Jazz for aficionados
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what's your take on the link that Ghosthouse provided; do you think things have gotten better for jazz musicians, and if so, how?***** I think the article is accurate, but nothing I didn't already know. Thinking Europe, of all places, was racism free, show a lack of knowledge of history. I also think if shows a weakness of character to crave the approval of white people to this degree. They were not shunned in the American Black community, so why did they run to Paris. Just saying. Ellington and Armstrong were not expats. America is, and always has been the most racist free country on the planet. And this includes the era during slavery. To understand that, you have to be able to think, and be aware of attitudes and conditions around the world. Have things gotten better for Jazz players? Hard to say, since Jazz and Jazz players ain't what they used to be. By the time social attitudes and technology changed to benefit Jazz and all other music, the music went to hell. Cheers |
America is, and always has been the most racist free country on the planet. And this includes the era during slavery. To understand that, you have to be able to think, and be aware of attitudes and conditions around the world. Rok, that must be some good herb you been smoking; pass the pipe. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, it's not about approval of white people, it's about making a living. Let me tell you about the racism that does not exist; it's a long story, so I hope you aren't in a hurry. In 1980, a "white" man without a college education, who worked at one of the car manufacturing plants, or aircraft factory, could expect to be able to purchase a 3 bedroom ranch with 2 baths, an entertainment room, plus 2 car garage. All of this would be in a nice suburb, with green grass, where everybody mowed their lawns, and there were no sirens to keep you woke, or gunfire. (a black man who worked at one of those places could do the same thing, but he wasn't the one who put the wrench in the works) Philadelphia, Mississippi is where James Chaney, a 21-year-old black man from Meridian, Mississippi, Andrew Goodman, a 20-year-old White jewish anthropology student from New York, and Michael Schwerner, a 24-year-old White jewish CORE organizer and former social worker also from New York were murdered. Two White jewish civil rights workers, and one black worker were lynched shortly after midnight on June 21, 1964, when they went to investigate the burning of a church that supported civil rights activity. The autopsy report stated that Chaney had a left arm broken in one place, a right arm broken in two places and groin injuries. All three were shot to death. This is where Ronald Reagan gave his post-convention speech after being officially chosen as the Republican nominee for the President of the United States at the Neshoba county fair. This was just a few miles from where the horribly mutilated bodies of three civil rights workers were discovered. Reagan said, "I believe in States' Rights." And he went on to promise to "restore to states and governments the power that properly belongs to them." The people in the United States of America, who this speech was meant for, recieved the full impact, including the location, which was where the Civil Rights workers were lynched. Since he opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it didn't matter that he opposed unions; as long as he was for "States Rights", which was a euphemism for lynching blacks with impunity. He said President Jefferson Davis was one of his hero's while campaigning in Georgia. (Jefferson Davis was the President of the slave South during the Civil War) Although Reagan opposed any and everything to do with Civil Rights for blacks, he said he was not a Racist. His war on labor was a war on the "Serf Class", (those without college educations) If you are unemployed, or working for minimum wage; you can probably thank Ronald Reagan. However, the most unique aspect of where we are now; is that Union members voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and 1984. This is equivalent to a rabbit voting for year round rabbit hunting. During his two terms in office, millions of Americans were thrown out of work, while the richest had their taxes cut in half. As productivity increased from 1980 to the present, working peoples wages remained essentially frozen. Major corporations laid off tens of thousands of workers while making enormous profits. By Republican standards, Ronald Reagan is considered the best President ever. His success was the destruction of the unions that had fought so long and hard for the high wages and benefits that gave American workers the highest standard of living in the world. The speech he gave in Philadelphia, Mississippi where he symbolically stood on the graves of three lynched civil rights workers and promised to restore states rights; solidified the southern vote for the Republican Party forever. Union members are still voting Republican. When deer put lions and tigers in office, what do they expect. Today 20 July 16, as I am writing this; as the "Good old boy's" say "Hit don't make no difference now" and as a friend of mine used to say, "It's all over but the shoutin", when is the funeral. