Integrated Amp upgrade path

@arafiq No I have not tried the Mind2 as a streamer into the Mac DAC.  The MiND2 is integrated into the the Moon 280D and its output is analog only (balanced or RCA) 

On the streamer front, I’ve been through a bunch, most of which are mentioned above and all have some very good sound and convenience pluses and I’m not about to bash any of them.
I have finally settled on the Linn Akurate DSM with Roon and have been totally happy with both sound, convenience and interface. It’s totally upgradable as well.
As others have mentioned Boulder and McIntosh will have different house sounds. Just find your cup of tea. I have a McIntosh C2300 pre before they started incorporating Dac’s in their pre amps as I wanted it separate.
Good luck in your quest.

I own Treo CTs and matched them with an Aesthetix Mimas integrated on the suggestion of John Rutan of Audio Connections. The Aesthetix is a zero-feedback design as are Ayre products and both are acknowledged as good matches for the Vandersteens. I like streaming as well and use an Innuos Zenith and Phoenix to stream to the DAC module in the Mimas. I use WyWires Platinum USB cables. The Innuos is my Roon Core and I stream with Qobuz. My points are to talk to Johnny and get his advice on amp matching. And the other point is that a a high-quality stream is readily discernible as superior. 

@mrklas -- thank you for the details. Given the rate of change in the digital audio industry, especially when it comes to streamers and DAC, I've so far been of the opinion that we should keep them separate for ultimate flexibility. Did you try to use the MIND2 purely as a streamer feeding to your Mac DAC? 

@arafiq my experience with the Node 2i was positive.  It's $600 with great features.  It was my dipping of the toe in digital.

When I upgraded my preamp - McIntosh C2600 - part of my reasoning is the internal DAC and phono stage (MC and MM).

I set up the Node to provide go through the DAC as well as provide an analog signal.  I would switch and do an A and B comparison and at times there was a difference.  Enough to make me wonder if there was value in upgrading my source given I upgraded the preamp/amp and speakers.   

So I decided to evaluate the impact of upgrading the DAC and compared the Moon 280D to the McIntosh internal DAC (version 1 non-modular) and the Node 2i

I was surprised by the improved details with very dense music such as Black Sabbath War Pigs and on songs with delicacy like Steely Dan's Hey Ninenteen or Chuck Mangione's Feels So Good on the Moon 280D.  It was significant over both the McIntosh DAC and the Node 2i DAC - so I decided to go for it.

I found the MiND2 easier to set up than the Node 2i (specifically with my NAS).  I've been impressed with Moon customer services support - they respond to questions quickly. 

Based on my experience, Moon is an excellent value for the money.  If I ever update my DAC/preamp/amp...Moon separates or integrated will be on my auditioning list. (in addition to Audio Research and McIntosh)

I like my McIntosh and I was able to buy it at a discount because they were demo models - I've heard Moon products with Davore Super Nines and Wilson Sabrina X speakers and I have been impressed.  

They will sound completely different so different that you will like one and not the other different so make sure where you buy the boulder has a good return policy if you do not like it because it is an expensive proposition to gamble on.

Thanks for the feedback!

It look me about a month to tweak my RELs. Mostly because I first went down the path of lower crossover and higher volume. The sound in my system was very clean, similar in voicing to the Revel Salon/Studio series, but that was not the aesthetic I was going for. I doubled back to try higher crossover and lower volume and I preferred the richness the higher crossover afforded. 

@hsw—Not hard at all.  I set levels and crossovers in pairs, from the bottom row up.  Crossover level is lowest for the bottom pair, second row a bit higher and third row is higher again.  Levels follow the same pattern from low to high, but are closer together.  Then after those were done, small tweaks to each row as needed.  I found the level control to be the most sensitive and it had the biggest impact, but it was not hard to match with the volume of the main speakers.  I have a small room (10 x 14), so YMMV.  Maybe an hour’s time, max. 
The line array concept was a big plunge for me, but the results are spectacular:  wider soundstage, bigger image, better clarity, and most significant to me, more heft/substance/weight (without any hint of softness) to the rendering of each note, tone, vocal, or percussion—across the whole music spectrum really, which to my ears has always been one of the hallmarks of live music.  Not a cheap upgrade by any means, but  the ROI is stunningly good. 

OP, I notice you have a REL 6 pack. Currently I have 2 REL S/812s and am thinking of building up a six pack. How challenging was it to dial in the six pack?

Thanks

@deadhead1000: What did you upgrade to?...just curious.


I am a MA8900 owner. I am going to try a Lumin T2 with my amp. I currently have a ~$1500 Teac NT505 which sounds much better than the MA8900’s DAC, so as to streaming I would call out the installed DAC as being inferior. That being said, you can upgrade your MA8900 with the DA2 module which gives it a much more current DAC and more capabilities.

