Jazz for aficionados
o10, complying with your "revised" rules -- ;^) -- I offer this. If jazz aficionados of a certain age don't recognize the drum intro then the fist four notes on the piano should do it. And yes, it is pretty spare all the way through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkH-d0IoAU |
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One more for the road. That time frame is working out real well for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k94zDsJ-JMU |
**** if I put that record on, I would still say it was Monk, and I bet in a blind test, that you, Frogman the musician would say the same thing. **** O-10, I hope you don’t bet too much 😉; I doubt I would confuse Horace Silver for Monk. HOWEVER!, do you realize that Monk does, in fact, play on Miles’ “Bag’s Groove”? May explain why you think it’s Monk. |
Let’s keep the games going. This one a little different. As we all know, it has been established and declared by a well known jazz authority that there is only one single drum solo in all of jazz recorded history that is not boring 😊. Before we get to the painfully boring drum solo by, what was that amateur’s name?....oh, yeah, Philly Jo Jones we hear Lee Morgan play a wrong note. Can you tell where that wrong note is? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7Yl7v9RIU No copouts about how “there are no wrong notes in jazz” allowed, and yes, of course I was being facetious about Jo Jones; he kills on that tune. Hint: it happens in the first minute of music. |
frog, if I’m the one you had in mind when teasing about the "one single drum solo" that was not boring then I need to correct two points. First, I’m just an average jazz fan, not any sort of authority. Second, the Morello example I promoted is not the "only" drum solo which I don’t find boring, just the best example for me of those which are not. That Art Blakey guy wasn’t bad either, or Philly Jo, or Shelly Manne, or DeJohnette, or . . . Now if that was intended for someone else, forget all this. ;^) |
Exhibit #1: Why drum solos suck. This is a tune being played by my favorite, and currently the best Jazz Band playing.. Outstanding playing throughout. Even the drum solo is better than most. I love the way all the band members soloed in rotation. Even the bass solo was good. The Bass is usually as much of an intrusion as the drums when soloing. I did notice that when the drummer (Ali Jackson!!) is playing his solo, the rest of band stops playing. Maybe that's the problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7eeb1MTkUY Cheers |
Because, first, it is not the correct note of the head (melody). Secondly, Rok, who plays the trumpet can confirm that with the trumpet it is possible to play more than one note with the same fingering; the harmonic series at work. It is very difficult to consistently play multiple high C’s on the trumpet. Thirdly, in case there’s still doubt, listen to the melody at the end of the tune and compare to the melody at the beginning. At :30 Morgan plays the wrong note (Bb) when it should have been a C. Now fast forward to the end of the tune and listen to the return of the melody. At 5:55 Morgan plays the correct note (C). It might be more obvious if you listen to the melody at the end of the tune and then at the beginning; this lays bare the wrong note. |
Here's another well known tune, by a well known artist that you can identify on the opening. This is probably the most recorded tune in all of jazz; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r77GLcGlvQ |
I think Ali Jackson’s solo is great! Completely appropriate and idiomatic; which is more than can be said about Clapton’s. Yikes! A little out of his league I think. Re drum solos in general: Wether we like drum solos or not there is a certain “jazz dynamic” that I think should be considered; it may not make everyone start to like drum solos but may put things in better context and perhaps help dislike them less . pryso alluded to this in an earlier post and Rok’s Wynton clip is a great example. It’s sort of an unwritten rule that in certain situations everyone gets to solo; everyone gets to tell his story. This goes to the communal element in jazz; kind of an old school respect thing. During my college days in South Florida there was a weekly jam session at the local Unitarian Church led by the local jazz guru the great Ira Sullivan. It was open to anyone who wanted to play and also attracted an audience. At least every other weekend this guy who clearly had a few screws loose and who fancied himself a percussionist would show up to “play”. Horrible doesn’t begin to describe the sh&t this guy would play; completely out of time. He was musically clueless. Ira would NEVER say a word and always let the guy play as long as he wanted. Imagine a grooving band and someone hammering next door building cabinets. |
