On vinyl
- Miles and Monk At Newport (The Monk side)
- John Coltrane A Love Supreme
- Stravinsky Ebony Concerto - Woody Herman and His Orchestra
(Stravinsky conducting the Columbia Symphony and Pierre Boulez and the Ensemble Intercontemporain are kick ass, too)
On CD
- Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section
- The Bad Plus Rite of Spring
- Anything by Dave Restivo (an old highschool buddy)
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Fusian, I see you have two of the most popular albums in jazz: John Coltrane, "A love Supreme", and "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section"; those are in almost everybody's collection. I apologize for never having heard "Dave Restivo" you're old high school buddy, but I'm going to correct that right now by pulling him up on 'you tube' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNs2sUKhuKAAnd here he is with his trio; the guy swings. Welcome to the thread, and I'll be looking forward to your many contributions. |
fusian, nice to see mention of Stravinsky’s “Ebony Concerto”. Believe it or not Stravinsky was “discussed” here quite a bit early in the thread’s life with some violent disagreement about the importance of this greatest of 20th century composers. I think that given your post it’s safe to say you are a Stravinsky fan. Pierre Boulez’ recording with Michel Arrignon playing the solo clarinet part is an infinitely better performance than Woody Herman’s, imo; and does, as you say, kick ass. Difficult clarinet part which was, despite Woody’s swinging talents, a little over his head technically. Another great 20th century composer celebrating this year what would have been his 100th birthday. The Leonard Bernstein Centennial Celebration is happening right now with a lot of his music being featured in concert halls worldwide. Another piece featuring solo clarinet which combines Jazz and Classical elements, his “Prelude, Fugue And Riffs”: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JYlHS5KHwHey Rok, if you’re out there, hope all is well. |
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Thank you for the warm welcome, guys. I was listening to another gem today: The LA 4 - Pavane Pour Une Infante Defunte. Outstanding Japanese pressing of a Neumann Direct Cut recording session at Warner Bros Studios. This one was quite hard to get, but worth all my efforts. Not only the music is awesome, but the recording is awesome as well. My fellow Brazilian classical guitar (nylon strings) player Laurindo de Almeida is joined by an outstanding lineup: Bud Shank, Shelly Manne and Ray Brown. Here´s a link to the full album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPeyqd4SRmQ&t=1523sHope you guys enjoy it! Best, Luiz Fernando |
Fusian,
Meets the Rhythm Session is one of my all time favorites! I found out about Art Pepper and this recording with Miles' band in my late teens. An audiophile friend of my dad burned me a CD-R back then... To this day, I´m still struggling to find a great press of it. All I have is this old CD-R that has been ripped since I don´t have a transport (or a cd-player for that matter) for quite a while. I love it!
Best,
Luiz Fernando |
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Luiz, interesting that a direct to disc master was reissued with a Japanese pressing. I don't pretend to have expertise with that but I'm surprised if a) WB was willing to let a D2D master out of their immediate control, and b) that a D2D master would be sent overseas.
Reading about Sheffield D2Ds years ago I thought they made a point that it was considered critical to create the stampers from the master as quickly as possible?
Can anyone more familiar with production shed some light on this?
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This is a record that I am enjoying listening to last couple of days, or better should I say, nights... Nothing new, we have mentioned Benny Golson many times, but just in case if somebody does not have this album. Strongly recommended. Benny Golson and the Philadelphians, with Lee Morgan, Ray Bryant or Boby Timmons,P. Heath and Phily Joe Jones,from 1958. https://youtu.be/hdm3DYBhJvA?list=PLUJ7V33M1wR0H0XdlCrmcrcKE7IpOozwL |
Alex, I think I have it, but I'm glad you mentioned it, because I don't recall hearing the boss tune you posted, recently for sure.
Lee Morgan brings out the best in Benny Golson. Regardless how many times we mention someone, when you're listening to something special by that someone, please share it; this is one of those tunes that's very special, and I don't immediately recall it.
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Pryso, I've been waiting for someone to answer your question, but that's not my thing; although I enjoy the best recorded CD's and records, I don't make any effort to discern anything other than the music.
