops and was legendary as a lead trumpet player. What happens to a player who plays that loud and that high for all those years is that he ends up being able to only play high and loud. Blows out the chops and loses the ability to play with any kind of finesse. Kind of what happens to a fast ball pitcher after throwing that hard for years. Early Maynard: https://youtu.be/RFzKnXFUwAs https://youtu.be/XfMk9XZyv7k As lead trumpet with Stan Kenton https://youtu.be/tCPBRvchgZQ On valve trombone (nice!): https://youtu.be/GzWmsDBfh5o Road musicians have the best stories! Or, at least the way they tell them: https://youtu.be/4LgKe40wZ9g |
frogmanEnjoyed listening to your posts of different versions of "Caravan". my Takeaway on each:1) Bigard band: most notable was how each player has a very distinctive Timbre and strives to produce a strong sound Identifiable to that player.2) Abdullah Ibrahim`s. variations on Caravan was excellent. It shows a different improvisational approach which was fresh and interesting. I have several of his recordings and he always seemed to take a different path than most other pianists.3) I enjoyed Tommy Flanagan's version the best. He stays close to the Bebop approach as always a tasteful soloist.4) the Ellington Roach Mingus version sounded like 3 Guys having an enjoyable jam session. Ellington retains the flavor of the tune. There was another version of Caravan posted earlier by Jackie Terrason Although it was interesting I felt his need to pretty much deconstruct the song didn't add anything to it. |
Today’s Listen: Count Basie -- KANSAS CITY SHOUT with / Joe Turner and Eddie ’Cleanhead’ Vinson vocals Both Joe Turner and ’Cleanhead’ Vinson were way past their prime on this recording. Still better than most. Of course Basie was always in his prime. Vinson on Alto Sax also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplnmoOtVFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV1zpgM9Y9k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05KOyeaMtSE have mercy, Percy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-sOrRxii8E Cheers |
I don't play, but a trumpet story a few might enjoy. I discovered a friend in my alumni club played trumpet in the marching band while in school and continued to go back each fall for the alumni band reunions. Now those of you who may be old time audio hobbyists should remember the name Robert Fulton of FMI (speaker and wire manufacturer). It happened that Fulton had a band background and in fact had invented and produced a trumpet mouthpiece, aside from his audio products. One day in casual conversation we touched on audio components and I ask my friend if he ever heard of Bob Fulton. Not only did he know the name but he owned a Fulton mouthpiece. He said he had tried several and only the Fulton produced the tone he wanted. Here's another trumpeter who favored higher registers, initially in jazz with Woody Herman, then later (presumably to make more $) in rock - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbQHNrCotcc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgDg_C0GqrQ |
By Royal Command: say it BB, say it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxJ7JCppdvM&list=RDdebDGhfzz-c&index=2 Cheers |
frogman, re Maynard Ferguson. The first 2 links I enjoyed the music. "Jam Session" was released in 1955 and "Maynard 61" was released in 61 (obviously). The Kenton Big Band link is from a 1950 release "Stan Kenton Presents" and yes the high pitched trumpet playing by Maynard on that is quite annoying. The only inaccuracy I see is that you stated Ferguson started playing continuously in those high registers while blowing out his lungs through the trumpet was something he did later in his career. This is not true as the session dates above attest to. It seems to me that Maynard played that way when it was called for in the composition. Although he could have toned it down just a little :) Its funny that right after listening to that annoying song from "Stan Kenton Presents" this beautiful song followed it automatically on You Tube and is the extreme opposite playing from the trumpet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Np8PJDGq_A |
Khatia Buniatishvili is one great classical pianist!!! Man I thought those things were gonna pop out!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_TLU_M7PE |
Awesome Basie clips, Rok. “Cleanhead” sounds great; past his prime or not. Definitely someone who has gotten short shrift here. Glad you liked the “Caravan“ clips, nsp. I agree with your take on them. Pjw, I think you misunderstood what I wrote about Maynard; perhaps I wasn’t clear. I never said he started playing that way later in his career. ALL the clips I posted were meant to be examples of early Maynard, including the Kenton. He was in his prime then. High register playing was always his main calling card. He was a pretty good improviser, but hardly a standout in that respect. You’re right about playing in the high register when the music called for it. The job of a lead trumpet player is to play in that register only when the chart calls for it. One may disagree about the tastefulness of the high trumpet writing in the Kenton chart, but that was not up to him. It was written that way and he was one of the few who could play the part as he did and why he got the gig. When he started fronting a big band later in his career (‘70s) the arrangements were designed to feature his playing in the stratosphere and that’s pretty much all he did and is when his playing got over the top. Besides, he was then the boss and could do whatever he wanted. All this coincided with the decline in the