Jadis JA30 Mk2, how great???

Once again, some great advice from Charles1dad!
More than likely with the 300B Jadis amp, one is looking for a horn type of speaker. This aspect is another reason why i have never been that enamored of 300B type amps..and not because I don’t think they have the potential to sound good.

Samhvcc,
You express considerable interest in the Jadis SE 300b mono blocks. Although this is a PSET (Parallel single ended triode) topology it is rated at a relatively low 10 watts per channel. Typically a 300b PSET is rated at 16 to 20 watts per channel.

What this suggests to me is Jadis is more interested in achieving the best sound they can rather than extracting more power from the parallel 300b tubes. They chose to run the tubes at lower operating points (OP) to maximize sound quality. Higher OP parameters would easily provide more power.

Given Jadis’ established track record for excellent sound quality this decision is not surprising. To take maximum advantage of this amplifier’s potential I recommend the following.

Most important IMO is finding a speaker that’s easy to drive with low power. You want a relatively flat impedance curve that avoids wide fluctuations. You want a speaker with relatively high nominal impedance, say 6 ohm or higher.

Sensitivity of 94/95 db rated (measured) at 8 ohm impedance and even higher is desirable.
Both of these are important parameters but I believe that the speaker impedance and ease of driving are of higher priority for SET amplifiers.

For the SET amplifier itself output transformer quality and power supply quality are paramount but I feel that Jadis has this covered. Focus on speakers that were designed with the goal/intention of being used with low power amplifiers.

IMO the Jadis SE 300b will genuinely sing if paired with the right speakers. Best of luck to you.
Charles

So if wonder if the SE300B will sound as great if power/speaker sensitivity wasn't be a concern in this regard. Very interest to try the 300B as well for full range high sensitivity speaker. 

The JA30Mk2's with the Franco Serblin Accordo's would probably be a great match up. 
Agree 100% with the post above by charles1dad. 

It makes perfect sense that the Big Esoteric mono blocks would be a very successful pairing driving the Sony SS AR1 speakers. High current capable transistor amplifiers are what the Sonys were meant for. The Grandioso's output power doubles as the load impedance is halved all the down to 2 ohms. The Sony dips to below 3 ohms at certain lower frequencies.

Jadis JA 30 paired with the Sonys will not exploit the potential excellence of either product IMHO. The Jadis can display sonic/musical brilliance with properly chosen speakers.
Charles

As an standard audiophile I owned numerous equipment, Sony & Jadis are just bought recently! My Sony was intended to be driven by my now owned Esoteric Grandioso M1 mono actually. And I paired them with great success! But now I just want to try the JA30, trying how it would go with my Sony.The result, is obviously not a good matching couple, for sure. My newly bought JA30 was supposed to drive a pair of smaller bookshelf, targeting at Franco Serblin Accordo or ATD admonitor premiere, which I am still looking for the right one...

@samhvcc Like Charles1dad just stated, the Sony SS AR1 is not that efficient a speaker, if you are even considering that the JA30Mk2 won’t be enough power for them, then the SE 300B will only lead to one thing...Major disappointment!
Matching the amp to the speaker is a major factor when acquiring both pieces...how many folk have bought a very inefficient speaker ( or one with a horrible impedance drop) and then acquired an amp that cannot drive the load and been disappointed. Conversely, how many folk have bought/owned a low powered amp and then acquired a speaker that cannot be driven by said amp..very easy to do! ( Usually a costly mistake in both instances!).

Hi samhvcc,
As I wrote earlier I’m a hugh fan of SET amplifiers. Matching them with the appropriate speaker is crucial for a successful outcome. Sam I don’t believe that the Sony SS AR1 is designed with the intention to be driven by SET amplifiers.

It a 3 way, 2 crossover (Multi slope per Sony)
4 ohm nominal load (Drops to 2.7 ohm in upper bass and part of the midrange per Stereophile).
88db sensitivity .

Now I’m a proponent of the "Listening is superior to relying on the measurements " philosophy . However specifications/measurements can be used to help develop some initial idea of potential compatibility of matching audio components.

