Jazz for aficionados

Acman, understood; I listened again and changed my mind; flute music is on it's way home to me.

pryso
also not worried about the new talent in jazz. Enjoyed the Kawaguchi cut but as orpheus10 said not digging out 80 bucks for that cd( or any other). He was also on the money when he mentioned the group sounding like RTF- I listened to clips from another Senri cd A La Mode and it too sounded like RTF.
Enjoyed the Oscar Peterson clip- funny and informative.
Thanks for the Coltrane article --now I am interested in the new "lost" album.

Been wanting to post some R Coltrane -has he been discussed previously?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=apKIMbhW9vY

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdLCoLVRCmk

acman, thanks for the Coltrane post.  From the other listings along the right hand side it seems maybe the entire album is now available on YouTube.  My local jazz FM station featured it last week and gave away a few copies.

nsp, my reference to concerns about new talent was mainly tongue-in-cheek.  Not so much here but I've seen a few articles saying jazz is dying due to the lack of new talent.  I don't happen to agree.

And like you and others, I certainly heard references to RTF in the Kawaguchi cut.  Nothing wrong with that, it is somewhat of a jazz tradition (at least for some musicians) to quote other tunes inside a solo.

Fortunately for me, there is more good jazz from the past than I have money to buy, consequently; it's impossible for me to run out of "new" music, even if it's old.

@pryso & nsp

I’m not sure if you saw the link I left for orpheus10 for Hiromi Uehara yesterday or did and just don’t dig it. Anyway she has been around well over 10 years now and IMO is one of the outstanding pianists/composers out in the jazz fusion genre today. Her live shows are electrifying and she has recorded albums with some of the best known and respected jazz musicians in the world including a trio recording with Stanley Clarke and Lenny White (RTF) and a duet with Chick Corea (RTF). Here is the link again with her backing band Sonic Bloom on 3 of her earlier recording sessions playing live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsuPkyFQuQ

Her Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_7?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=hiromi+ueh...

All Music:

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/hiromi-mn0000681376/discography

A basic, and therefore most important, concept in jazz -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-GrRIgdmW8

Thank you Prof. Hancock.

pjw

Yes I did listen to Hiromi but had not been able to respond till now. I also enjoy fusion and do not consider it to be "noise". Her name was familiar but not her music. Like her style very upbeat also the sidemen . Will check out more of her music. Do you know the name of the cd she made with Clarke &  White?
I have been enjoying Bill Brufords Earthworks cd "Random Acts of Happiness"
which was recommended by ghosthouse. I think you would like it. Sax,piano ,bass& drums in a jazz fusion style.
Also you mentioned J McLaughlin do you have his trio  cd "live at The Royal Festival Hall". Highly recommend it.

It's not the note you play that is the wrong note, It's the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong.

                                                               Miles Davis

orpheus10
I have always dug Sonny Criss and have a number of titles of his. I will post something soon. Is he underrated/not well known in jazz world? I think he was one of best alto musicians of they period way back when. It's good to hear you can find new music in the time frame and style  you like. It's always great to discover new titles and or artists. I went through a perios several years ago where I did not think I would find new jazz artists to appreciate but I did . And now that i am participating in this forum I have discovered more music with the help of everyone. My thanks to you for starting this forum.

nsp, Sonny Criss is absolutely fantastic and his music ranks with the very best, I will have to get more of it.

On this thread, we are all benefiting from one another, I am overjoyed that you are benefiting from my posts.

Frogman is gone, and I do not miss him; I am tired of responding to his needless, un-necessary controversy. Time, time and time again, he has twisted my posts into something I didn't say; is the man jealous of me specifically?

Even with all his knowledge, that he flaunts like a threat (I'm going to leave this thread); "Please Mr. Frogman, don't leave us, we need your knowledge". For all of you who feel that way, make your personal plea to the Frogman. Mox Nix to me, because I don't understand technical jargon; it's like people who speak French to indicate they are highly educated.

So much of my opinion of the Frogman.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0


Git Down Charley Brown; Mox Nix; It don't make no difference.