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I understand, my last post implied there was a difference between the Republican, and Democratic parties; maybe there was once upon a time, but as far as I'm concerned they both are politicians, who are only for politicians. When I was a kid shooting marbles, we had something called "Hobble squabble", and when that was yelled out, everybody pounced on the marbles in the ring to see who could get the most; today, that's the way it is with the Democratic and Republican Parties. Rok, I will retract anything you find that is incorrect; simply point it out to me. Enjoy the music. |
The Constitution believes in States Rights. All powers not given to the Federal Government belong to the several States. The democratic party was destroyed in the South by LBJ's civil rights programs. BTW, passed thru the congress by Republicans. He said it would happen, and he did it anyway. He should be a hero to black America, but he is not. Guess they can't get pass that drawl. Instead they go ga-ga over Kennedy and Clinton who never did anything for civil rights. Union members no longer matter. They just got too greedy. The only union Reagan destroyed, was the air traffic controllers union. I thought it was GREAT!!! ***** Since he opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it didn't matter that he opposed unions; as long as he was for "States Rights", which was a euphemism for lynching blacks with impunity. ***** Does not matter what he opposed in 1964. He was not president or a member of the Federal government. The states right comment is just stupid. You should lay off that democratic, left wing, looney-tune, kool aid. The threat to this country is not coming from the Right. Look at Europe. Btw, years later when the Police Chief in Meridian, Mississippi was a black man, one of the first people he hired as deputy, was one the men that was involved in, and stood trial for the murders in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Of course he was proven guilty beyond a doubt by the FBI evidence, but found not guilty by the good folks of Mississippi. Go figure. Cheers |
Bass Clarinet: The first clip was interesting and informative. The one from Korea was OK also. You know I liked the Mingus the best. A real rhythm section. I still think Dolphy would have been even better on Sax although he played great on the bass clarinet. It still sounds like an interloper in a Jazz group. Cheers |
I rated those three links the same as you; naturally we liked Mingus the best. Although jazz musicians had a tough time (when they were the best) back then, I believe things are better now for a number of reasons: number 1 being they can go to a recording studio and have a CD made, and sell it at their live performances. That would most certainly help the really good musicians who only need exposure. While that was on the plus side, I think the number of places for them to appear is on the minus side; it's got to be hard to make a living as a jazz musician. From what I heard, they still have to go to Europe and Japan; although it's not a race thing, but a cultural thing. Enjoy the music. |
Since jazz movies, or movies about jazz musicians, are the current topic of discussions; I'll begin by asking, has anyone seen "Miles Ahead", "Born To Be Blue", about Chet Baker" or "Nina". Although I haven't seen any of them, I will relay to you what's been said by others. "Nina" it seems isn't Black enough, and that goes for skin color as well as attitude. Zoe Saldana isn't dark enough, and can't sing. (how did she get the part?) Sounds like another flop. "Born To Be Blue" it seems this is the one movie that got a good rating. "Ethan Hawke lights up the screen as jazz legend Chet Baker, whose tumultuous life is thrillingly reimagined with wit, verve, and style to burn. In the 1950s, Baker was one of the most famous trumpeters in the world, renowned as both a pioneer of the West Coast jazz scene and an icon of cool. By the 1960s, he was all but washed up, his career and personal life in shambles due to years of heroin addiction. In his innovative anti-biopic, director Robert Budreau zeroes in on Baker's life at a key moment in the 1960s, just as the musician attempts to stage a hard-fought comeback, spurred in part by a passionate romance with a new flame (Carmen Ejogo). Creatively blending fact with fiction and driven by Hawke's virtuoso performance, "Born to Be Blue" unfolds with all the stylistic brio and improvisatory genius of great jazz". That's a good write up, sounds like a movie worth seeing; Carmen Ejogo certainly makes a pretty picture. There it is folks, now you can add your two or three cents worth. Enjoy the music. |