If there is a jazz musician that deserves more recognition and deserves the “underground” mythical reputation that he has it is Ira Sullivan. A product of the Chicago jazz scene of the ‘50s he moved to and remained in South Florida and somewhat out of the limelight, but continued to record as leader and as sideman. A bebopper at heart he nevertheless evolved with the changing jazz times as credibly as anyone. He is a freakishly accomplished multi instrumentalist who sounds at home on all the saxophones, flutes, trumpet and flugelhorn. Amazing! One of my favorite flugelhorn players. Co-leader with Red Rodney: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sFHLhSIIzsQ On trumpet: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KQDYZfik1iA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h5M9uXHBoaU On flute: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lThkdIa80 On tenor: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yxSFknFSWuw As leader on trumpet and baritone (!): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CTcSt9ozZc One of the most beautiful soprano saxophone sounds: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oor_XcIrUmg Did I mention that I like this guy’s playing? 😊 |
That record, "The Breeze and I", by Joe Diorio, and Ira Sullivan, had one of the most beautiful versions of "I Wish You Love" I've ever heard. If it's available, I'll get it. I like Red Rodney's "Star Eyes" as well; is that available? Ira Sullivan's "Jitterbug Waltz" made me think of another version; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C6GgL4T9W8 |
Crwindy, somehow my statement in regard to your post on Shirley Horne didn't come out quite right. I hope it didn't discourage you. As you can see we're a free wheeling bunch; some of us are playing my game, others are submitting Christmas music, we even have some New Orleans blues; so just jump in with whatever you feel comfortable. |
Wow, stay away for a few hours (I normally only visit once a day) and now so much to comment on. Good show guys! First I must clarify that I don't consider most drum solos to "suck", I merely fail to find them interesting. They don't add anything to the story of the tune as frogman so aptly describes. I agree with adding many bass solos to this rant. And luckily I never heard that jerk in Florida. ;^) Then rok, thanks for that link. As expected Wynton and his band really swung. But I would call that a "percussion" solo rather than a drum solo. o10, yes, Miles is nearly always identified in just the first few notes. But unless someone heard that version of "'Round Midnight" I doubt they would guess the tune by the intro. But at 0:30, five notes and every jazz fan should know! frog, I have that album by Sullivan and Rodney -- good stuff. Now how many know the story when Red Rodney was in Charlie Parker's band, when they toured the south he was called "Albino Red" since mixed groups were not allowed to perform together or stay at the same hotel in many places? |
Glad you guys enjoyed the Ira clips; amazing musician. O-10, the Red Rodney recording can be purchased as part of this CD reissue set: https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/red-rodney-albums/5289-borrowed-times-red-rodney-quintets-1955-195... Joe Diorio/Ira Sullivan “The Breeze And I”: https://www.amazon.com/Breeze-Joe-Diorio-Ira-Sullivan/dp/B007N7WFXS Btw, enjoyed the Cecile McLorent clip. That was probably my favorite thing of hers that I have heard. As I believe I mentioned in a previous discussion, I haven’t been much of a fan of hers. I find her singing a bit too affected sometimes with too many forced inflections and attempts at “color”....not that kind 😉; but that was really good. I may have to give her music another chance. Thanks. pryso, yes, great story about “Albino Red”. |
Although this tune has been on before, I didn't recognize it, and it really impressed me; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi3i-HqDNFI |
Great tune! Most think it’s a Bill Evans tune because he recorded it and performed it so often, but it’s actually a Miles composition. The tune has kind of an Eastern flavor and is one of Miles’ first modal tunes predating KOB which would be the first major statement of modal jazz. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oxzeDpBvxv4 It was written for this session: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq6TkTDqY_o |
Mingus under attack by strange creatures with pink hair and nose rings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx4pxOQvlKo Cheers I did dig the chick. |
rok, thanks so much for that link. Mingus is one of my favorite artists and I will watch the entire program. But at 2 hours that will likely be after returning home from a holiday family visit. For anyone interested in Mingus if you've not read his autobiography "Beneath The Underdog" it is certainly entertaining. Part must be categorized as fiction -- but that was just Mingus! o10, I'm also a big fan of Silver. When in college I made a feeble attempt to learn playing an upright bass to jam with friends more musically talented than myself. My buddy who played piano was primarily influenced by Silver so that was the style of what we played. He had natural talent and was self-taught and (fortunately for me) played everything in the same key -- C I was told. One of the other guys showed me a basic walking bass pattern on the piano so I found those notes on my bass. I had just enough of an ear to find other notes so I was close to being in tune. ;^) That lasted nearly two years and we developed a repertoire of jazz classics with a few popular songs thrown in. We played a few parties (for food and beer) but my lack of talent held us back so it didn't go any further. But that focused me on bass players which is why Mingus remains one of my overall favorite musicians. |
