Jazz for aficionados

Here is definitive proof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQklo6eX48

O-10:
This was recommended from another thread.  On the Blue Note Label.  You are the broadest minded aficionado on this thread.   What do you think?   What is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3a3RxVTuNc

Judging by his name, I thought he was some old timer that used to play with Pops.  Silly me.

I saw this after clicking of the first  clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1MbKD1DRwM

Ghosthouse, very nice clip!  Great electric bass player with a sound clearly traceable back to the Jaco revolution.  A little research showed that my initial hunch was correct about the guitar player on that cut.  Frank Gambale is probably my favorite fusion guitarist and I first got to know his playing from Chick Corea's "Elektric Band" projects.  Killer electric guitar sound!  Love his singing tone and formidable technique which he never uses for pointless "thrashing".  Thanks for the clip.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLuQwmUf5lFVBSJJyqG4-CRBXHZ8fz7xmP&v=XCFQEBLFI4w

More interesting and thought provoking reading for the inquisitive:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/10/31/how-ken-burns-murdered-jazz/

I posted some (not the overproduced stuff) Trombone Shorty about two years ago.  This narrow-minded "Aficionado" will gladly offer some thoughts if the "O-10 Exclusivity Restriction" is lifted 😉

Thanks for the proof, Acman3 😉. Great tune!

Btw, thanks for those Carlos Oliva clips. You have no idea what a warm blast from the past those were. I worked with Carlos Oliva during my Miami college days when he produced/directed a couple of the early Miami Sound Machine records before the band became "Gloria Estefan and The Miami SM". The band used to record in a little Miami recording studio named "Miami Sound"; hence the name.

BTW, as an "antidote" to lack of friendliness and basic civility, I am hereby lifting the "Exclusivity Restricition" to anyone who wants to comment on any of my posts; regardless of the addressee 😔

Real Jazz was specifically "African American", it emanated from the depths of the souls of those ghettos in Chicago and New York; I am referring to urban "Modern Jazz".

Miles Davis, has been given far too much credit for being the spokesman for this music, so has Wynton Marsalis. (Frogman, I am speaking of a specific frame of time; 1950 to 65.)

No longer am I specifically into "Bebop", but the music that was also created during that time frame by some of the same musicians.

This music emanated from the souls of the people whose ancestors were slaves, and they came north to the big cities for a better life, only to find a different kind of hell, almost as bad as slavery; although nothing on Gods green earth has ever been created worse than slavery.

The music "jazz", in the big cities is about "African American" life in the big cities. When and where the economic realities are horrendous, the human soul must find some solace, and that solace was "Jazz"; it expressed the frustrations, it also expressed the undefinable joys of being Black, not just Black, but the most unique race of people to ever exist on planet earth; that is because they have drawn from the most infinite gene pool to ever exist: all the tribes of Black Africa, plus all the European genes as well; which explains Black people with blue eyes. That race of people exhibited the most incredible inventiveness ever witnessed, most of which was stolen by white people.

Presently, that same resourcefulness, will be the only thing to get the working class out of poverty that has been created in the last 30 years.

Acman, "Nigerian Market Place" is extremely beautiful music. Usually, when I begin a statement like this, there is a "But", but in this instance, there are no buts.


Enjoy the music.

Great Post O-10.   If I may add:

Black music is the ONLY music that was created in America.   The only music Indigenous to this country.   That fact just drives some folks nuts.   Makes them do desperate and futile searches on Google / Wiki trying to gain some relief from their pain.

Reminds of what the kid said to "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, "Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so.    Sorry kid, it's so.

Now, if we want some actual evidence of 'influence', you can find it in Europe.   Evidence that all other 'American' music came from Europe.  You can hear it today, in any European town / village.   They still play it.   They still dance to it just like they do here.   Country and Western, Bluegrass, Mountain music, being the best examples.  Right out of Scotland / Ireland.

Cheers

Trombone Shorty is full of life; a unique southern kind of life that believes in "You got to take what you can git"; not what's best for you or what you want.

Trombone Shorty is saying he's looking at what's available, and he is going to git him some. He is also singing about the reality he is seeing in the "Southern Ghetto"; more manufactured poverty, and the violence that always goes with it.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, "Trombone Shorty" is talking to me and I hear him; he's speaking his "Southern Soul", he's got a hard way to go, but those African and European genes he acquired from his ancestors forced indulgences, are not going to let him quit.

**** not just Black, but the most unique race of people to ever exist on planet earth ****

Now, if that isn't racist I don't know what is.  The crazy thing is, O-10, you then go on to support everything that you argued against for the last several days:

**** because they have drawn from the most infinite gene pool to ever exist: all the tribes of Black Africa, plus all the European genes as well; ****

A pretty good ethnological/musicological description of the roots of Jazz, I would say.  I thought your argument was that there was no African influence; never mind all the other ethnic influences?  Moreover, for whatever it's worth, Rok argued AGAINST the genetics factor and described it as an indication of racism.