The Sony seems to be a challenging speaker match for most SET/PSET amplifiers. It seems it was built to be driven by higher power/current capable type of amplifiers.
Charles

Thanks all for your comments! I have just found how good the JA30 sounds, so arouse me of much interest to get their 300B amp as well. But honestly it seems can't bring enough power for my Sony AR1 speaker which was also newly bought! Anyway I will run them well for the next couple of months to see how changes they will be! 

Indeed, Jadis does make beautiful sounding and emotionally engaging amplifiers. To that, I think their build quality is basically second to none.
IMO, if one is looking for a tube based amp, then these need to be on anyone's short list.

Jadis is  one of those companies that just consistently has  the knack of  building beautiful sounding emotionally engaging amplifiers that connect the listener to the music. There's obviously something they understand  and are executing  right.  

I'm a 300b SET aficianodo through and through. I haven't the opportunity to hear the Jadis SET offerings but I'm confident that they got it right. I heard a Jadis el34 push pull integrated (Not even one of their higher level models)  and it was very good sounding.  It displayed that special ability to pull you deep into the music..

It they can achieve this level of sound quality with an el34, I can imagine what they're capable of with a 300b in their  upper level range of mono block amplifiers.  As daveyf noted you just need the appropriate speaker matchfor the amplifier. 
Jadis is exceptionally adept at reproducing music beautifully. 
Charles 

Got it. I'm not really a fan of 300B single ended amps. Not because I don't think they sound good, but more because they are so very limiting as to the speakers that you can match them to. Plus, I think in many cases the 300B tube is more susceptible to noise from microphonics. 
In that perspective, I much prefer an 845 ( which Jadis also makes).

The SE300B is a different Jadis amp actually and it looks to be parallel single ended and not pushpull hence the lower wattage.
http://www.jadis-electronics.com/en/se300b-43.php

@samhvcc Congratulations on becoming a new JA30Mk2 owner.
The amps do need a little run in before they can show their full potential, like all new gear. I would also suggest, like the manual states that you don’t listen that carefully until about 1.5 hours of playing time has gone by. The large transformers definitely do need some time to get ’warmed’ up. Nonetheless, the amps sound amazing from turn on...just a little better after the transformers get ’warmed’. Also, after you have lived with your amps for a while, I would highly recommend rolling in some NOS tubes into the 12Ax7 and 12Au7 positions. I just rolled in some NOS Telefunken 12Au7 smooth plates and some NOS Siemens 12AX7’s - this makes for a big upswing in SQ.
As to your question about a 300B amp, I am not understanding your point. The Jadis can deliver up to 45watts/ch...where does 10watt/ch come from?

Moreover how to compare a JA30 with its SE300B? If output driving power wasn't be a concern?! I have much interest to get a pair of it as well？How would you all thoughts about its performance? Though it wasn't a single 300B tube amp, it still caught my attention for a push pull  single ended type of amp which just deliver a 10W only power. It should have plenty of driving power?! Is it? Thanks!
Allan

Hi all, I am the new owner of the Jadis JA30 MKII. May I know about how long it needs to be burnt in to achieve its full potential? Newly fresh out from the box which was already pleased me so much for its precise & detail sound! I do believe it need to undergo a long journey before it becomes stable, isn't it?
Allan

Davey:

What I have noticed as of now with only 20 hours is its drive performance and refinement. Moving the soundstage back about 3 rows the whole room is now just full with massive 3D weight. The CAT Black Path has a lot of caps so many hours to go. Wow!
The 4 ohm tap and 8 ohm tap on the JL5 CAT amp. have two distinct purposes. On the Gamut RS7i speakers on 4 ohm the speaker exhibits more control but is not as extended or open. Now with this preamp. I prefer the 8 ohm tap for its openness. I have learned that even though your speaker might be a 4 ohm speaker (the Gamut is 4 ohm down to 2.6 ohm at 120 hz) it does not mean the CAT amp. cares. Further reading in the manual Ken Stevens reiterates the 8 ohm tap will likely sound better on electrostats.  Now moving to that tap I prefer it also. 
I know initially I had trouble giving up remote volume control but the longer run of interconnect fixed that. Now I am afraid I have created a lazy man situation where I am 18 inches from all settings. The only time needed to ever get up is to change a record and then it is 2 feet away. I can change CD's from my listening position.
Now in retirement this is just pure heaven having this type of sound. 
I have a good 30 days of break-in for the cables and preamp. yet and I am shocked how it good it is already with more to come.
Gwalt

Gary, the CAT preamp is the heart of the system...you can work around it, but it will be the strength of your system with most any ancillary gear....like you said it is the engine. Before, I think you were working with a 4 cylinder motor....now you are working with a 12 cylinder motor.

