Lewm,
Good point generally speaking, but there shouldn't be an impedance matching problem with the Coincident Dragon MK II amplifier. This sibling combo is likely an exceptional sound.
Charles, |
Sorry for being pedantic, but "passive" and "no gain" can mean two different things. But it's probably truly passive, just a volume control, which means one must take care about matching impedances. |
Thank you for clarifying. It further justifies that there is no need for me connect a digital source to the Statement Phono in my setup. If you are still considering this, most CD players without volume control have enough gain to start with, but it will be better to check that also :) |
I talked to Israel, he says that the "line-stage" in the phono is passive (no gain), so its not a "true" linestage. |
I would ask Israel Blume, does his phono stage have a true "linestage" built in, or do the aux inputs simply interpose the volume control between the CDP or other high level source and the amplifier. There is an important difference, if the linestage function is crucial to you. |
Essrand go for it - one component at a time. My philosophy is buy the piece you really want and upgrade when you can or you might even find you don't need to upgrade. A statement piece in your system might make upgrading other components unnecessary because you might be completely satisfied with your sound.
OTOH compromise and you may be on the upgrade train forever...a well worn path of disappointment for many. |
The Statement Phono adds an analog flavor to my digital source. It sounds very good. However, my Wadia 781i has its own volume control, and I prefer digital music to sound digital as-is. If you plan on hooking up a CD player, it will do the job as a line stage very well, and you can roll tubes to suit your tastes.
The Statement Phono is very quiet, its almost unbelievable you are listening to records. It is very true to the sound your turntable makes. |
I'd say that it's obvious you'll want a good quality TT, tonearm and
cartridge, all are important. You have to start somewhere and beginning
with a recognized and praised phono stage that's available for a discounted
price is a fine opportunity(and has an excellent line section built in).
Starting with a lesser quality phono only to upgrade later usually costs
more in the long run. All components have a learning curve, this isn't
unique to analog. You have an excellentCoincident Dragon amp and thus a
very solid foundation. No need to make things more complicated than need
be.
Listen to live music (particularly acoustic instruments) and you'll develop
an ear for natural sound. You'll discover (or may already have) that some
types of components are more realistic and natural than others. Trust your
hearing and your spontaneous and emotional response.
Charles, |
Jcharvet, do you use the Coincident Phono like a line-stage for your digital source also ?
Seems it has input for CD player too, so can bypass having a line stage completely.
If you do, can you please tell how good it is with acting as a Line stage for a digital source. |
Dear Essrand: It's clear that for any one of us is easy and in some ways a " fun " to " play " with other person money.
++++ " I might wait and gain some more experience with Vinyl before getting the Coincident. " ++++
this makes a lot of sense to me.
Analog is far away to be a plug&play hobby. If there is one audio suibject where we need adeep knowledge level and skills to achieve a quality performance level that can satisfy us is ANALOG.
The analog proccess is a everyday learning proccess. You are " new " to that learning proccess and you can't run before you learn to walk. We have to invest time and money on that learning proccess. I think you can't justify a high investment on the starting learning proccess step, you have to understand what really is happening " down there " ( quality performance level during playbak. ), why sounds that way or that other way, why I can't get " nirvana ? and several other questions that only you can resolve through that knowledge level and obviously trough your audio system.
First step in that learning proccess could be to have a reference a standard to compare. Normally the " best " reference is live music and here too you have to understand what you are listening.
Yes, the phonolinepreamp is a critical analog item but the cartridge and tonearm too and you have to learn by your self about if you really cares about MUSIC and MUSIC home reproduction.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Esstrand,
The case for obtaining a top tier phono stage continues to grow. |
A Phono Stage is the most critical unit in the whole chain. With no other unit you can win or loose so much. When it is done right, it is not a question of overkill (Science is knowledge ---> RIAA, precision, temperature, parts... ).
We have now a lot more units available, but only very, very few are outstanding. Like a famous European Designer (Mies van der Rohe) once said: "God is in the Detail" |
"There's no need to hurry it's not a race" so true Onhwy61.
The premium phono stage can be thought of as a strong building block.
There's no rule that says that every additional component has to be
necessarily expensive to make good music. I don't believe you have to
spend 5k in order to get a wonderful sounding cartridge. Take your time
and get comfortable with what's available in a price range you're at ease
with. Remember that the Coincident will extract all that it can from your
analog front end. You really have to define what your musical/sonic
objectives are then fulfill them in a systematic fashion.