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There are some good artists on Smoke Session Records to check out. The artistic and audio quality is very good.
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Yes o10, I'm waiting too, though it is not critical.
I do own a few D2D LPs, but all of them were produced by US companies. So it was just a curiosity about the Japanese pressing.
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pryso, I think that you may be misinterpreting some of what luiscfcoimbra wrote re the LA4 recording. That particular LA4 recording (direct to disc) was recorded by and issued by the now defunct Japanese record label Eastwind Records. The confusion may stem from the fact that it was recorded at Warner Bros. Studios in the USA. However, eventhough the Warner Bros. facilities were used (rented) the masters would still have been owned by Eastwind and unless there was some other contractual issue, WB would have had no say in the matter. Re your comment re the need for the stampers to be created as soon as possible:
I got to know Lincoln Mayorga on a couple of musical projects that I was a part of on which he was pianist (he is a very accomplished piano player) and we talked audio a bit. I have been meaning to contact him to say hello for a while so I put a call in to him this morning and will ask him about this issue. I will report back if I get any info.
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O-10, I enjoyed the Chico Freeman clip; it is, as you say, an interesting tune. I have owned that record since it came out and if I’m not mistaken that record was discussed a while ago.
I have never been much of a Chico Freeman fan and that record was considered his breakthrough recording and it was his best (by far) recording up to that time. Although it is an interesting tune and Freeman is the leader on the record, I think an argument can be made that Freeman is no more than a sideman on this particular tune. First, it is not Freeman’s tune, it was written by bassist McBee who sounds fantastic on it. Additionally, of all the soloists Freeman is the least distinguished, imo. Bobby Hutcherson sounds amazing on this tune and Wynton plays one the most exciting solos that I have ever heard from him; and he was twenty (!) years old at the time. Overall, interesting tune and some really great playing.
To put it into a certain perspective, I think it should be remembered that this record came out at a time when many were feeling that (real) jazz was dead and the arrival of “young lions” like Wynton who considered themselves traditionalists was considered a really big deal. This was the first record by Freeman in a more traditional bag and a departure from his prior avant-garde recordings. He is clearly a good band leader, but imo, as a saxophonist he is, to use an unfortunate recently used term, fairly irrelevant. Still, nice record. Thanks for the clip. |
Nice clip, Alex. That record is new to me; thanks for that. Beautiful playing all the way around. Great to hear Lee Morgan on muted trumpet. Interesting that he seems to take on a somewhat different personality with the mute in; less fire and aggression in his playing which comes through when unmuted even on ballads like this. Golson sounds beautiful. What a tone! Acknowledging that they are very different tunes and that the players have very different styles, it makes for an interesting contrast to Chico Freeman. The tune in your clip was composed by Golson and he improvises on it like he owns the tune. His tunes have always had interesting chord progressions and he plays on it with great conviction. He nails every single chord change with beautiful thematic development and the logic of someone who knows the tune intimately. Great stuff. |
Frogman, new people are posting who may or may not have heard this tune. While almost every tune I post will be a repeat for you; when the tune is that good, it's better to err on the repeat for those who haven't heard it. I am a Chico Freeman fan since the "Kings of Mali" that came out in 77, long before the tune I posted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFUP2LvK2sI buy records for the overall music, and not the sound of a specific instrument. Another example of an artist whose tone you criticized was "Billy Bang"; while his tone most certainly is not on par with a classical violinist, I like his music much better. Me and Billy Bang are philosophical brothers; he's a vet who had hard times in "Nam". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R22OfE5R0_0"Yo, Ho Chi Minh is in the House" Git down Charley Brown! |
O-10, I think it’s great that some things get multiple postings; especially since there are new participants here. Please don’t misinterpret my pointing out that something was posted previously as meaning that I don’t think it should be posted again; it’s a simple statement of fact and potentially interesting in a way.
Like you, I don’t buy music nor judge recordings for the sound of one particular instrument; that’s the very reason that I own that Chico Freeman record. In fact, I actually like his tone quite a bit. I just don’t particularly like him as player, nor most of his recordings. I do like Destiny’s Dance, as I said; some really good stuff on it.