Davey:
I have 6 hours on it and following break in protocol. Run awhile and then let sit awhile turned off to allow caps to fully charge/discharge etc.
I can take the hint from listening so far that this is a very special piece of gear. 
To say it is refined would be an understatement! Smooth with dynamic holographic imaging and it is not even broke in. Now starting to get that dynamic contrast that this preamp. is noted for. Wow this is so fun to listen to driving the CAT JL5.
As you know it is built like a tank. I found that out when unboxing. 
My goal was to end the equipment journey and this CAT combination should end it for anyone I would guess.  
It has many hours to go to fully develop and it makes you want to listen with the powerful dynamic presentation that is so refined. Makes one realize how important the preamp. is to a stereo as is the engine in a car.
Gwalt

Gwalt, glad to hear that the CAT Black Path preamp finally showed up and now you will be enjoying it in your super system.
To say a BIG smile will appear on your face once it is broken in a little, is an understatement! These preamps rarely show up on the used market...and for VERY good reason. Ken has ’sharpened’ his design over the years, but IME even the older models can still show off almost all of the current competing contenders...and with ease!!! Says a lot about his newer gear.
Remember, consider tube rolling as a way to add some nitro to the engine, but don’t do it until some time has gone by. You will shake your head in amazement once those NOS tubes are rolled in, LOL.

Daveyf:

So happy for you! Isn't music great when it moves to treat your inner spirits.
Music will do more for you than that new California Canabus (marijuana) law that just passed ha. 
Just remember now if you are happy to not change anything. Life will be good with that advice.
Will keep you posted on my final journey. CAT Black Path preamp. shows up today.
My Best,
Gwalt

@daveyf  Awesome that is what this crazy hobby is all about the music! Glad your finding new nuances and subtleties in your recordings it sounds like your in for some very fun listening this weekend! Cheers!

I have now had the amazing Jadis JA30Mk2 in my system for a few months. Last night, after a long listening session, one thing struck me that these amps have more than any other amp I have heard....Resolution. I was playing the MFSL Anadisc Muddy Waters 'Folk Singer' LP. This LP is one of my go to LP's when it comes to Blues and the ability to hear how voice and guitar can sound. In the past, I was always aware of the fact that Buddy Guy was playing on this LP. He always seemed to be a homogenous part of the make up of the sound. Last night,and for the first time, I was made aware of how big a part Buddy actually plays on this LP!! Buddy's guitar was presented not as a homogenous part anymore, but as a very separate entity....and one that was allowing me to hear ( as a guitar player myself) when Buddy made the few mistakes that he did!! I'm fairly certain that most of you who have heard this LP have probably not heard the contribution as microscopically portrayed as the Jadis amps are able to bring to the fore. It was an eye opener to me, I have heard this LP on numerous occasions in the past, and never has Buddy's guitar sounded so very much in the room and as precise as it did last night. The JA 30 MK2's are so much more resolving ( this word is a cliche, but certainly applies in this instance) than any other amp I have heard in my system...so much so that the smallest sound and noise is resolved....almost uncanny!!

Trelja, thank you. I heard that Jadis has a cult following, just as Lamm. Different amps. I always think of a high-end set-up as the one with monoblocks.

trelja, I think the Jadis mono blocks have a little more 'punch' than the integrated models. I would think that any of the mono amps ..with the possible exception of the JA15's, would work well on JM labs speakers. Have you heard any of the new Mk2 models with the KT 150's. I think these are, at least to my ears, superior sounding to the EL34's models that I have heard in the past. Nonetheless, you cannot really go wrong with any of them.

