o10, so many great drummers in jazz, from Blakey to Dejohnette and many, many others. But aside from basic time keeping, for my money Morello was the most lyrical and thus interesting drummer when it came to solos. I may have posted this previously here but I'll offer it again so others won't need to search back. It is the singularly best drum solo I've experienced - so varied and inventive. Talk to me baby! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbR8G6YNuUM |
Joe Morello was the drummer with a different beat, no other like him, and this is one of his best solos.
It's for certain, that I can't think of a better solo by anyone, or maybe we should say as "unique" to be absolutely correct.
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Thanks for your concern Pryso, but I just remembered I personally know the owner of vintage vinyl, and I can find what to buy and send them my list to be mailed, but that's not the same as actually inspecting the records before you buy; no longer an option. |
That period of time was Dave Brubeck's, and Joe Morello's time; I remember it ever so well; every time you turned on the radio, you heard something new by Dave and Joe.
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I remember when I was a child with my Grandmother who was in pain, and I asked her why was she aching, did she hurt herself; "No child, I've got arthritis" she responded.
"Grandma, I ain't gonna never get old, and get arthritis" I told her, she just smiled; it's all in the genes.
One of these days it's going to be all over.
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“Lyrical” is the perfect way to describe Morello’s playing. That clip of “Castilian Drums” is fantastic, pryso and makes the case beautifully. Wonderful drummer with a beautiful ease to his playing. He never banged on the drums nor forced the rhythm. It should be noted that an important aspect of his playing which contributed to his lyricism was the attention he payed to the tuning of his drums to specific pitches; easily heard in his solos. In my book the only other drummer who could equal him and arguably surpass his sense of lyricism was Max Roach: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_voXNIsobs |
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I agree that most drum solos can be boring. They seem like token efforts to give some spotlight to the drummer. Something I found irritating was local musician concerts (which I otherwise heartily endorse) developed a trend where every musician seemed to take a solo on every number. I could never understand how that got started? But since it wasn't fair to expect the creativity of a Morello or Roach (or many other accomplished drummers) among our local talent that simply increased the boredom. Speaking of a jazzy Christmas, out local college FM jazz station sponsored a concert last evening with their recently formed jazz band playing the respective scores from Duke Ellington and Shorty Rogers recordings of The Nutcracker Suite. They did a great job and I particularly enjoyed the Rogers' version, something like this - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXzrbaE7M-jL86Zk2_wJQxRMFeowfDgqK |
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Glass of chardonnay and Ascenseur pour l'échafaud |
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Here's one by Blakey that I don't think we've heard; it has one of the hippest lineups ever in the "Jazz Messengers" group; possibly any group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmge2vurDNYArt Blakey – drums Lee Morgan - trumpet Hank Mobley - tenor saxophone Bobby Timmons – piano Jymie Merritt – bass I pick the late 50's as the very best time ever for jazz; and this group was certainly among the best exponents; of course this is a very personal observation. |
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Former Miles guitarist Mike Stern broke both arms when he fell last year. Would he ever play again? He was shortly playing with a glove with a pick glued to it. Would he ever fully be back to world class? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcaQGE1IxgVery nice new recording called strangely "TRIP". |
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I Went to physical therapy and Christmas music was coming over the PA system. It was the same old Christmas music we have been hearing all of our lives; even when we were praying for that bicycle to be under the Christmas tree. Although I'm a jazz aficionado, the closer it gets to Christmas, the more I like that music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EgZAajTf08 |
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Thank you all so much for recommending Audra McDonald. Just finding her and enjoying her music very much.
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I want to play a game. Now in order to play this game, you have to be the real deal, you can not be a fake aficionado, you have to be the real McCoy. This game requires as much sensitivity as the musicians who create this music. Normally I make a statement like, "In my opinion" before stating something, but this time I'm going to make statements that I consider "definitive"; objective statements. In order to play this game, you can agree with me, or make statements that you consider equally definitive, and more objective. You must also post a link to illustrate your statement. This is about the fewest notes in jazz that have said the most. So that we don't get off track, I will state a time frame, but if you think of something just outside of that time, that's cool too. My time frame is from 1955 through 1960. The tune I pick is "Moanin" and the pianist is Bobby Timmons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv9NSR-2DwMThe first one minute of this tune established Bobby Timmons as the artist who could say the most with the least amount of notes for all eternity. |
Shirley Horn also uses "empty space" to make musical statements. |
Well o10, we know Oscar Peterson is out of contention in this game. And while I agree the Timmons selection is great, here is the most "economical" pianist I know of. It seemed like on some tunes you could "Count" his notes on two hands. No matter if he simply sat at the keyboard, his band was always swinging hard! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcWW-fMt90 |
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Crwindy, I welcome you to this thread. That was a very astute observation, but space is 0 notes, and would not be applicable to the challenge I presented; however, the music before and after the space would be applicable. I assume you made your statement in jest? On the serious side, this challenge requires a few decades of listening to jazz, and a lot of thought; only a longtime aficionado would even rise to the challenge. If you qualify, post a link that rises to the occasion of saying a lot in very few words or notes; this can occur anywhere in the message of the tune, beginning, middle or end; the whole tune even? I wish you well, and hope you make many contributions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbW3RT4GJI |
The correct answer is The Count or The Duke or Monk / Mingus.
