I am unwilling to issue an opinion until we all agree that snake oil is two words.
Isolation stands: snakeoil?
I understand that turntables are uniquely effected by vibrations due thier sensitivity to that kind of energy. But here’s the thing: most turntables, especially decent ones, have vibration control measures built into them via footers and various construction techniques. So, the question is: are turntable stands / shelves with isolation features actually beneficial or are they just horrendously overpriced accessories for audiophiles?
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Some isolation products and turntable footers, primarily those using soft materials, can be very effective at eliminating vibrations entering the component from the rack/stand, but they also trap the vibrations generated inside the component with no path for dissipation. That is where Symposium’s approach is different. Using a firm layer of absorption material constrained on each side by a SS layer, they address the external vibrations while also dissipating internal vibrations away from the component when coupled to their platform using their aluminum footers or roller blocks. This can be very meaningful sonically, especially with transports and turntables. Dave |
My SOTA Cosmos table has a pretty good suspended set up for isolating it from the stand/environment. But when I was able to buy an active vibration canceling table (a Herzan, pinched off of Ebay for peanuts), I was rather astonished at the improvement in sound quality once placed upon that table. Every aspect of the music got cleaner, sharper, and less colored - - it just sounded much truer to live music with that one change. I'm guessing that SOTA's are less prone to issues than most tables, so I'm also guessing that the platform supporting just about any table is going to matter, maybe even a lot. |
Agree with mapman. Some turntables (my basis Ovation. for example) have a suspension system capable of essentially eliminating the need for a complex isolation stand, but some (my old original Well Tempered TT, to a lesser extent, but many inexpensive TTs) could be susceptible to outside vibrations and benefit from a dedicated stand. I had an old table that would transmit footsteps when I walked across the floor until I put it on a wall-mounted stand, which solved the problem. There are, of course, other ways to deal with the problem, some more effective than others. lalitk: I think that the OP probably has a job writing for the National Enquirer, hence his choice of sensationalist titles for his threads. |
Vibration damping or isolation products make a very significant difference in the sound. The thing is, so many believe "more" is necessarily better; I have not found that to be the case. There can be too much, which results in a dry, lifeless and analytically clean and non-musical sound. So, it is like so much else in audio, a matter of taste and tuning and experimentation. I don't know of any magic formula. |
My main reply to your question is: I don’t know. Though since high end audio is rife with snake oil I have little doubt this applies to some (or many) isolation products. Bit having recently bought a new high end turntable, it did make at least theoretical sense to ensure it sat on a surface that minimized the transfer of vibration to the turntable (and hence to the stylus - I don’t buy in to the necessity of vibration control for other components, e.g. CD players, amps etc that work on different principles than turntables). So I tried all sorts of vibration minimization strategies, products and materials, measuring their effects via a seismometer app on my iPad (all I had, but I at least wanted to see some objective verification). In the end I used some springs and constrained layer-type material combinations to create a platform for the turntable. In terms of what is measurable via the seismometer, not to mention what I can feel by hand, the reduction of vibration getting to the turntable are easily seen. For instance, without the platform stomping on the ground by the equipment rack produces huge ringing spikes of vibration. With the platform, when stomping the they are almost gone. I got similar results for reducing other types of vibration (eg rapid higher level buzzing vibration from an electric toothbrush). Therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if an isolation product using similar principles actually did increase isolation from vibration. The big question is of course: are the effects audible? In my case I have no idea if my new turntable would sound different with or without the isolation base I built. I’d need to blind test it with/without the base to feel comfortable making such a claim. But that would be an impossible test given the ergonomics and other issues involved. So I just use my experience as a “peace of mind” factor that I did my best to reduce the influence of gross level vibrations. I can say the sound of records on the turntable has been astonishly low in noise! I can’t believe how “black” the background is on records of all types vs my previous turntable set up, and that includes even older worn records. Again, without being able to test in a way that reduces the variables I can’t pinpoint what to attribute to these changes. |
Why do you have a such a glim view or you just enjoy stirring the pot? Your previous posters.... Integrateds: Why do they all SUCK? Mapleshade Isolation: Does Nothing? Cartridges: Complete Scam? Soundstage and explosive dynamics? Basis Turntables: Worth it or Ripoff? Synergestic Research: SCAM Class D = Trash? Rega and ProAc: Bad? Anticables: Scam? And yes, isolation accessories and well designed stands do make a difference to all those components that are prone to chassis born and external vibrations. +1, Core Audio Designs PlyKraft component and isolation stands. |
My answer to your question is going to be a bit obtuse. I just got back into TT after a 33 year absence, see my post on this subject (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/second-system-that-sounds-and-looks-spectacular-i-am-there) . The TT I have now, Michell Engineering GyroDec, is in some ways similar to the one I sold 33 years ago (Michell Engineering Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference). Both TT were fitted with SME arms (SME IV now, SME 3009 S2 33 year ago). The big difference in the setup now is, I use a TT isolation stand, Core Audio plyKraft 3L. With the previous TT setup I could clearly hear feedback at high playback levels with a muddling of the sound. Not now. The sound of my new TT setup is like night and day; I simply can’t believe LP playback can sound this good. Part of the improvement is due to the TT/Arm/Cartridge improvements coupled with improvements in vinyl pressing. I am also firmly convinced the isolation stand has made a significant improvement to the sound quality. I can now play vinyl at ridiculous sound levels and the sound quality stays crystal clear. In fact, and don’t try this at home, if I kick the TT stand, nothing happens, the LP continues to play perfectly. So in answer to your question, TT isolation stands make a considerable improvement to TT performance. I am 100% convinced and love the sound and look of my Core Audio isolation stand. |