Ahmad Jamal is the only major jazz artist we have not thoroughly reviewed. He is one of the few artists that Miles admired. That alone indicates this artist must have something worth investigating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyyfM-gI400 I ran across that interesting album on first search. Enjoy the music. |
Today's Listen: Thelonious Monk -- Music from the Motion Picture -- STRAIGHT NO CHASER On the clip is a short statement spoken by Nica. I had never heard her voice before. Also the wiki entry about her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonica_de_Koenigswarter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjLybjtdoKY&list=PLrR6QlNIqj5l01r3ZV_zgrhP5gwZpeyZa&index=12 Cheers |
"Nica" was a most astounding lady; she did more in one life than most people could have done in three lives. When I was young (17), the stories about her and "Bird" were so pervasive, that I believed them, and they made her out to be no more than a "hootchie mama" ( in current slang) That gives you an idea of the power of the press. From what was available, I chose "Pannonica". Enjoy the music. |
I love and appreciate the enthusiasm; but, "thoroughly reviewed"? From my vantage point, there have been but a small handful that have been even close to "thoroughly" reviewed or discussed. What about (to name just a few that have only gotten a couple of mentions)?: Lester Young Coleman Hawkins Sonny Rollins Bill Evans Ornette Coleman Benny Goodman Gil Evans JJ Johnson Artie Shaw Sarah Vaughn Lee Konitz Lenny Tristano Chick Corea .....and many others. |
Although Sax is my favorite instrument, I'm getting tired of it. (bad choice of words, but it's late) Looking at your list, the people I don't listen to on a regular basis are Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Lee Konitz, and Lenny Tristano. I suggest we set up some guidelines so that we'll know how to proceed,and when the review on that particular artist has concluded. When we decide to review an artist, all aficionados should agree to focus exclusively on that particular artist. Getting this thread to go as a unit in one direction is like trying to herd cats. I for one promise to go along with whatever guide lines are set up, and to focus on the artist in the spotlight, but it's quite evident that we need to do this before proceeding. Rok, that means you can keep "today's listen" to yourself, unless you are listening to the artist in the spot light. BTW you did a good job of reviewing and focusing on "Horace Silver". Enjoy the music. |
@Oroheus10, I agree that he needs to get more reviews. I saw Ahmad Jamal performing in Jazz clubs as well as in big crowd venues back in France and NYC. One of my favorite albums is Ahmad Jamal Trio Volume IV, that I listen to this LP at least once a week. For some reasons, He has more live concerts in Europe (especially in France) rather than in US. He is just fantastic and so unique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Sktqhz6GI enjoy the music... |
I have no objection to establishing some guidelines; but I also have no objection to NOT focusing exclusively on an artist and reviewing he/she thoroughly. I guess my concern is simply the notion of thinking that any one artist has been or would be reviewed "thoroughly" when there are still many recordings by that artist that haven't been looked at. I think |
Ahmad Jamal has always been a very advanced artist, that's why Miles liked him so much. "Extensions" is a tune that could have been done yesterday, but he originated it in the 60's, that's just one of the reasons Miles liked him. I saw him in Chicago, and had the opportunity to have a few drinks and conversation with Frank Gant, his drummer, after the set; this was in the 80's, and Frank told me they had tickets to Japan, he said they couldn't make it by only appearing in this country; Japan and Europe were a necessity as opposed to a choice. Complete review of Ahmad Jamal in the works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0G1D0j0zLQ Enjoy the music. |
I'll begin my review by sharing with you what "Wiki" has to say about Mr. Jamal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Jamal A good friend of mine managed to be on the set of "Live At The Pershing" in 58. He was 18 (same age as me), I don't know how he managed it, since we both lived in St. Louis, and too young to be on that set legally; but made he did and you can hear his "donkey laugh" on that LP. Every time I play it and hear his "donkey laugh", I remember Hank. I'm sure everybody has that LP in their collection; after it came out "Poinciana" was so popular that you would have to live on a different planet not to have heard it, but just in case; here it is to refresh your memory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev-3kIXlEGA Get set for a long ride because I'm going to start in the late 50's and come up to the present. That's all for now folks. Enjoy the music. |