Fast and loud, is a trait of modern, present day 'Jazz'. Guys, mostly failed rockers, have defaulted to 'playing Jazz'. The blues is no where is sight.
As the great Jazz authority, Rok2id, once said:
No Blues, No Jazz. Know Blues, Know Jazz.
Cheers
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Mine was just a generic statement about the use of space in music. A talent that Shirley Horn had in abundance. |
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Very good Acman, you rose to the challenge; the first few notes of "If I Were a Bell", established itself as that Miles tune, which was a highly significant tune.
As many times as I have heard that tune, I just realized how significant it is, and I don't have that album in my collection presently, although I had it. Over these many years I have lost numerous jazz albums to some mystical form of attrition that occurred when I gave parties, and ganja was part of my religion. (that was a very long time ago)
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Crwindy, I totally agree with you about Shirley Horne.
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Very interesting post Rok, now post which one of the tunes that meets the challenge by those artists.
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Pryso, the Basie tune doesn't qualify because there are so many other things going on. The Miles tune qualifies in regard to number of notes and space, but the beginning is kind of "abstract", plus it takes a lot of notes combined to make a significant statement.
If there is anyone qualified to rise to this challenge, you are. As this game goes along and you see what I'm looking for, you'll get better.
The few notes must make a significant statement that's imprinted on your mind, as are the first few notes of "If I Were a Bell" and "Moanin".
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Bill Evans is very "Christmassy"; he captures the spirit of the season, and reminds me a little bit of "Peanuts"; you know, with Charley Brown, Lucy and the gang.
This is the season, and that last tune captures it like a beautiful Christmas Card.
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Here is another tune that lets you know at the very beginning in few notes that you are about to hear something spectacular; the beginning notes are a prelude to one of the most well known tunes in jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1GrP6thz-k |
Interesting game, O-10; and potentially a lot of fun. The criteria are a little vague, however. You state: *** This is about the fewest notes in jazz that have said the most.*** This is something that usually refers to a player’s improvisation. Using that criteria pryso’s vote is hard to beat and crwindy makes a good point. However, during the first minute of your clip Timmons plays three repetitions of the A section of his great tune (classic AABA form) for a total of 102 notes. So, I guess melodies of tunes are included as part of the criteria; no problem. Giving the game and the premise “the benefit of the doubt” let’s consider just one A section. So, he plays a total of 34 notes; not even close to being the winner. Here’s a contender; 9 (!) notes: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QTMqes6HDqU |
o10, yes, frogman explained my confusion. I was thinking of the whole tune, not just the opening stanza. Still I admit my post was not the example I wanted, just because there was so much else going on with the band that Count’s few but well placed contributions were mask over. What I really had in mind were examples from Basie’s recordings on Pablo in small group settings rather than big band. They offer many examples of Basie’s use of "space between the notes", but were also outside of your stated timeframe. So from an overall perspective of basic style, I can’t think of another musician who better fits your description. But I do stand by my suggestion of "Blue In Green". Now this is a mixture of space and runs, just as Monk frequently played. But it is difficult not to toss it into the ring for consideration - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC68NtEmAcc |
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Rok, although she might not be well known, Rene Marie is a diva. Either you or Frogman posted an album that I bought.
Yes Rok, Whitney Houston was a great loss; I find it very painful that I've known people personally who I miss because of drugs.
Although I'm not going to a pain clinic, I know my pain is going to get worse, and I always said that I would never become a "junky", now I don't know; but if people only became junkys because of pain that comes so often with age, Whitney Houston and a lot of other young people would still be alive.
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Frogman, since I'm not a musician, it's impossible for me to state anything in the same terms as you; I state things in terms of "feel" and recognition; which is another reason I stated this game would be difficult for anyone other than longterm aficionados. Right off the top of his head, Acman came up with a real winner that I'll have to buy. That's what I'm talking about. Although I didn't specify, the tune must be one that aficionados will immediately recognize, because they've heard it so many times, now I'm including "recognition"; this is not a technical game. After realizing that Crwindy was right, in regard to space, I posted an example of Shirley Horne's use of space. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHold6ylvEMNow would you rate this one? |
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Pryso, that Monk is an absolute winner. I've got a funny story about Miles and Monk.
Miles was making a record, and him and Monk had an argument over next to nothing; Miles said he didn't want Monk's plinking and plunking. Now here's where it gets real funny; I have this record of Miles, and I always think the piano is Monk, but it's Horace Silver. After all these years, if I put that record on, I would still say it was Monk, and I bet in a blind test, that you, Frogman the musician would say the same thing.
After the argument, Monk walked out, so now there's no Monk, and his plinking and plunking was what Miles needed on a specific cut. Miles told Horace Silver to do that "Monk thing" on that cut.
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C’mon O-10, no need to get defensive and no technical game playing here. You said "fewest notes"; no? That's technical; no? Now, are you saying most aficionados won’t recognize "Naima"? It’s one of Trane’s best known. Seems to me that feeling backed by facts is always best. Here, I’ll try it again; hope it works better for you: Even fewer notes than "Moanin"; one of Trane’s best known: https://youtu.be/QTMqes6HDqU |
Frogman, this is the second time you posted that. I was just hadn't gotten around to commenting on it, but it's a winner.
Although I'm the OP, this is not an autocracy; all the members of this thread have a say in how things work. Music, and jazz especially are quite abstract, consequently it takes back and forth chatter for things to be settled.
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