I will concede that describing ideas in writing is not easy; however, the best we can do is take written words at face value.  However, as is often the case, there is a stunning, let's say, "fly with the wind" quality about much of what gets written here with dramatic contradictions for the sake of supporting and buttressing a point of view, however ill-conceived, that one is entrenched in.

**** Presently, that same resourcefulness, will be the only thing to get the working class out of poverty that has been created in the last 30 years.****

Agreed!  The solutions ultimately have to come from within.  Can't keep blaming wh*+tey forever.

Frogman, you sure know how to write, but you don't know how to reason; when genes are dispersed in such a casual manner, the only thing certain is the origin of the genes; the Black genes came from Africa. If you had studied all the various tribes of Africa as I have, you know what an incredibly diverse place it was before "they sold slaves". Unless the genes were dispersed scientifically, there could be no conclusion of who has them, or how they will be manifested.

People Black as the Ace of Spades have managed to be successful in the European manner when they came out of slavery; how this occurred is a mystery to "everybody". It's no mystery how the light skinned blacks who were educated because they were the masters offspring prospered; but how Black people as black as the Ace of spades prospered is most certainly a mystery to me.

When discussing something of this nature, a million people and a 50 year time span is not exorbitant.

When talking about anything or anybody, the most important question is; who was his daddy. Then we can go from there. Was he the little baby boy who was delivered to the penthouse in New York, or was he the sharecroppers son. (no matter what color, he got a tough roe to hoe.)

It's not a matter of blaming "Whitey" because he's in the same boat; the aristocracy has played it that way.

Schubert, with you at the Frogman's side, what has he to fear?

O-10:

The Wikiman has long been accepted, and established, by popular consensus, as the go-to guy for all things music on Audiogon.   Therefore, he can NEVER be wrong,  or at least he can NEVER admit it, without losing some of luster off his reputation.

So quite naturally, all the members(audiophiles) support him.   He's one of them.   He can even hear wire.   Which is even more amazing than his nonsensical pronouncements on the origins of Jazz.   I think we should just understand all this and move on.

We know the truth and we have spoken it.   All the Wikiman knows is what he learned in school.  We should not blame him, people go to school to learn.   The problem is, he never saw the larger picture, or the proper context of what he was being taught.  

I think our school was a little different.  We learned the official line, and lived and experienced the real line.

Jazz anyone?

O-10, you never said if Trombone Shorty was playing Jazz or not.

Cheers

@frogman - pleased you enjoyed the Bunny Brunel clip.  YES!  Frank Gambale...you are exactly right about that  For me it was a bit of serendipity as I'd recently been enjoying Steve Smith/Vital Information "Come On In".  Became aware of Gambale there.  Great sound.  Great inventive playing I thought.  The SQ on that Momentum recording...even from Spotify is really really good.

@rok2id - You have much to offer in this thread as you have repeatedly demonstrated.  While I understand you disagree with Frogman (and others) on various matters related to jazz and "audiophilia",  ridicule does not advance your position(s).  It has progressed beyond childish and tedious to generally unpleasant, becoming  a good reason not to follow this thread or at least your contributions to it. 

Frogman, the smartest people in this country are "White"; the dumbest people in this country are "White"; the richest people in this country are "White"; the poorest people in this country are "White"; I believe you could call this a "White" country; would you disagree with that.

***** t has progressed beyond childish and tedious to generally unpleasant, becoming  a good reason not to follow this thread or at least your contributions to it.*****

Well, I certainly would not want to  diminish the interest  of potential contributors to the thread.   Maybe what I need is a short 'Time Out'.

However, I will be 'lurking'.

Cheers

Rok, "Jazz" is music from the soul, it's about what you feel, it does not require your intellect.

Trombone Shorty is playing the jazz of the Southern Ghetto of New Orleans; he is pouring out his frustrations and desires through his music.

Those Southern musicians were always very honest in their music; just as "Trombone Shorty" is. I will be listening and commenting more on "Trombone Shorty".

Frogman, truce; I was listening to this, and I wondered what you would think about it; I considered it beautiful music without considering "genre"; that's not always important.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxiMprePISA


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygb-JDuAYOo

As usual, in the absence of a sound argument, ridicule becomes the fallback position.  The shame in all of this absurdity is that, because of an inability to accept and deal with one's limitations, the real greatness, complexity and depth of this art form and it's history is missed.  How ironic is that?