Speaking of Jamal, I would say that one should start looking at his work that was made couples years before, than mentioned in previous posts. Here is the mentioned 'Poinciana' but with his 'first' drumless trio, from 1955. https://youtu.be/ZxZQIgp6iKI Again, an album that must not be overlooked. 'Chamber music of new jazz' from 1955. https://youtu.be/E_PbXidJ6WM By the way, if somebody is interested in guitar player, its Ray Crawford, he also played with organist J.Smith, posted befor his only album he made as leader. Hope nobody will mind that I am using this opportunity and doing it again... 'Smooth Groove' from 1961. https://youtu.be/fka0tp0WGPs Such a great line up, but label went broke just before the album was launched.... |
Frogman I've been trying to figure out what you're trying to say in regard to reviewing an artist; are you saying review every record that artist has made? Alex, do you think you have posted the most significant recordings made before 58? Are there any more suggestions before I get too deeply involved in this review? Enjoy the music. |
Michelzay,"The Ahmad Jamal Trio Vol 4" doesn't appear as such on "you tube", but what does come up is "Ahmad's Blues" which has the same tunes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnTbSpyEIf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7RIDZulyHA This tune is like a cool breeze coming off of lake Michigan on a hot summer night. Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus10, You are right about that, This album was originally released as Argo Records "The Ahmad Jamal Trio Vol 4" and later on, it was pressed with different labels. Its CD version is sold as "Ahmad Jamal" on Amazon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Jamal_Trio_Volume_IV Track listing
I used track names to search on Youtube ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnXO1tz4L0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RXgHhio5p0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNsC9_V7qfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcGZIyCz6HM On LP version, double bass is lively present and well articulated which is not the case with CD version of this album. There are other Enjoy it ... |
Orpheus, the first album that I have posted is compilation of his recordings made for Okeh and Epic labels, from 1951, 1952. and 1955. Also, there are songs from 'The piano scenes of A.J' and 'The A.J.Trio'. I would recommend finding all selections in that trio format, but that could prove to be demanding, so that album is quite enough for majority of listeners, along with second posted, 'Chamber music of new jazz'. As early from 1956, he started recording with his 'second' trio, drums included. I like those early recordings more... |
Alex, we'll rely on you for anything significant before 58. He recorded quite a bit in 58, and I don't know how much of it is redundant; meaning some of the tunes were recorded earlier, he might have decided to re-do them. That's the case we have already ran into regarding Michelzay's choice of albums. Next on my list is "Portfolio Of Ahmad Jamal". Enjoy the music. |
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=portfolio+of+Ahmad+Jamal This is "Portfolio Of Ahmad Jamal"; these are the tunes: 1 Ole Devil Moon 4:07 2 Seleritus 3:09 3 It Could Happen To You 4:16 4 Ivy 2:55 5 Tater Pie 3:05 6 This Can't Be Love 4:56 7 Autumn Leaves 7:33 8 Ahmad's Blues 4:16 9 Let's Fall In Love 5:04 10 Aki Ukthay 'Brother And Sister' 3:19 "Autumn Leaves" is my favorite on this album, let us hear which ones you like the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_jftTWQZ3g&index=7&list=PLf54dkJsWJ3MCWrux-KHwBHqh9zbVgwX0 Enjoy the music. |
What's up Rok? When I said "You can keep today's listen to yourself" I was hoping to get you into the artist that's in the spotlight, but evidently Ahmad Jamal is not your cup of tea; in the book of Job, it is said "This to shall pass", meaning it won't last forever, and we will put an artist of your choosing in the spotlight after Ahmad Jamal. In regard to "Today's listen", what I really meant is that I can't comment on it and focus on Ahmad Jamal at the same time, but there is nothing wrong with you posting it. Enjoy the music. |
Finally we're into 1959 (that was a very good year) "The Piano Scene of Ahmad Jamal" is the featured album. BTW here are some comments by other musicians about Ahmad: The Musicians Speak "When people say Jamal influenced me a lot, they're right..." Miles Davis. "Ahmad Jamal is Number One with me!" Shirley Horn "Ahmad approaches each song as a composition in itself. He doesn't allow the groove to become stagnant. He'll go into an interlude that changes the mood and then he'll go out of the interlude into a different groove that's even more swinging than the first was. He always gives the impression of having something in reserve. 'Don't shoot everything in one tune and play 50 choruses or it'll all sound the same,' he told me." Julian "Cannonball" Adderley "The space that Ahmad leaves in his playing creates a tension that captivates his audience...I tried to practice a trill that he makes look so easy, but I gave up!" Harold Mabern "Ahmad is a master at knowing how to draw the ultimate from a musician. He can fit his entire thing--something like Duke--to make you sound a hundred times better. Ahmad is a rhythmic innovator. He never settled for the trend at the time, the straight ahead jazz thing. He always intermixed 'exotic times or feeling' into jazz--rhumbas,tangos--he was able to do all these things and still make it all sound like jazz. I think Ahmad is still developing!" Vernell Fournie These are comments by other musicians about Ahmad's music, that we can listen for. Enjoy the music. |