@inna, the best person to offer opinion here would be my very close friend, The Doctor (Mechans), as he’s owned the DA60 and JMlabs loudspeakers at the same time, and brings an incredible wealth of knowledge.

Personally, I feel the larger (4+ output tubes) Jadis amplifiers would represent an ideal match with the JMlabs speakers. Especially, given your insight. My Orchestra Reference offers fixed bias and 2 output tubes per side. As such, lower frequencies are not its strong suit, and that circuit topology presents a more forward presentation, neither of which would complement the Utopias. My DA30, while moving to cathode bias, also doesn’t present the best low frequency performance or control. However, when you move up to the DA60 / DA88S with two more output tubes per side, things really move to the top shelf. You get incredible soulful, rich, full-bodied sound, with the type of lower-end slam and performance that sits as the perfect foundation for the entire musical spectrum.

@daveyf, I’ve been around and own both older and more recent Jadis amplification. My amplifiers illustrate the evolution, though the differences don’t go anywhere as far as some try to tell me. So much of it comes down to output tube selection, as again, my experience has shown tubes more critical to the end result than most other amps I’ve encountered. The company tends to prefer the larger tube types, and have evolved from 6550 to KT90 to KT88 to KT120 to KT150 through the years for reasons related to sonics, reliability / durability, and availability. Personally, I prefer all of them with EL34 output tubes, as I feel the midrange rises to a level that few other products attain. 

Regardless of where you head, I hope you enjoy as long and wonderful relationship with your amplifier as I have, and excited to have you as part of the small group of Jadis owners

Guys, what era of Jadis are we talking about here? IMHO, the current mk 2 versions have a different sound than in the past. The new KT150’s are, again IMHO, a lot more revealing and full range than any of the prior tubes that I have heard.
When I heard Jadis amps in the past, I thought they all had a slightly too warm signature, however, I do feel that the new versions have gone away from that warmth and added a certain increase in neutrality, that I find exceptional. The mids and highs are still great, although I also think they are resolved more than in the past.
Tube rolling is always a good idea, although IME one has to be careful, as you can go backwards just as easily as you can go forwards.
I’m certainly listening to my current tubes for a while to get really used to their sound before I roll in NOS or other tubes.

trelja, I see. How would they sound with Focal Utopia, I wonder ? Both are French, and Utopia are high resolution but somewhat bright speakers.

@daveyf, I ran the Mullard 12AX7 for a while, and felt happy enough. They took my DA60 up a few steps from the original Ei, and offer a warm, rich sound. Hard to believe, but the dirt cheap Shuguang triple mica 12AX7B aka Silver Dragon handily eclipsed them. In fact, our audio then held a 12AX7 tube shootout at my home, and the Shuguangs placed in the top 3, and beat out some longtime highly regarded tubes. The Shuguang offer a more open, transparent, and balanced presentation, without diverging into harshness or anything unpleasant. Unless you really feel devoted to the pipe and slippers sound, you can skip the Mullards for the Shuguangs. You might also consider the Psvane, which descended from it. I did settle on a vintage 5751 variant, and they actually won the competition. But at about 20X the cost, you wonder if it makes sense.

@inna, I’ve used a variety of loudspeakers with my Jadis amplifiers - Coincident Digital Master w/Troubass subwoofers, Consonance M15 horns, Fried A6 & Studio V & Valhalla, Horning Perikles, Merlin TMS & VSM, Quad ESL57, Tidal Piano, and a few others. I still own the Coincident, Fried, and Quad.  That’s more a reflection of hearing that I owned way too many speakers, and not necessarily a reflection of disliking most of the others

trelja, what speakers do you use with Jadis ?

trelja, Thanks for that. Currently I am utilizing a pair of Siemens 12AU 7 and 12 AX7's...not the standard EH tubes that come stock. I may roll in some Telefunkens or some NOS Mullards ( like I have in my preamp).

As an owner of Jadis amplifiers, I also obviously feel they offer beautiful, glorious sound.