Today is the 4 of July, and they just "let" me out of the hospital; (all's fair in love and war Frogman, I ask for no sympathy) Let me explain how this game goes, I went to the hospital in an ambulance on an emergency basis, but I couldn't leave the hospital until they "let" me out; kind of like being in prison; you can not get out until they "let" you out.

At least I can listen to some fireworks and post on this thread by myself. I wouldn't be posting if I was well; I would be off on a picnic with friends and Bar-B-Q, but I have to play the hand I was dealt, not the hand I want to have; I think I'll play the lonely DJ.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQpxZ9cG-Y


When this was on the juke box, I was swinging high wide and handsome, sitting on a barstool nodding my head to the sounds while gazing into "Pretty Eyes", that's what I called her; we were both under 21, and full of the fire of youth; I can still hear her fingers popping, they were just like everything else about her, they had a special "snap".



         

o10, I'm sorry you feel the need to continue your dispute with frogman.  He mentioned being on a very long flight to Asia so perhaps he has not returned home yet?  Who knows if he's even had continual internet connections?

I for one hope he does return to these discussions.  My understanding is that he is a professional musician.  Clearly he knows more about the technical aspects of music than I do, and likely many others here as well.  Since I don't have any musical education I can't always understand his comments or explanations, but I often learn something within my limited range of comprehension.  And for myself, learning is a major benefit from this post.  Sometimes that can be an introduction to artist unknown to me, other times an album that I'm not familiar with by a known musician.  Still other times the discussion here explains a context, history, influence, or technical aspect of a given number or album.  For that I thank not only frogman but all of you with enough jazz knowledge to fill in some blanks.  I enjoy that all and find it personally enriching.

In other news, I'm enjoying a Louie Armstrong marathon on my favored local jazz station today, being the 4th.  For those of you who might not be fans and know about this Satch "adopted" the 4th of July, 1900 as his birthday.  One more reason to celebrate today!

Pryso, don't feel sorry, just do as they did in the wild west, clear the dust and stay out of the way; dis is between me and the Frog.

This song goes out to my good friend Rok; it's "Cold Duck Time"; that's what we said when we brought "Cold Duck" wine to the lawn party; "Cold Duck Wine" is our thang and partying is our game.



                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ago8dP4fFA&index=2&list=PL4ypuAMic-GhjZyNQTNOVZfgv9fP_Cq4A

Sorry guys I'm not ready for any "mythical" patriotic 4th of July stories;

 

                https://nypost.com/2016/01/17/occupy-obama-he-orchestrated-a-massive-transfer-of-wealth-to-the-1-per...



            THE REPUBLICRAT.

Don't worry, the Frog will have it removed.

nsp

Here is the cd:

https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Garden-Stanley-Clarke-Trio/dp/B001VFM0QU/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=...

I will check out the discs you mentioned.

Notice that article tries to keep the "Liberul Consertive" dichotomy for the "Hunter Fishers".

Obama was neither, he was a thief; but since he was a liberal thief, that meant he was a "bad" thief, and if he was a conservative thief, that would have meant he was a good thief.

If you are a citizen of this country, take your brain out of "phaze lock loop"

Now back to your regular scheduled program

Music soothes the savage beast


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD8-A_bgsg8


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKYgtwsqnxs

pjw
Thanks for that HCW link. I am going to start there. I didn't know she did an acoustic cd. later I will search out a fusion cd of hers to buy.

orpheus10
Sonny Criss
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_nhZGIsERUE

Criss w/orch
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXei3vNzd68
blues
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qckz-Jy1qQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9p9yv4YaW4

nsp, I was late to the Sonny Criss show, but better late than never. I really enjoyed them all and will add to my collection as the budget allows.

We stood before it and began to freeze inside from the exertion. We questioned the painting, berated it, made love to it, prayed to it: We called it mother, called it whore and slut, called it our beloved, called it Abraxas...."


The album cover features the 1961 painting Annunciation by German-French painter Mati Klarwein. According to the artist, it was one of the first paintings he did after relocating to New York City. Carlos Santana reportedly noticed it in a magazine and asked that it be on the cover of the band’s upcoming album. The cover is now considered a classic of rock album covers.