“.....and on the bass, please give a round of applause for pryso!” 😎 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKdiz8RaIPQ |
Hey frog, that Mingus album is among his in my collection. Do you know about his connections with Joni Mitchell? They had a correspondence over his last year or so, which led to her album in tribute to him - "Mingus". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0-OAMyAew He died at 56 from ALS in Mexico. There was a story that 56 whales mysteriously beached themselves on the Pacific Coast that day but I find that difficult to accept. |
Thanks for that, pryso. Love Mingus and love Mitchell. I am aware of the connection, but have only heard a couple of the songs off that record. I went through a period when I wanted to hear every single thing that Jaco Pastorius (another South Florida hero) ever did. I’ll listen to the album in its entirety tonight. Hadn’t heard the whale story. Difficult to accept as you say, but...... |
Frogman, I find your comment much more interesting than mine, which was a nothing comment, but the fact that you made it serious is much more significant. Do you think that comment should be removed? There are people who make a big deal about a comment like mine, but never see the homeless people in our big cities, or how jobs in this country have been "off shored" as a result of NAFTA , CAFTA and a host of other trade agreements Frogman I'm already in trouble for informing people of how the wealth of this country has been transferred to the oligarchs. I admit it's nice when you're on the receiving end of the transfer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6niWzomA_So&t=2170s Otherwise it's not so nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqjJJgjVHlU&list=PL51CPD51hq2TZZVQ8LHwEqwxpY-5DfE51 This stuff was designed by perverse depraved politicians in expensive suits, and you call these thieves "Your Country" when they only steal from poor people who can't defend themselves; CUT THE FOOD STAMPS, AND LET THEM EAT CAKE. Maybe you can get me kicked off this forum and take over the thread after this post. |
Homeless Clips: Parents used to tell their children, "do not believe everything you hear". Modern day parents can add to that, "do not believe everything you SEE. Were/are they really homeless? Who knows. Even if they were/are, none of them blamed anyone but themselves. I give them credit for that. Dysfunctional people and their dysfunctional families are more at play here than NAFTA or Oligarchs. How can a woman be sleeping on the streets in Philly and at the same time have Children with homes? How can a woman on heroin treatment be pregnant? Why would man who is homeless, stay in LA, as he said, one of the most expensive places in the USA. Just asking. Lay off that Kool-Aid Cheers |
Pryso, If I may suggest an album that I have, been posted here before. Its Mundell Lowe Quartet 'A grand night for swinging' from 1957. https://youtu.be/mKb68eNtTvU On piano is Bill Taylor. Another album that you may like is his trio, with Candido https://youtu.be/qKH34bHcEbw Now, if the game is still on, here are some of my rather obvious suggestions....in random order First, standard 'Grooveyard' by Carl Perkins, the pianist, not the rocker, played here by Wes Montgomery and many others, choose your pick... https://youtu.be/hFv4gs70TNw Than, perhaps, also very famous tune, but played by guitarist... Grant Green 'My Favourite things' https://youtu.be/Fnk3dLXnHiY This is too obvious, but I must....Tommy Flanagan 'Angel Eyes' https://youtu.be/v6UZTw1uHmk Again, sorry for a such 'easy' tunes...Art Pepper 'You'd be so nice to come home to' https://youtu.be/xISaCzXYYg8 One of my favourit pianists....Wynton Kelly 'Sweet as morning sunrise' https://youtu.be/ldTIXsCXJhc |
O -10 , lighten up, please . My comment was a humorous one; a joke, JOKE! in reference to all the sexual harassment allegations in the news recently; nothing more. It should have been obvious especially being on the heels of my comment to pryso just before it. Moreover, I have not “engaged” in any subject except music with you, so please leave me out of this. Having said all that, my apology, I’ll try and remember to no bring humor to my comments intended for you. |
Nice clips, Alex. Ok, it’s time to lighten up the mood and to up the ante in the games dept. Challenge: Why is the following clip appropriate for the Holiday Season? Hint: Listen carefully. 😎 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5kiY9tKkvtk |
The rules of the game changed, or at least my understanding of them. But at my age I'm easily confused it seems. ;^) Anyway, I thought o10 was originally suggesting submitting songs/artists where the musical message was conveyed by the fewest notes, i.e. with significant space between them. That's why I nominated Basie. But if I now understand things what he was really asking for is submission of songs which can be identified by the fewest introductory notes. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a different game. Carry on all . . . |