This is what "The Piano Scene Of Ahmad Jamal" looks like according to "Discogs" Jamal – The Piano Scene Of Ahmad Jamal Label: Epic – LN 3631 Format: Vinyl, LP, Album, Mono Country: US Released: 1959 Genre: Jazz Style: Tracklist A1 Old Devil Moon A2 Ahmad's Blues A3 Poinciana A4 Billy Boy A5 Will You Still Be Mine A6 Pavanne B1 Crazy He Calls Me B2 The Surrey With The Fringe On Top B3 Aki And Ukthay B4 Slaughter On 10th Avenue B5 A Gal In Calico B6 It's Easy To Remember Now it has become apparent to me, why I didn't buy Ahmad's albums every year; by this time, I think I had all those cuts on other LP's; although I might not have "Slaughter on 10 Avenue". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78p4p0GShQ Enjoy the music. |
Since there is so little interest in Ahmad Jamal, I have chosen to let there be a beginning and an end to the Ahmad Jamal story; someone else can fill in the middle, or start on another artist. This ends with one of my favorite artists Mr. Yusef Lateef, and Ahmad Jamal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8DGIqgRF7Q Ahmad and Yusef is a 2 CD set, which means you get your monies worth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ643ujAf5E This concludes the Ahmad Jamal story. Enjoy the music. |
Do not want to jump from one theme to another, so you can think of this as time out... Here’s a historic TV broadcast of the founding fathers of bebop, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, playing together in 1952. It’s one of only two known sound films of Parker playing–and the only one of him playing live, rather than synching to a prerecorded track. http://www.openculture.com/2013/03/charlie_parker_plays_with_dizzy_gillespie.html |
Acman, I'm glad you explained that; some of us are retired and we don't have an excuse, other than who knows for what reason, we just didn't want to respond. As you stated, he has gotten a lot better, but we're talking about music, and maybe not "jazz jazz". I have no intentions of trying to explain what I just said. I know this; I love listening to his music, which has evolved, as opposed to changing, and in order to enjoy it, you must listen with nothing else in mind; the more you listen to his current music, the more you will like it. Any audiophile with a good setup will certainly appreciate his current music more than ever, because he pays close attention to recording quality. If I get feedback to continue, I'll pick up where I left off. Enjoy the music. |
Well aficionados, apparently we have lost two constant members of our esteemed group who were most knowledgeable on the subject of "Jazz", for reasons unknown; but still, move on we must, and move on we will. Miles said Ahmad influenced him more than any other musician, therefore we will listen to how, and why this is so when we hear Ahmads music. Rather than point out specific tunes, I prefer to compare Miles's music, and Ahmad's in general; they both preferred fewer notes, rather than more, they both used space between the notes, and we know this is the way Ahmad played from the beginning. Most of the music we have been listening to has included horns and a lots of notes; frankly, I have gotten tired of "toot, toot, toot". Ahmad is a welcome change for me. I last touched upon a compilation of the trio, and I'm going to go back to that and pick out my favorite cuts on that compilation, and you can post yours. Here is "New Rumba" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykem8mJ5tio Next is "It Ain't Necessarily So" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Dwd2jL-mw Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus - speaking of "lost members", anyone heard from Schumann recently? I realized some weeks ago I'd not seen a post from him in some time. Hope all is well with him. O - your comments about Miles re AJ have roused my curiosity. I know nothing about him...other than have heard the name. More often than not, "less is more" seems better to me too. Have been spending some time with Tony Williams Lifetime - The Collection. Liner notes are interesting. Miles had high praise for TW. The first two albums (Believe It; Million Dollar Legs) by this second iteration of TW Lifetime are covered in "The Collection". This group includes Allan Holdsworth on guitar: Virtuoso without a doubt. Solos made up of incredbly fast, complex runs...but after a while, "YEESH"! I need a break. Alan Pasqua's keyboards provide a nice contrast to all those notes (not that he can't rip it up too). TW and Tony Newton on bass, round out the personnel. |