If you ever stare at that white dove that’s situated at the apex part of the shapely black woman’s anatomy, you will be drawn into "Abraxas"; I have the album before me, and I can tell you this album cover is a revelation; I’m not quite sure of what, it’s different every time I stare at the album cover. If you have the LP, pull it out, stare at the white dove and let your eyes wander from there.

Now on to the music; since this album has consistently appeared in catalogs since it came out in 1970, that’s a testament to it’s staying power and popularity. From beginning to end, this is music that does not fit in anyone’s pigeon hole; "rock" they say, but I don’t like rock. Since it’s got to go somewhere, just leave it at rock.

We begin with "Singing winds, Crying Beasts"; from the opening notes, you know this album is going to be something spectacular.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn50ipwWarg

nsp I think you will enjoy that HCW disc. I ordered the JM live disc you suggested but the Bruford  disc was pricey on Amazon. I'll need to look around for a better price. 

Hey acman3,
you’ve posted links to really great YouTube videos over the years. It there a way to hear them at better than 128 mp3? I bought a downloaded/ripper and even with it, all I get is 128. It say it will D/L lossless, but 128 is all I get. I looked at YouTube specs and they say that they don’t do any better, but soon will have a pay service with better quality.

Am I missing something?

JD

JD, I am glad you have enjoyed some of the clips.

I may have my Audiophile card revoked, but I normally listen to my computer through the computers speakers at highest rate available on Youtube. Very Lofi! I have been meaning to upgrade, but put more time into main system, and just haven’t gotten around to it. I do stream music off recordings to make sure they are as good as they sound on a computer when available.

I think everybody else on this thread has a better computer system than I do, so maybe they will help you out.

Sorry to be of no help, but if your able to hear and GET the music, I don’t think you are missing a thing.

pjw
Correct Bruford's RAoH is pricey I paid $15.00 for it. Just ordered Bruford's
Stamping Ground, trio cd with bass and sax for $11.99. Just curious if you have any experience with Hiromi's sacd titles. Noticed she has numerous hybrids available was wondering if better sound/price differential is worth it? I always like the sound of sacd over redbook when I compare.

acman3
Thanks for the Stanley Clarke/Hiromi post. I intend to buy that cd. Just trying to catch up with your posts of 6/29/18. Joey Alexander is a real prodigy. I can't believe the length of his fingers . He was born to play piano with those hands. I will seek out some of his music.

orpheus10
Your post of "Soulful Strut" took me back to memories of my youth.I remember hearing  that song on the radio and never knowing the name or artist. It must have been a crossover hit as it has both catchy  hooks with the piano and the horn section . This song had to be one of those that created an interest in jazz for me along with music from Blood Sweat & Tears and others.
One of my favorite songs from that time (and still is today) is from the famous album "Supersession". This is true jazz and creates a mood which takes me to other places. A timeless gem:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QUT_NQ4tbTI

nsp, I liked "Harvey's Tune" but it was way too short, just as I was getting into it, it was over.

We both share a love for "Soulful Strut"; I have so many memories of good times in "Bistros" with that song in the background.

On "Alberts Shuffle", I thought that was "Albert King"; my favorite blues man.

I remember when I thought the South Side of Chicago was heaven on earth.

One more fourteen hour flight on my way back from China and with dicey WiFi. Spending a Fourth of July in that country, as interesting as it is, made the fact that posting on sites like Audiogon is blocked by their government particularly meaningful. So, catching up on the posts of the last few days; good way to pass the time.

First, thanks all for all the great clips.

Rok,

**** Did Ellington know before hand, what Gonsalves would blow, during his ’interval’ at Newport? ****

Later:

**** Since this was such an important moment for the Ellington Band, I just wondered if The Duke knew it was coming. ****

Two completely different questions, no? I already explained why Duke might know some of what Gonsalves would blow because I don’t think a simple “yes” would have been very meaningful. That nuts and bolts thing is the only way to explain why Duke might know. In answer to your second question:

Of course he would have known it was coming. Solo orders or who is going to be featured is always preplanned; especially for recordings. That chart was Gonsalves’ feature and Duke always introduced it as such.