In addition to your power cord experience, I've found they show as much sensitivity to tube rolling as any amplifiers I've come across.  It amazes me how far you can push the sound in whatever direction you want to head.  Driver and output tubes more so than the input, and I recommend starting with them, though the input tubes also definitely need attention.  As time passes, you should experiment.  You can REALLY improve things from where the factory starts

Daveyf, 
 I find the bandwagon question to be overwhelmingly based on one's personality makeup. Some people once they've reached a level of deep satisfaction can stop and enjoy the music (This describes me).  Others no matter how well their system sounds just can't resist the urge to change or meddle.  So it all depends on one's psychology it seems. I make a distinction between fine tuning tweaking and constantly changing major system components. Bottom line,  follow your heart 😊.
Charles 

Thanks guys. Last night I had a long listening session..and one that was quite amazing. I managed to add my two REL subs ( after having custom cables built for me by Frank at Signal) and got them dialed in. The result with the new Jadis being powered by the Art Audio cables and the subs now in the room, was a sound that easily surpassed anything that I have managed before. Right now I am pretty happy!
When you get it right, the question becomes is it wise to get off the bandwagon, or continue to tweek....hmmm??

Like you guys correctly point out, synergy is so darned important in this hobby. But wow, once it all locks in...:0)

Davey:
Good for you. Cables are a weird experience and all about system synergy as Charles notes. Power delivery in all parts of the country differs. I assume you have some interference living in CA. ha.
I used JPS Labs Aluminata on them and I still like them on other equipment. To each his own.
Best of Luck.
Gary

Hi Daveyf,
Its a good thing when you achieve that type of synergy.  As you know it can require some patience and trial and error.  It surprises me when some people dismiss the effect of power cables and consider them "snake oil " products.  Just as with you I've heard better quality power cables make a real improvement in the sound.  So as always to each their own. 
Charles 

Well, it turns out that the new Jadis JA30Mk2’s are very sensitive to the power cord that one uses..perhaps like most amps. Anyhow, after trying several candidates from various companies, like Synergistic, Cardas, Black Rhodium, Pangea, a Nordost Heimdahl, the clear winner, and in my opinion miles ahead of the others is: the superb Audio Art SE 1 cable with the excellent Furutech connectors.
I am so impressed with this cable that I think it is probably the absolute best cable for this amp. Truly a match made in heaven. 
Big shout out to Rob Fritz and his over the top performing Art Audio SE 1 power cord. Thank  you, Rob!

Charles,

I think so but allowing it to fully break in. I am also going to try some JJ driver tubes in place of the Electro Harmonix. I am not real fond of bright tubes as the EH tend to be. Nothing exotic about the tubes in the amp..... just tractor like power supplies. It is changing as time goes on.
Sure has a grip on the speakers like nothing I have experienced. Not used to the tight grip and dynamics it has and the extension/openness. It is a stereo amp. with a monster soundstage.....sounding more like monoblocks. Way different than the Jadis emotion.
I had my preamp and cables with me in Denver.....just not perfect with no similar speakers so the auditions become somewhat a best guess.
Fingers crossed but my bank account says it must work as I had to sell the amps. I had planned on long term. Davey benefited from the deal so glad for him.
CAT is an intriguing amplifier for sure. It all becomes individual taste and the movement of the emotiions. We will see but I have some getting used to them to do.


Gwalt

Gwalt,
I get the impression that you may have arrived at your destination with the acquisition of the CAT amplifiers mated to the Gamut speakers 😊.
Charles 

Charlesdad:

I get it. My goal is to get there also. It all started for me when I sold my horns after 13 years. I got sidetracked with an error I made on these new speakers. I believe I now have that corrected. I also know everyone has their own thing so I am happy for you! I just was intrigued by the emotion generation of the Jadis so I mentioned. 

Second issue is auditioning all these products. 

I just got back from Denver to audition some amps. including the one I bought. Not everyone has that ability. I am so fortunate to have Denver within driving distance. 

Best wishes in your musical adventure.

Hi Gwalt, 
Believe me,  I'm very well aware that there are truly excellent amplifiers available besides my current one.  I can easily name half a dozen amplifiers that I believe would thoroughly please me as much as my cherished Frankenstein.  But where does it end?

Replace the Frankenstein with the Jadis JA 30 MK II? What about the Viva 845,  the Shindo or perhaps the Ocellia mono blocks with their top of the line silver wound output transformers? How about the Line Magnetic 805 SET?  This is what I mean superb amplifiers I'm convinced that would grace my system in extraordinary fashion. I could list more wonderful choices. 