There are two kinds of people, and as concerns this thread, listeners:  one type of listener loves the music and embraces the fact that how much there is to learn about this music is practically endless; and, understands that only with this attitude can the deepest appreciation of this music be possible.  Humility in deference to the music.  The other type of listener loves the music, but loves the fact that he loves the music even more.  He identifies with it in a way that lets personal issues color (sorry) the reality of everything from the actual qualiy of the music to the obvious significance of the fact that every serious commentator and practitioner of that very music holds a viewpoint different from his own.  Duke, Armstrong, Coltrane, Bird, Wynton and everyone else are wrong and he's right because he knows better;  HE "knows the truth".  

O-10, if history is any indication I have much reason to be suspicious of your desire for a "truce".  Ultimately, not much to lose except a few minutes of typing and, as always and contrary to assertions elsewhere, I hope I am wrong.  

"The Final Comedown":  What do I think?  Pleasant enough.  VERY 70's.  Had I not known it was music written for a movie I would have guessed as much.  Nothing to criticize and nothing to particularly dislike.  Both pieces do a good job of eliciting a "mood" as movie music should and I liked "Luanna's Theme" best.  Well performed studio recording with a little too much reverb all the way around as was typical of the 70's movie score sound.  I found it listenable and pleasant, but not exactly music that I would call beautiful nor buy; but that's just me and I'm glad you found more to like than I.  

Far more interesting than the music (for me) is the story behind that recording,  First of all, it's a bit of a mystery why this is credited as a Grant Green project,  None of the music was composed nor produced by Green and he appears only in a supporting role as a player; and minimally at that on most cuts.  While we are not concerning ourselves with music genre, the film itself is an example of a very controversial film genre and I suppose that these clips are fitting given recent conversations here.  The film is part of the genre known as "blaxploitation" or "blacksplotation" that arose during the 70's and was widely criticized by organizations like the NAACP for perpetuating negative stereotypes of Blacks.  

The music "Trombone Shorty" is playing is uniquely his, and he's part of New Orlean at the Jazz & Heritage Festival.

Rok, whether or not a piece of music is jazz, can cause more trouble than it's worth; if you like and buy the music, you have the right to identify it.

This is considered to be the very latest "jazz" and I'm giving you guys first crack at it. Listen with an open mind, but first listen.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpm2GTyTW4

Yes, he is very "New Orleanian" - anyone who thinks New Orleans is a SOuthern city, probably also thinks it is an American city.

or a Caribbean city, or a french or Spanish colonial city

Ok, so this may come across as suspect; but, here goes.  In my comments about O-10's David Weiss clip I was going to make the point that the composition sounded like something Wayne Shorter would write.  Finally having a moment to write I noticed Acman3 had posted a clip by Weiss: "Endangered Species/The Music Of Wayne Shorter".  Ha!  He is clearly a Wayne Shorter fan; and it reads in his compositions.  

I like David Weiss a lot.  Frankly I had only heard the recording he did of the music of Herbie Hancock and liked that a lot.  As a trumpet player he is excellent.  His post-hard bop style is clearly coming out of the Miles school and I find his ideas inventive and logical.  As Acman3 says, it may be necessary to put on one's thinking cap as this is not music with the usual familiar harmonies and comfortable cadences of most modern bop; but, very interesting.  The band is excellent and besides Weiss , I particularly liked the guitar playing and drumming.  The only thing that leaves me perplexed is the ending of the tune which sounds as if the pause button was hit a couple of seconds too soon.  I found one other clip on line and it ends the same way, so it must be as intended.  Curious, and a little jarring; but, that is what music is intended to be sometimes.  Good stuff.

Thanks for that clip O-10.  I must say that while I may be reading too much into this I find your putting the word "jazz" in quotes to suggest that you may not think that this is jazz.  I would also add that this is clearly current and "latest" jazz, but just one example of many new voices in current jazz.  

When we started using that description of "jazz jazz" to denote the music in a certain time frame, it seemed agreeable to everyone, but in hindsight it was a mistake, because jazz evolves like everything else. Recently I got a new car, and it's "star Trek" compared to the old one; I don't know if I will ever be able to operate all the buttons.

Although this music has evolved, I haven't; guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.


Enjoy the music.

I never did like the term "jazz-jazz" and often thought to write about my objection to it, but didn’t so as not to "stir the pot" of contention. The term suggests that music from said time period is the only true jazz; obviously not so.

**** in hindsight it was a mistake, because jazz evolves like everything else.****

Couldn’t agree more. But give yourself more credit re evolving; with respect, I don’t think you would have made that comment three years ago.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3a3RxVTuNc



That song has so much energy, I feel better every time I hear it; "Trombone Shorty" has identified the best thing on God's green earth for him. I try to imagine what it must be like to be a young man in "Nawlins", with so many young beautiful ladies, including the well known "Creole Lady Marmalade".