**** This music was first played in the whore houses of New Orleans. So, to which "Technical elements" or "Technical flaws" are you referring? ****

I’m sure there was both good and bad playing at places like Ruby’s. I find that sometimes bad playing (or singing) gets a free pass because the music fits into a certain style or time period that the particular listener happens to like a lot. Imo, there are too many examples of great music with playing that is without significant technical flaws to bother with the flawed. “There’s usually a reason why...”. But, that’s just me.

**** The ’putdown’ that Pops was ’just an entertainer’ was started by the so-called ’angry’ progressive/noise makers from the NYC Jazz crowd. ****

I don’t think so. This was a notion held by people with limited knowledge about the music and its history; and how it evolved. They would see Pops on television and that is pretty much the extent of the association. This misconception began well before there were any what you consider “noisemakers”. The significance of Louis Armstrong in jazz has always been understood by anyone who has more than very casual appreciation of it and its history; and his place in it is just as significant as things like the fact that Bird and Diz “invented” bebop.

Alex, I saw Johnny Griffin twice at the Village Vanguard back in the late ‘80s. His playing was fantastic, but I can’t really say that it was “better” than what I hear in his recordings.

You ask some interesting questions.

**** Does the lack of interaction with ’public’ and life itself on more intimate and every day level makes the todays jazz different than one from before? ****

While I am not sure I would characterize it as “lack of interaction”, the answer has to be “of course”. Art is always a reflection of the times; this has been discussed before, However, that is not what determines its ultimate quality. Any one listener may not like what the music is saying (reflecting), but it may still be great music; and that same listener may or may not appreciate that fact.

**** Is it possible for an art form to grow without such relation and does that makes jazz ’dead’ except as an form of expression of people who are practicing it ? ****

Jazz is growing. Again, one may not like it, but it’s growing alright. And contrary to a recent mistaken assertion it is growing in the US probably more than anywhere else. As it should be; it’s its birthplace.

**** But, their form of expression is very different

Is it possible to apply the same analogy to jazz, because except for the same instrumets and similar conception in performance, we are looking/hearing at two very different types of music, but we are calling them by the same name? ****

Much of Coltrane’s music is every bit as, or more, “different” from the music of Louis Armstrong or even Charlie Parker. Are they not both “Jazz”?

Thanks for the link to the book; I will check it out.

As far as some of the other notable posts go, I was reminded recently by someone very wise of this great George Bernard Shaw quote:

”I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. ...”
——————————————
One of my favorite tenor sounds; and one of the all-time greatest story tellers. He kills me every time with the way he builds a solo like a great story:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLP9osh3Z1g&list=PLE1SK0O9FkE6WskguWMTWEFvrz0UZiJOU&index=2

nsp
I started buying Hiromi recordings back in 2006 starting with the "Brain" sessions. Telarc was her label for a long time and the CD's Brain, Spiral, Time Control, and Beyond Standard were all released in a hybrid SACD format. At that time it was the only way they were released and usually for 15-20 dollars. I like the sessions with "Sonicbloom" backing her as it added the electric guitar virtuoso David "Fuze" Fiuczynski. All of her trio sessions are also awesome usually with Anthony Jackson on electric bass and Simon Phillips on the drum kit. No introduction is needed for those two!!!

My personal favorite session "Beyond Standard" with "Sonicbloom"
I saw them for that album tour at the Blue Note NYC and they tore it up down there. Here is a snippet from the Amazon blurb:

Hiromi's supergroup, Sonicbloom, has shattered the formula of making records written solely by the celebrated pianist/composer. Their latest outing, "Beyond Standard," finds Tony Grey (bass), Martin Valihora (drums), and Dave "Fuze" Fiuczynski (guitar and otherworldly sounds) helping Hiromi craft unique versions of familiar tunes such as Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm," Rogers & Hammerstein's "My Favorite Things" and even Jeff Beck's "Led Boots."

The group has been recognized for its energetic virtuosity by music industry and mainstream publications alike: Downbeat, JazzTimes, Keyboard, and The New York Times. Playing festivals such as Glastonbury, Fuji Rock, and Playboy Jazz proves that Hiromi's unique fusion nuevo has been accepted in the world of jazz as well as rock. "Beyond Standard" is a showcase for Hiromi and her band's abilities, with each player getting plenty of room to shine.