Some people have very expensive systems and yet aren't happy with their
sound. Take time and assemble a system rather than a collection of
numerous expensive components. You're sure off to a good start.
Charles, |
Essrand, you have a number of very experienced and knowledgeable people advising you to purchase the Coincident phono preamp and I think it's good advice, however, it might not be the best advice. Let's say you buy the phono preamp, next thing you know you go and get a $5k cartridge which leads to a better tonearm/turntable which leads to a better line stage, but now your speakers are holding back the system... What started out as $20k system has suddenly ballooned to $60k+. Each "upgrade" was logical and resulted in a worthwhile improvement in sound quality, but the real question is whether the tricked out system will really make you happier? There's always going to be some level of performance that's better than what you have. There's always going to be some great deal on some component that will help you get to that next level. There's no need to hurry, it's not a race. |
onhwy61, Thanks for your pragmatic advice.
My components are definitely of not the same quality. Am sure my cartridge is not, which I knew from the start and do not mind upgrading.
I did expect to keep the TT (Clearaudio Concept) for a few years.
I hope getting the Coincident will not make do that upgrade too. If so, I might wait and gain some more experience with Vinyl before getting the Coincident.
Money is limited, as it always is, otherwise I would have bought the Coincident and asked questions later.
Iso, I agree with what you are saying. That it will be good match. But I wonder if getting the Coincident pre-amp will force me to make upgrades I am not ready yet. |
Always shoot high....lowering your sights will always be wasteful |
Essrand, Now that you mentioned that you have a Coincident Amp, the Coincident Statement would be the obvious choice. As Charles points out "you're set and done". Good luck! (I'm keeping my Alaap, tho:) |
Are your other components of similar quality? If the answer is yes and money truly isn't an issue, then go for it. But if your other components are not quite in the same class as the Coincident, for instance more like your turntable and cartridge, then your money is better spent (or not spent) somewhere else. I note that you state you're a beginner. I would caution you that components like the Coincident and particularly suitable cartridges for the Coincident are aimed at experienced audiophiles who understand their demands. |
If you think you love vinyl and are not afraid of spending the money, go for what you want. (I have no opinion on the Coincident phono stage except to relate that a buddy of mine sold his Dolshi Alaap in favor of the Coincident, for whatever that's worth.) If you knowingly compromise on the phono stage, you are only setting yourself up for losing money when eventually you do sell the EAR 834P (or whatever else you might buy as a compromise choice) in order to finally get what you really seem to want. Life is short.
As Banquo implied, do be prepared to upgrade everything else, so as to get the most out of the Coincident, as time goes by |
Hi Essrand,
There's a new review of this phono stage in Tone Magazine that echoes the raves of other reviews and owners (go to the Coincident web page and find reviews).
Jwm offered very good advice, start with very high quality components with your source. This prevents the constant upgrading and swapping that will cost much more money in the long run. With this phono stage you're set and done.
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Essrand, You can also read Arthur Salvatore's review of the Coincident. He goes into depth about the characteristics and benefits of the phono. |
I would recommend the Benz cartridge above the glider or ZYX. Always go with the best source first which is the table, cartridge, Phono stage. If you a get a cheap phono stage at first you will want a better one in no time. Upgrading causes you to lose money in the end. |
Thanks for your advice Charles1dad.
Thanks Banquo363 for your answer.
Whats the budget for a cart that might match this amp ?
I know the world of cart is a big one, and hard to answer without experience, but as a beginner whats a first stab at a cart that would start to do justice to this pre-amp. I need to figure that out, so that I can plan my budget.
even 4.5K for this amp, might be a stretch for me, but might be worth it, given the step-up I experienced after getting a Coincident amp. |
Worth every penny, especially when hooked up directly to the amp, which is how I have it. |
If indeed the stage is that rare to get on sale, then why not try it out--resale should be a breeze? Note that it won't work with your present cart, since the gain is too high. But if you want to play at this level, you'll want to get a better cart anyways, so put that in the budget.
So, to answer your first question: yes, it would be overkill. |
I agree with Isochronism, owner enthusiasm is very high for this product.
It you can get this for 25 % off that's very unusual. It's considered to be world class level, I'd go for this rare opportunity. |
I would assume the Coincident Statement Preamp does not become available on the used market as it's owners are very happy. Every member here, who uses one, gives very glowing testimonials! Put the horse (pre) before the cart. Get the best Preamp and then match accordingly. |