I think you misunderstood what I previously opined re Billy Bang. It wasn’t his tone in particular that was the main issue for me and comparison to a Classical player is not really relevant since there are jazz violinists with tone that, while not “Classical” by any means, is excellent and I like very much. I just don’t find much to enjoy in his music and find his playing to be, overall, kind of crude. That’s just for me and I’m really glad that you find much to like in his playing.
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pryso, I heard back from Lincoln Mayorga and I told him about our discussion about DD lps and your concern about the master’s durability. He explained things this way:
There is no concern about the master’s durability other than in the way that it is handled. IOW, as long as it is handled properly, the stamper does not degrade in quality. Of course, the longer that it is handled the greater the chances that some damage can occur. From the master, anywhere from 5-15 “mothers” are made which is what are used to actually stamp the vinyl lps. It is true that generally the “mothers” are made as soon as possible in order to minimize the chances of damage to the master. The actual number of mothers is determined by various factors not the least of which is the expertise of those involved.
Lincoln is a very nice man and was intrigued and actually surprised that there was still interest in DD lps by modern day audiophiles. He had never heard of AudiogoN 😕 |
Beautiful Grappelli clip, O-10; and beautiful record. On that particular clip Grappelli actually takes a bit of a back seat to Yehudi Menuhin who plays “lead” in their wonderful duet . Menuhin was one of the greatest Classical violinists ever and could also play in other styles; particularly “gypsy violin”. To Grappelli’s credit he pretty much holds his own next to Menuhin’s amazing tone and virtuosity. Here is a live version of the tune; one can see who is playing what: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dzIEaNRoj3k |
Frogman, before I knew one genre from another, I liked Gypsy music. That was when the movies was the source of a lot of the music I heard. I'm sure I've heard Menuhin on some soundtrack in times long past. Thanks for the clip. I've been listening to an artist that I think we have overlooked; here she is on one of my favorite tunes; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZHrIsvDMmw |
Hi frog, thanks so much for all your follow up efforts on the direct disc process. I thought the master disc was the "mother" from which the stampers were produced? Saving the extra processing steps was key to their sonic qualities. So the issue was not with stamper degradation but the potential for problems before the stampers were created.
Anyway, I appreciated the background on the LA4 recording. I have a few of theirs but not that particular album. |
Now, at the danger of repeating a recommendation posted previously, I offer this. It was among the first jazz albums I bought, I was still in high school. Mulligan has been a favorite ever since. I love his small group recordings and even appreciate some of his big band efforts, although in general I'm not much into big bands. He was an artist who excelled in creative output, whether leading his own groups or sitting in with a wide variety of other major jazz musicians. I just love his tone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7BPKVjJbM |
Fantastic record and one of the best examples of piano-less quartets. Great way to be introduced to jazz! I agree about Mulligan and his tone is absolutely beautiful; very suave and warm especially considering the aggressive and edgy sound that many baritone players produce. Besides being a great and very melodic improviser he was one of the best composer/arrangers in jazz. And Art Farmer; talk about underrated! He sounds just great and a good partner to Mulligan. Thanks! Another great pairing with another very melodic and witty player: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uuFG5O8zW3Q |
Did I get a surprise today; Les Liaisons Dangereuses 1960 (Original Soundtrack), came today and it was 180 gram vinyl. This is the only orange colored LP I've ever seen, the biggest surprise was 0 record noise. They also sent a catalog which had nothing but the classic killers in it.
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"West Coast" is so "Way out"; listen to "Bernies Tune" with Hampton Hawes, Wardel Grey and crew, they interject a little West Coast Bop that's "retro", but timeless never the less.
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Nice Mulligan choices o10. Here’s a bari player I wasn’t familiar with while he was still alive. Fortunately the music lives on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degZcUFL9SAIt might require a couple of listens but I didn’t enjoy that Cherry as much as my albums with Old And New Dreams. |
Pryso, that tune was definitely not mainstream, and I was just curious to know if anybody liked it beside me. That was when Don was in his Buddhist phase.
Serge Chaloff is often overlooked, but I have appreciated him as a sideman on various records.