I don't have regular cd versions of her first half dozen recording sessions to compare with my SACD version on an A-B basis so I could not tell you if the sound quality is better.

pjw, thanks for the focus on Hiromi.  I had heard a couple of things by her in the past and for no particular reason I didn’t follow up  Very impressive very high energy playing.  A melting pot of many styles and piano playing with the technical precision of a player with a strong Classical background.  Pretty impressive stuff:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oOCniYVLlXs

orpheus10
Your reference to Albert King is appropriate . Th e guitarist on "Albert's Shuffle",  MiKe Bloomfield, was a well respected & popular blues guitarist .He w as born in Chicago , played with many oF the popular blues artists who resided there. He made his reputation playing in clubs "BigvJohns" and "Magoos". He helped to popularize blues in the 60's but unfortunately died of a drug overdose in 1981.Agreed "Harvey's Tune" was way too short. Would have liked to have seen it stretched out with some solos. It was just an added tun e at the end of the session where leader Al Kooper graciously gave bass player Harvey Brooks time for a tune he had written.

pjw
Thanks for the specific Hiromi titles it gives me something to work with. She must b e great to see live very dynamic lots of energy.
Regarding her sacd hybrids i should have been more specific. Was curious if you had compared the sacd layer with the cd layer on the same disc. In other words switched from sacd to cd  using the hybrid if your system plays both cd and sacd.

nsp
I listened to all her discs years ago on my SACD compatible player. Since then I have ripped my whole collection to my laptop via Windows Media Player in FLAC format (lossless). I connect my Laptop to my  AVR via HDMI to listen to music so I don't have to load and unload discs constantly. I have all my discs (approaching 500)stored in boxes. I would have to physically play the disc to get the SACD format. If I have time this weekend I will try an A-B analysis. I have listened to plenty of her music via my laptop/AVR and it sounds fantastic. The engineers did a great job. Wide soundstage/imaging with subtle nuances all shining through. 

Another Hiromi fan here. As above, Jazz in the Garden, is an excellent disc.Happy Listening!

Ron McMaster retires...liked his work on more than one album...

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/capitol-studios-vinyl-ron-mcmaster/

pjw
It sounds like you have simplified your music library via computer. I wish I had those skills. No pressure if you have time and WANT to compare I am interested. It's good to know her cd's are engineered with good sound either way.

alexatpos
I will get to that McMaster article . Thanks. Just wondering I saw frogman's reply to your: Johnny Griffin. Was wondering where you read he had claustrophobia in studio. I had never heard that. He is one of my favorites.
Just read rok's post. Are you from Croatia?  I have been watching and following Worls Cup matches all month. This is really huge, man!! Best of luck to you and your country on sunday.

Thanks, Rok and Nsp, very nice of you to say that (yes,I am from Croatia)
By the way, it seems that scottish fans are even more happy than ours, after win over England....
https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/3021999441278901/

Aldo there is massive hysteria over football, here, now, I cant see it more than a sport achievement,(as it as) oppose to a feeling of 'identification' with 'collective national spirit', that such things, sometimes, have tendency to represent. We are still very small (but beautiful) country with lots of problems and such things are sometimes purposlely used as distraction from dealings with more important stuff...

It was one of the Frogman posts, an article, where there was a line about Griffin, not so long ago.You can try to browse his posts and find it.

**** The difference in time was approx. 17 minutes!!

Is that possible? Or is this a result of repeats taken or not taken? ****

Sure it’s possible. Much controversy around what the “correct” tempos for Beethoven’s works should be. In recent times his symphonies have seldom been performed using Beethoven’s metronome markings in the score which would result in much faster performances. They are usually performed much slower than marked and Bohm’s recordings of the 9th are known for being some of the slowest. I have Bohm’s recording with Vienna, but I don’t know the Gardiner. It’s possible that Gardiner made an effort to, as some “purists” insist on doing, stick to Beethoven’s markings. This would result in a performance under one hour in duration vs many others which are in the 70+ min range.

An interesting factoid that you may not be aware of: the possible total length of a CD was determined by Sony execs to be 74 mins in order for a single cd to accommodate the 9th in its entirety. At the time, the slowest known recorded performance was with Furtwangler conducting which clocks in at.......74 mins.