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Is the appeal to euphonic distortion learned?
Hi everyone,
I have been thinking a little bit about the idea of euphonic distortion. The idea that we can make an amplifier or preamplifier sound better by not being so absolutely true to the input. The common story is that by adding 2nd order harmonics the music sounds more pleasant to more people. Certainly Pass has written a great deal, and with more nuance and detail about this and makes no bones about his desire to make a good sounding, rather than well measuring product.
Lets keep this simple description of euphonic distortion for the sake of argument, or we’ll devolve into a definition game.
I’m wondering whether it is possible that this is in large part learned? For instance, if I grew up with non-euphonic amps and then was exposed to an amp with high amounts of 2nd order distortion would I like it? Is the appeal here one which you have to have learned to like? Like black coffee through a French press?
And this discussion is of course in line with my thoughts about the ear/brain learning process. That there are no absolute’s in music reproduction because we keep re-training our ears. We keep adjusting what we listen to and ultimately at some point have to decide whether the discrimination between gear makes us happier or not. (Go ahead writers, steal this topic and don't mention me again, I know who you are).
I have been thinking a little bit about the idea of euphonic distortion. The idea that we can make an amplifier or preamplifier sound better by not being so absolutely true to the input. The common story is that by adding 2nd order harmonics the music sounds more pleasant to more people. Certainly Pass has written a great deal, and with more nuance and detail about this and makes no bones about his desire to make a good sounding, rather than well measuring product.
Lets keep this simple description of euphonic distortion for the sake of argument, or we’ll devolve into a definition game.
I’m wondering whether it is possible that this is in large part learned? For instance, if I grew up with non-euphonic amps and then was exposed to an amp with high amounts of 2nd order distortion would I like it? Is the appeal here one which you have to have learned to like? Like black coffee through a French press?
And this discussion is of course in line with my thoughts about the ear/brain learning process. That there are no absolute’s in music reproduction because we keep re-training our ears. We keep adjusting what we listen to and ultimately at some point have to decide whether the discrimination between gear makes us happier or not. (Go ahead writers, steal this topic and don't mention me again, I know who you are).
63 responses Add your response
I crave detail. If it’s all euphoric and warmUltimately it is not the gear that will give that, even well chosen, but acoustical embeddings controls .... Why? Because detailed and euphonic are a gross and not so subtle way to speak about acoustical qualities that are dependant for their manifestation way more from the embeddings controls than from the gear itself even the speakers for most of us with speakers under 5,000 dollars... Myself i want way more than details and euphony, i want pin point imaging, natural tonal timbre, over the speakers soundstage, listener envelopment experience, and good source acoustical width experience... If i had that i will have details and euphony but because of the rightfully controlled acoustical, electrical and mechanical embeddings, not by the magical virtue of a brand name manufactured product, so well designed it is.... It is easy to buy something good nowadays, much more difficult to place the gear in an optimally set controlled environment.... |
I don’t think its learned.Very good posts right on the spot for me thanks... I will only add that all discussion in audio about S.S and tubes are secondary to the main point : how to reach the highest S.Q. possible... Why? Because that means nothing at all comparing tubes/versus S.S. in general... There is too much difference in the different embeddings conditions where these comparisons took place sometimes and too much difference between bad and good S.S. and bad and good tubes and all levels between bad and good.... Then chosing one abslutely over the other possiblity make no sense....Anyway electronic design can create these 2, tubes and S.S., on par with each other... Sansui made it 45 years ago.... Acoustic control is one of the 3 keys to S.Q. and the main one key, choice of gear are only fouth,five,and six’th keys..... Second key is electrical noise floor control and third key mechanical vibrations and resonance control... Why? Because it is way more easy to buy a decent very good piece of gear than implementing the processus of controlling all the different parameters embeddings ,especially the acoustical one... How do you think a tube amplifier or a S.S. amplifier sound in a bad room? How much value can we give to a review in an bad or not optimally controlled room when the reviewers speak about "nuances" and subtle acoustic cues ? Creating this thread is fun anyway and we must learn something with post like the one i just used ..... Thanks to the poster....Thanks to the OP. |
I'm not saying that his stuff makes more distortion. This is something easily seen in the Stereophile measurements, but judging Pass gear is not the point I'm trying to make here. In large part I wonder if my like or dislike for certain gear has to do with how I grew up, in terms of gear. Nature vs. nurture. |
I don't think its learned. The presence of enough 2nd or 3rd (both are treated by the ear the same way) masks the presence of the higher ordered harmonics. This is common in tube equipment but not so much in solid state equipment, although Nelson Pass (as an example) is careful to see to it that his stuff expresses a bit more of the lower orders than many solid state products to create this masking. I'm not saying that his stuff makes more distortion. I am saying that the **ratio** of lower orders to higher orders is enough that the lower orders are able to mask the higher orders to a certain extent. So you can still have lower distortion, say 0.05%THD and still get this masking to work. Traditional solid state has typically been lower distortion but since the higher ordered harmonics aren't masked solid state has gotten a reputation for being bright and harsh, since the ear is keenly sensitive to these harmonics and assigns a tonality to all forms of distortion. This is why tubes are still around. Its arguable that the orders of the harmonics should have a weighting system applied, since the ear is insensitive to the lower orders and very sensitive to the higher orders. When the music is correctly reproduced, the higher ordered harmonics won't be audible. But when the 2nd in particular is too profound, the electronics are said to be 'euphonic', which is to say that they are musical, just perhaps not all that neutral. But this is certainly not learned! All humans respond to these harmonics in the same way; the higher orders are used by the ear to sense sound pressure. That is why the ear is so sensitive to them. |
It was lived & learned I think?..... I remember listening to records on tube amps long time ago, then in the solid state sound, it went away, the sound seemed not as relaxing, and it was harder to get that relaxed fall asleep feeling. I use the tube (1 ohm resistor) tap on my Sunfire a lot, to get that tone, it’s close, but not the same as a nice tube amp/preamp, LP playing. I do miss that tone, the Sunfire tap brings me close, but it’s not the same. I do miss it. |
I don't have an answer, but found a pertinent discussion, here: https://www.stereophile.com/reference/406howard/index.html |