popularity of big bands and Maynard (as well as Woody Herman and others) went the “Big Band Fusion/Rock/Disco” route. Kept them and the bands working. It’s an exciting sound in a way; but, for me, only for about a minute. What happens when a brass player plays that hard all the time is that the lip and face muscles (not the lungs, unless there are health issues) give out and get conditioned to playing that way and the player loses the control needed to play delicately and with finesse. That probably started to happen before he started fronting his own band. If you listen carefully to early playing and compare it to the later “over the top” stuff you’ll notice that in the early things (including the early Kenton things) the tone is a lot nicer, intonation is better and the note attacks are more accurate and secure. Blast from the past, Pryso. The band Chase was big during my college days. It should not go unnoticed that this type of the horn laden Rock band sound coincided with the huge popularity of bands like a “Blood Sweat and Tears” and ”Chicago”. https://youtu.be/SFEewD4EVwU |
Today’s Listen: Gene Ammons’ All Stars -- THE BIG SOUND with / Coltrane (alto), Quinichette, Pepper Adams Another outstanding Saxophone grouping. Jerome Richardson (flute) Only four tunes, so I posted them all. Notes by Ira Gitler. Mr Gitler says that this was Coltrane’s first recording on Alto. He switched to Tenor while in Dizzy’s band in 1951. Gitler went on to say that Coltrane, on the tune ’The Real McCoy’ "showed a little rust in handling the lighter, faster horn tonally". I would like to hear The Frogman’s comments on that. These critics sure have nerve. First Wynton, now Trane. next? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCuEkphSvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH07y7nLF1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPycViCDXjg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuH9Q3BxRuM Cheers |
Coltrane/Gitler/alto: First of all, Gitler is way off with his “facts”. Coltrane recorded on alto well before that Gene Ammons date (1958). He recorded on alto with Dizzy, among others, about a decade earlier. Moreover, he “switched” to tenor in 1947 two years before his first recording with Dizzy (on alto). He did not switch to tenor “while in Dizzy’s band”; he had already done so, but continued to play alto on occasion. Tenor became his main horn. The proof: https://youtu.be/3Qn7123lcTM https://youtu.be/d92SCcKfc9o First known recording of Trane on alto at 19 yrs old (terrible audio): https://youtu.be/ypcCcpob27k Now, let’s put Gitler’s other comments in better context: Coltrane started on alto (and clarinet), but he didn’t really begin to find his true voice until he switched to tenor in 1947. After all, if he had found his voice on alto why would he switch to tenor and put the alto on the back burner? Notice how much he sounds like Bird (surprise!😉) on that early recording. By the time that he recorded with Ammons in 1958 he had made dozens of recordings on tenor and the 1952 recording in the clip above is the last known recording of him on alto prior to the Ammons session. Obviously, he was playing alto less and less and the reason he played alto with Ammons was probably (my guess) that there were already two tenor players on the session. By 1958 he had a very defined voice on the tenor; he had an identifiable style. While Gitler’s comment “showed a little rust in handling the lighter, faster horn tonally" is technically inaccurate in suggesting that Coltrane struggled with the smaller horn (he did not) I think I know what he meant. Each horn in the saxophone family lends itself to a certain way of playing. I think Coltrane sounds great on that Ammons session, but he sounds like Coltrane the tenor player. He sounds like a tenor player playing alto. I think that is what Gitler means by the use of the term “ rust...tonally”; a strange way of putting it. This sort of thing can be heard with some other players who play more than one saxophone. Listen to Sonny Stitt, he sometimes sounded like an alto player when playing tenor. It’s a certain way of voicing the notes on the instruments and a certain shape to the lines that he plays while improvising. In Coltrane’s alto solo on that Ammons session one can here that this was the beginning of his “sheets of sound” approach and there are several obvious “Coltraneisms” in his solo. His tone on alto, especially in the low register of the horn, sounds like a smaller tenor. But, “rusty”? No way. I like what he plays. A player that strong can get the message across on a kazoo and Trane could do it better than just about anyone. I think Gitler was nitpicking for no good reason. My two cents. |
Today's Listen: Harry "Sweets" Edison and Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis -- IN COPENHAGEN - SWEETS AND LOCKJAW with / local rhythm section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55C1uZhrLCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usymlLNQocY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC2rEwSvk24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxWu0A-ttso Both played in the Basie Band. Its shows. Cheers |
Hi Frogman, You mentioned Sonny Stitt who is a musician I really enjoy, admire and listen to often. I feel that he was able to move between the alto and tenor saxophones effortlessly. He demonstrates this on the Album "Constellation" accompanied beautifully by pianist Barry Harris, bassist Sam Jones and drummer Roy Brooks. I always appreciate your input. Charles |