I'd be proud to own any of the above named amplifiers but again only need one.  As I type I'm listening to pianist Kenny Barron and vibraphonist Joe Locke "But Beautiful ". Just sounding sublime 😊.  There are simply more fantastic audio components than I could ever hope to own  (I know they're out there). I'm happy where I'm currently at. 
Charles 

Charles, Agree with you 100%. The Jadis do everything you say and more. The Rowland still hits way above its current used price point. In fact, I would be surprised if there were too many current ss amps that are in the $30-50K range that could easily best it. 

Hi daveyf, 
I absolutely agree that choices made regarding audio components is all about one's taste.  I've heard Rowland amplifiers and can confirm they sound very good.  My point was that despite their high level of performance you currently prefer the a Jadis JA 30 MK II. 

My suspicion  is that the Jadis provides a greater sense of liveliness, palpable presence,  the feeling and sound of real musicians (3 dimimenional) before you. At least for me I've found this distinction to "generally"" be to the advantage of good tube components.  Relatively speaking solid state tends to be drier and not as 3 dimensional.  I do recognize that your experience or perspective may differ from mine. 
Charles 

I like the breath of life factor in my music. I hear that in all live events.
Why would I want something different at home? Good analogy Charles.
Just don't become afraid to venture out for discovery if your budget allows. Unfortunately, there is always a "better out there" if the effort is made and you have the desire.
I agree with you Dave on your dealer assessment.
I liked the dealer I purchased the Jadis from but some are more about sales than others. No one is going to tell you that so it becomes something you try to figure out on your own. In my case, the purchase should never have been made. More power is most often way better than not and I thought it would work out but I knew it was borderline with my speakers. In my case I even went out and listened but something failed in my evaluation. I failed to perform the acid test. 
No worries with CAT amps. however and one reason I went that direction. 
This is why audigon has a better future than some of the dealers in many cases. We need both to survive in this hobby and for sure I have just supported both. 

Charles, I still believe the Rowland is one heck of an amp. It certainly has a different “flavor” if you will, to the tube amps that I own. However, it depends on your mood. Right now, and after all these years, I am in the mood for more of the newer tube sound ( particularly since the new tube sound is so much more revealing and neutral)..which I actually feel fits my current tastes and speakers a little better. Some may prefer the Rowland, and I wouldn’t argue with them...it’s that good.
I am sorely tempted to keep it and move my ARC D 70mk 2 on...

Jadis JA 30MK II preferable over the Jeff Rowland.
CAT preferable over the Gamut. 

Two high esteem solid state amplifiers,  but there's just something about tubes when done right. I refer to it as the "breath of life " factor. You just know it when you hear it.  I believe that both of you know what I mean. 
Charles 

Gwalt, one of the things that I think we would both agree upon, is that the sort of sidetrack that you made, probably should not have happened.
IMO, a dealer whom we rely upon to confirm product synergy should supply with you exactly that. If they fail to do so, inadvertently or otherwise, it would generally lead one to concern. I know in this hobby that there are endless possibilities, like you said, but I am always concerned about people in the industry who profess knowledge, and either have it and lead you wrong ( for their own agendas), or simply lack the experience that they posses to have. I rarely talk to any dealer these days who will contemplate that there may be consumers out there who actually know as much or more than they do! A pity.

Agree with you Charles. Here's the thing of it, until recently, I was pretty happy with my power amp. I had an inkling that the new Jadis JA30 Mk2 was going to be really special...which is why I started this thread. 
I just did not realize how much better this amp was until I heard for myself in my system. If you do get a chance to listen to one of these, or the CAT amps for that matter, I would recommend that you give it a go. 
Sometimes, our suspicions prove to be correct. Nonetheless, if you are currently happy with your gear, that is always a great place to be. 
For some reason, I tend to get an itch every few years....

Fair enough and I agree with your assessment which is where I am heading.......a final destination. I thought I was there until I picked to little power. That's what makes this hobby so difficult and or fascinating at the same time as there are endless possibilities to reach personal satisfaction.