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4LWIP7SAjY


It ain't jazz, but I'm looking at life from "Trombone Shorty's" view, and it's not a bad one.


Enjoy the music.

Have always loved Patti LaBelle. Great singer and voice! That song always takes me back to High School and my summer job at a local grocery store and how the woman in the deli section would always sing that song when I was around. I was pretty sure (or hoping) that she was sending a message 😉. I was mortified.

Trombone Shorty is a very talented musician who has carved an interesting niche for himself. As O-10 points out, he has a lot of energy and he combines a New Orleans vibe with a modern R&B sensibility. He sings, plays trombone AND trumpet; and, reportedly drums as well. I particularly like his trombone playing and love what I have heard of him as a guest on records like the Tribute To Fats Domino. But,........a lot of his stuff like "Here Come The Girls" doesn’t do a lot for me. This stuff is certainly fun, but no aspect of it nor the whole package hold up for me compared to other music that I would put in the same general category. Starting with the title of the song (and lyrics) there is a quality that puts it too far over the line into "pop" territory for me and the production and execution of it is good but not great. Btw, Trombone Shorty has done very well commercially and is a multimillionaire. When I want music that pushes similar buttons FOR ME (urban funky horn-laden r&b songs) I would much rather listen to something like this (two of my favorite records):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oAatPPEaZDA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrxRJ9HlfZk

Check out the drummer on this; ALL he plays is the snare, amazing! Trombone Shorty sounds awesome.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5IAhAXRXyas

"Lurking"?

It's amazing how music brings back memories; without a doubt, that girl was sending you an invitation you were afraid to accept.

The "Tower of Power's" music sounds familiar but the name doesn't ring a bell; although I liked it.


Enjoy the music.

I have only been a "lurker" here for a long time now, for various reasons.  I have to say now, though, that Frogman's post at 12:09 on 3/22 is spot on.  Spoken not only as a musician, but as a true lover of music.  

Nice to hear from you, Learsfool; and thanks for the kind words.  Hope all is well with you.

Nice new recording. I need to go back and check this man out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmMT3K5VT4g

Since many of us are in a "trombone" mode, and I'm down loading "Urbie Green" into my PC, I'll share with you "Urbie Green The Fox"


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q30Zq3IHU

8 track times; I remember those days.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kduvcqx-BU



               

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYuwmgD_DLA

EST pianist Esbjorn Svensson died in the mid 2000's, but I saw today there is a new recording of their music. Interesting for some, more than others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8-vvE3oCtM

Hello acman3. I had recently become aware of Esbjorn Svensson because of an album by Magnus Ostrom, "Thread of Life". This is one that might be interesting to you. Ostrom played drums with the E.S. Trio.

At any rate, I’ve spent some time with E.S.T’s "Tuesday Wonderland" and also sampled briefly, "From Gagarin’s Point of View".

I liked the trio’s rendition of "Dodge the Dodo" that you posted. I prefer this to that with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic. Making of EST Symphony will be of interest, of course.

Thanks for posting these links. Hope you will check out Thread of Life and the two other EST recordings (if you aren’t already familiar with them).

By the way, at least based on Dodge the Dodo, I think there’s a little bit of similarity in music by the Noel Cowley Trio (e.g., the LP "Spacebound Apes"). They are more pop/rock influenced, but you might also hear what I do. I don’t like too many promotional videos. Prefer performance clips as you provided. Unfortunately, that’s all I quickly found for NCT this time around (had posted "She Eats Flies" a while back). Do love the chords in this one. Love the chord changes too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh5WYBT0rs0&ab_channel=neilcowleytrio

Thanks again for the E.S.T links.  I find this music interesting and enjoyable.

Words usually have a meaning, but I can find none to "Dodge The Dodo"; OK accept that fact and move on to the music.

The music was "different"; I could listen for a prolonged period of time without changing the channel.

The Dodo didn't want to avoid anything, it was the Dodo that was to be avoided.

Probably the most famous trombone feature ever.  Smooth!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cKQc-cbAvdQ

Amazing!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8nd-Hb63O1U

The more the merrier:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq-OJT9GtO0

My favorite:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RFMfcE5NAL0

Different:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhD30lMieY

Slide  Hampton was the best  by far.

By far? Tough customer! 😉 Hard to compare Dorsey to Hampton or JJ; different eras and totally different styles. Slide was also a great aranger as that arrangement for trombones shows. I don’t think anyone can touch Watrous for sheer vistuosity or JJ for swing feel.  Great to have so many different flavors.