Good to see you here, Charles. I love Sonny Stitt and I completely agree with you that he moves between the two horns effortlessly. To be clear, my comment about him was not meant to suggest that he didn’t, but as an example of the more general point I was trying to make. When I hear Stitt playing alto without first knowing who it is, I know immediately that it is Stitt. When I hear him on tenor, it is not always as clear to me that it is Stitt. Like Coltrane, he was an alto player first and then added tenor (and baritone) to his arsenal. Unlike Coltrane he continued to play both alto and tenor throughout his career and developed as a player on both. He was a bebopper through and through and remained so through out his career; unlike Coltrane whose style saw much more drastic change. Some feel that he actually developed a more individualistic style on tenor citing his supposed similarity to Charlie Parker. I’m not sure I agree with that and think that, in a way, it is more of a reflection of the point that I was trying to make that the bebop alto player in him comes out in his tenor playing. Here’s a bit of a rarity: a chance to compare Stitt on alto, tenor AND baritone. All on the same tune! Sounds great on all three horns. For me, more of his true self comes out with one horn in particular. What do you all think? https://youtu.be/L7Fn7vf-E1U Quiz time: What well known orchestral work does he quote at 3:54? Hint: Composed by a well known American composer who added much to the American song book. |
Hi Frogman, Okay I definitely understand your point. I'm working now but will listen to the recordings you've sumitted later tonight. As is clear I love Stitt's performing with any sax but would say at his core he's a Bop/blues alto saxophonist who happens to do everything else superbly. I've never hears him play the baritone sax so I'm looking forward to that. Charles |
Today's Listen: Toshiko Akiyoshi Jazz Orchestra -- DESERT LADY FANTASY featuring Lew Tabackin on tenor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BpQcwe4ncs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JvUQeelTwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vqVzVtlCXE Not that familiar with her, but here is her story according to wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiko_Akiyoshi Cheers |
Diane Schuur is one of the great female vocalists we have overlooked. While listening to her, the thought of what makes a vocalist great crossed my mind, and I came to the conclusion that it's the ability to project in a song, life's experiences in such a way that we are experiencing the song. On "Love For Sale"; I experience the emotions of a young lady that's had a string of bad love affairs after which she's decided to try "Love For Sale", but she would really rather not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yo3fV0IBR4 On "The Man I Love"; I can hear the longing in her voice when she sings this song, and I hope he comes along. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d80CT75ovqg She sings this song with flirtatious swagger; "The Best Is Yet to come"; she lets you know what she can do to bring about the best that's yet to come. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tltQUxcxX2s I must say that I'll have to include Ms. Schuur more often in my musical rotation. |
Diane Schuur: I have a few CDs by Miss Schuur. Great voice. I like all three tunes you posted, but I felt the band was lacking something on "The Man I Love". The Band Just didn’t seem / sound right to my ear. Maybe The Frogman could comment on "The Man I Love". Nice posts and your interpretations of the song’s meaning were spot on. Cheers |
There's a thread by Erik Squires, titled "Current Woman in jazz" that I'm trying to learn something from, but I'm so "Old School" that I have nothing to contribute. "The Sound Of Red" by Rene Marie has been mentioned on this thread; I think I bought that album, but I can't find it. What I like about Rene Marie is the fact the she's written a lot of her own songs; that means I don't have to complain about her not singing the song the way it's suppose to be sung; her song writing is also very special; it's so insightful and realistic. On "Go Home" she sings of being with a married man who she's telling to go home, but if he lingers too long that can change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrm4eTbt47s On this one I can really relate to the video; there's nothing I liked better than night lights on city sidewalks, and swinging jazz lounges. "Peach Tree Street" in downtown Atlanta was my favorite street for walking; I put in miles walking that street at night; those neon signs are reminiscent of those nights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ64fMe0Xh4&list=PLodlcsECHYFPHcMaiQb6FI3k8pgjOc9LH&index=1 If I can't find it, I'll have to buy it; I like everything about this album, boss music. |
Today's Listen: Betty Carter and Ray Bryant -- MEET BETTY CARTER AND RAY BRYANT I think the first Jazz LP I ever purchased was Ray Bryant's "Slow Freight". Carter did "Baby It's Cold Outside" with Ray Charles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDv2eEmMRpE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSyyDMbVIcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGteXTYVW-U Jerome Richardson on flute. Cheers |
This is my favorite version of "Moonlight in Vermont"; that includes the album cover. To be honest, I don't know whether it's the music, or the memory attached to the music; whatever, I get a warm feeling whenever I hear this, but it's not vocal. Betty Carter is too jazzy, this is a romantic tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRNpc-hFkCs This is my favorite "Frenesi" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1I4FMbQCgQ "The Way You Look Tonight" is Betty Carter at her best; she and Jerome Richardson knock it out of the park. |