I agree with several other folks who say your sound will be very different switching out from the McIntosh. You need to hear the Bolder or other recommendations before making a switch that big. I am a former Mcintosh owner and in my case moving to another brand gave me a big improvement over the sound of the Mc. But to be clear, nothing wrong with McIntosh, it just has it's own voice. And I realized I liked other amp's sound better. You may not find that to be true.

guy-incognito +1 to adding an external DAC; big improvement - not even using a really high-end DAC.

Coda is one excellent company where you get more sound quality and build vs the competition  per $$ dollar spent and I have heard several over $10k 
not as good and 3 wpc choices ,% into pure class A .I choose the V1 option 150,300,600 wpc ,18- 1st watts in pure class A . The excellent separate preamp section is also in pure class A.
and many class leading  parts in this the design .the build quality is exceptional . I ordered mine with the 1.0 uf  VH audio Odam  ,capacitors which I feel are betterThen the very good stock 
Multi caps and Huge class leading 3k va potted transformer which  produces  over 120 amps on tap with exceptional control and dynamics. It is a steal for $6500 ,the price will be going  up to $7 k soon I suspect.one more things 10 year warranty,5 year transferrable.   http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/coda-csib-integrated-by-richard-willie/

From someone who started with a bluesound node 2i and then added an external DAC and then moved on to an Aurender streamer I can say without hesitation... it all matters.  The streaming source matters and the DAC matters. Cheap streamers with lackluster interface apps are just that. If they fill your needs and satisfy your use case then knock yourself out. Why would you spend more? That said, I have yet to meet someone who made the jump that regretted doing so. 

@mrklas - I’ve heard nothing but praise for the Mind2. Can you elaborate in what way it is better than the Node? I would love to audition this component sometime in the next few weeks. 

pedroeb

Not trying to be rude, but are you serious?

I have a Moon by Simaudio 280D with MiND2 a significant upgrade from my Node 2i and the DAC in my C2600 preamp. 
Lots of options of course depending on your budget. And the Boulder DAC/preamp could be an option too. 

Yamaha’s “not good” for his system?  Care to qualify that statement?  
It’s a digital source, format and features matter more then price.  But go ahead and waste your money, op mentioned that “data is data” so I’m assuming they aren’t a sucker.

Why are some components not considered a good match, provided the input requirements are met?

Perkadin data is hardly data there canthus be very large differences in what you can get from a dac depending on digital source

As per the op the boulder will bring out the highs and sound way more transparent Vanden are polite on the rop end and mac gear is not very transparent so the boulder should make the vandys more exciting

Yamaha’s “not good” for his system?  Care to qualify that statement?  
It’s a digital source, format and features matter more then price.  But go ahead and waste your money, op mentioned that “data is data” so I’m assuming they aren’t a sucker. 

Also Simaudio Mind Network Player is very good. 

Yamaha is not really a good match for the OP’s excellent system. Consider streamers from Lumin, Innuos, Aurender, Sonore, Sotm, etc. 

Can’t comment on Mac vs Boulder, that will likely come down to personal taste, but as for a streamer I recommend the WXC-50 from Yamaha, especially if you listen to a lot of live music which may not be available in hi res formats.  I use Spotify Premium mostly because they only have a handful of live GD Master Tracks on Tidal. Yamaha has a very good “sound enhancer” mode which adds back a little of that air/sparkle compression algo’s lose, and is perfect for Spotify users.  Just make sure you use it in “player” mode and bypass the very mediocre preamp section. 
I’ve also used the Soundnode 2i but slightly preferred the Yamaha and its sound enhancer as a streamer. The Soundnode looks much better and I also liked its app better. It may also be better for android users since it has AptXHD in the event you can’t stream over WiFi or Ethernet. 

Yes, MC was a typo.  Really nothing about the Mac I don’t like—just have been very interested in Boulder.

Had not given much thought to upgrading the front end—-kind of in the data is data camp, but admittedly without much knowledge.  Will give that approach a good look.  Any streaming DAC recommendations?

Thanks to both responders!

I have heard several McIntosh Integrated amps and personally have Mc preamp/amp set up.

I would focus your upgrade path on the source.  I'd evaluate purchasing an external streaming DAC.  My logic is based on cost and optionality.

Upgrading the the Boulder is a significant cost.  You will hear a difference in sound because it will be a completely different source to amplifier to speaker path.  

The DAC on your MA 8900 is good - not great.  In my opinion you can get a significant upgrade for a fraction of the cost of the 866.  Heck the 816 is an option too!

Good luck and enjoy the process.  

Do you mean a MA8900?  I never heard of a MC8900.  I would expect the Boulder to have a much different musical representation. What is it you don’t like about the McIntosh?