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Yes, nice Mulligan clips; thanks, O-10. And Serge Challof! First bebopper on the big horn and of “Four Brothers” (Woody Herman) fame. Beautiful and very expressive player. Very nice “Body And Soul”; thanks for that clip. Re Don Cherry: Well, for the first two minutes and 18 seconds it was about what I expected. Then at 2:19 it was “WHAT?!, NO WAY!”. From the first tenor note I knew it was Michael Brecker. I had no idea that Brecker had recorded with Don Cherry and it came as a big surprise. Don Cherry does the conceptual heavy lifting on this clip and leaves the instrumental heavy lifting to Brecker and the others. Can’t say I particularly liked this, but I do find it kind of interesting; although I confess to a bias for Brecker’s playing during this time period since this was, for me, the sweet spot in the evolution of his tenor tone. I listened to the rest of the record and I can do without it. Back to baritone saxophone: My all-time favorite baritone sound (pre-bebop) and which can be heard as an influence in Serge Chaloff’s low register playing. Hard to imagine Duke Ellington’s band without the underpinning of Harry Carney’s beautiful and robust sound: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brqxEdwsTQshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVtNIS0jFmcHere’s an interesting record with the great Gerry Mulligan and Stan Getz. Interesting because on the first three tunes they switch horns; Mulligan players tenor and Getz plays baritone! : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQkaI9Y2QA |
o10, I have maybe 20 Brubeck albums and that one must be in my top 5. But no, I've never actually rated them all. ;^)
frog, that Mulligan/Getz album is the one I have. Also I should have known that Chaloff was one of the famed Four Brothers. My excuse is the Herman albums in my collection seem to be from the mid-60s onward.
And yes, Carney was another who had a beautiful sound. This may be true with any instrument, but the potential for the tonalities make both the bari and tenor sax favorite instruments for me.
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Gene Ammons is my pick of the litter. |
Sometimes we are going in circles here,but than again, its a nature of things... Let us not skip Cecil Payne...couple of albums that I have, as sideman and a leader... with Randy Weston, from 'Jazz a la Bohemia', the year is 1956. https://youtu.be/SkGpT9g4O6gsame but the title... from 'With these hands'... https://youtu.be/hAPAW07ju1Uas a leader, from a 'Patterns of Jazz' with Kenny Dorham and Duke Jordan https://youtu.be/5nmjj2qStpg |
o10, not to discredit Adams (I enjoy him too) but Ronnie Cuber is given credit for the bari work on the Mingus album.
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Pryso, Mingus "Moanin" is from the album "Blues and Roots"; here are the tunes and artists;
"Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting" – 5:39
"Cryin' Blues" – 4:58
"Moanin'" – 8:01
"Tensions" – 6:27
"My Jelly Roll Soul" – 6:47
"E's Flat Ah's Flat Too" – 6:37
Personnel[edit]
Charles Mingus – bass
John Handy – alto sax
Jackie McLean – alto sax
Booker Ervin – tenor sax
Pepper Adams – baritone sax
Jimmy Knepper – trombone
Willie Dennis – trombone
Dannie Richmond – drums
Horace Parlan – piano, except for "E's Flat Ah's Flat Too"
Mal Waldron – piano on "E's Flat Ah's Flat Too"
Pepper Adams is an artist I identify by sound; you know your friends by sight, I know Pepper Adams by sound; while I didn't know the artists on this tune, I would have bet my left testicle that was Pepper Adams on baritone sax.
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Alex, it sounds better the second time around; you can focus on any instrument you glossed over the first time. Alex I'm a stickler for detail; the shoes the guy in the picture is wearing are black tassle. I thought they were "super cool" and had a pair in high school in 56. Mine were exactly like the brown one's, only black. https://www.google.com/search?q=tassel++shoes&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=8TYjZwCm...: This music is "super cool" too. |
O-10, pryso is correct. In fact, that is not Mingus’ band at all, but the "Mingus Big Band" which is run by Sue Mingus in a local NYC club with regular weekly date there and plays Mingus’ music. Ronnie Cuber is the baritone. Great player with a very fat, but less edgy tone than Pepper and a bit of a "funk" influence in his style which can be heard here. That is a 1993 recording. |
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