Pryso, not surprised that your local orchestra is pretty good. The quality of regional orchestras has improved a great deal over the last few decades. Better and better trained young players are coming out of schools and even the lower profile conservatories. Great piece, “Rhapsody”. Previously played only by Classical concert pianists, lately it has become almost “de rigeur” for Jazz pianists to play it and to improvise during the extended solo piano sections. Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Marcus Roberts, Makoto Ozone and others have done it that way. Great that you are supporting your local orchestra. |
Have we appreciated Sheila Jordon? There's a story worth telling; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r8XF9YkyeM |
Miss Jordan is trespassing. That song belongs to John Coltrane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG2dsXV5HI One exception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwT93ARAVlE&list=OLAK5uy_mrqGh0j15Q5awB8FNaicSJNcVdUnrUJy4&index=11&t=0s Cheers |
Rok, you are a full fledged "jazz aficionado"; the music you selected made that determination. There is the "young Sheila"; the "middle aged Sheila", and there is the "old Sheila"; you selected the one we now like the most. Did you hear those dynamite musicians she had with her? I know you did, I just wanted to let you know that I heard them too. I have this CD "Portrait of Sheila", that I like a lot; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-34UkHqd3B4&list=PL0q2VleZJVEmZ4zvGNH1l74rupONXEokX&index=2 She can make everything she sings sound special, that's because she's a very special artist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhRRg_IYPjc&list=PL0q2VleZJVEmZ4zvGNH1l74rupONXEokX&index=4 |
Coltrane's "Spiritual" caught my eye, and I was wandering when that was recorded in relation to the time I saw him live in the Winter of 63. "Spiritual" was Recorded November 2–3, 1961 at the Village Vanguard, in New York according to one bit of information, and 10/22/1963 according to another bit; maybe both are correct. I would like to contrast these two numbers; "Spiritual", and "My Favorite Things" when I saw him in January or February of 63. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkY_zTKzPCY "My Favorite Things" was on display when I saw him; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG2dsXV5HI |
John Coltrane: 'Spiritual' shows why this man was so great. He was a complete master of the Tenor Saxophone. If he could think it, he could play it. Remember in Nica's book, several guys 'wished' they could play what was in their heads? John Coltrane could. Favorite Things: I think McCoy should get at least equal credit for this tune. His piano playing sort of took over the tune. Both great, of course. Nice clips. Cheers |
Rok, more and more do you display the intense listening of a true jazz aficionado; I saw that live, and not until you mentioned it just now, did I realize the weight of McCoy Tyners piano on this tune. He generates the "essence" of "My Favorite Things" as it was originally written; his piano is most certainly part of the soul of the tune; that's the part which must be captured no matter who plays it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG2dsXV5HI Tyner's piano provides the introduction, and from 2.21 to 7.05 his piano dominates the tune, after which JC takes over. That could explain why at the live performance I saw, the tune was more than 20 minutes long, because Trane went on and on; that really made the musicians happy. Kenny Rice, a professional drummer was sitting at our table, and he was in another world as Trane went on and on; mere enthusiasts such as myself were wandering (where is this train going and when is it going to stop) Somewhere else I stated exactly how long it was, that must have been much more than 20 minutes. BTW, every professional jazz musician in St. Louis was there, without their girlfriends. Fact; me and my date were saying "enough already", it was just that long; but the musicians were ecstatic, they could have listened to this foray into the 7th galaxy all night long. Trane had lost Tyner and Jones on his excursion into the outer limits; Tyner looked at Jones, as if to say, "We'll just hang together until the boss gets back". Although not recorded, this was quite common at the live performances. |
Diane Schuur/“The Man I Love”: The band (orchestra) sounds professional enough and I don’t think there is anything particularly “wrong” with it except that the playing sounds somewhat hesitant and cautious. The reason for this is what IS wrong: classic example of of an overdone arrangement; too much going all the time. Not enough space. And the arranger (Clare Fischer) is trying too hard to be “hip” by using way too much dissonance in the chord voicings. The result of this is that the players don’t feel as committed to what is on the page as they would be playing an arrangement that is more “inside” the harmony of the song. Dissonance can be very effective, but dissonant notes need to be played with conviction otherwise they sound like wrong notes. Worse still is that excessive use of dissonance obscures the tonal center of the harmony of the song and this makes it much more difficult for the singer to sing in tune. Schuur is a great singer, but on this her singing sounds a little “pitchy”; a little flat at times. I don’t like the arrangement for this very romantic song at all. Dissonance and romance don’t work well together. |
