Is it drowning? : )
What would you like addressed?
What would you like addressed?
Integrated Amp to match with Magico A3
Have just ordered a pair of Magico A3, and looking for integrated amplifier to pair with it. As I heard once which had a very disappointing result to pair with Gryphon 300 in a local Hifi show in Hong Kong. Reallly looking for recommendations on matching amplifier. Planned to get a Marantz PM-10, but worried that the single box may not be powerful enough to push the A3. On the other side, some said Hegel H360 with 4000+ damping factor may suit even better.
thank you in advance
thank you in advance
100 responses Add your response
@eldonfung Well, still staying at the crossroad between H360 and PM10...... After looking at the specs and reviews of the new PM10, I can see why it would be a real contender in your choice of amps. Judging from other reviews and recommendations of the H360, as well as Jake’s complete satisfaction with the same combo - I think you would not go wrong either way and, dollar for dollar, be where you want to be. I’m sitting here with my first cold beer listening to a collection of jazz greats, thinking "how lucky we are, as audiophiles, to have the experience of enjoying the music we love, through the wonderful system/systems that we have spent so much time, money and dedication - to assemble for that single purpose". Best of luck and happy listening.....Jim |
Away from my thread for one day and found quite numbers of replies. First come first, thank you so so much for all your inputs. I’m so thankful to have all of your advice! I’m a newbie to A’Gon forum, and I truely appreciate all your sharing. I believe that’s the power of internet and knowledge sharing. As a hobby, audio or so called “hifi” have bring me joy for the pass fourteen years. I did spent “some” money and learn “some” lessons, and proving that some comments above are very true. In short, this is a hobby and with no right or wrong. Sometimes the fun comes from the trial and error. You can pay a big bill but earn nothing, or take a free advice and got a big jump to the result. That’s the magic!...sometime my wife never understand...LOL Well, still staying at the crossroad between H360 and PM10...... |
@jakebenton Glad to hear your new A3s came in and are working so well with the Hegel. With all of the good reports, recommendations and overall character and qualities of the Hegel H360, it seems that it would be a sound choice to pair with the A3s Truly, there are few things more enjoyable than kicking back to good music through a system that brings the heart and sole of a wonderful performance into your home - especially when you can share the joy with a someone special+++.....Jim |
@jhills - Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad to see there are others here who want to share the joy. Speaking of joy... I got a surprise call from my dealer on Thursday morning and they had my A3s ready for pick-up! I’ve been breaking them in with the Hegel H360 for the last few days and so far it’s been amazing. From the first track I played I went from thinking I was nuts for spending so much money to wondering why I hadn’t done this years ago. My wife and I spent last evening drinking cocktails and listening to Laura Marling. It was amazing - and probably the second best thing you can do with a beautiful, tipsy women in the dark :-) |
@jakebenton I think this is a hobby and I’ll never understand why people like you try to take the fun out of it for everyone else. Your whole response to sinewaveron was well put. You'll soon learn, there are a few on here who never miss an opportunity to brag about themselves or their uber expensive equipment while demeaning someone else - Whatever Stokes Their Ego. There are also a good many who regularly give helpful advice, so hang in here with us - we're not all jerks...Jim |
audiotroy979 posts07-04-2018 11:41pmSinewaveron, we both agree and disagree, we were former Hegel dealers and their products were excellent.This is the most helpful response thus far in this thread. Kudos Dave and Troy. The Magico A3’s are a similarly moderate load to my S5 Mk2’s, being 88db @4ohms. I drive my speakers with a Vitus SIA-025 which is a good match overall in my medium size room. Though obviously that amp would be over-kill on the A3’s. Fyi I recently reviewed the new Vitus RI-101 for Stereonet NZ site & was impressed - https://www.stereonet.co.nz/forums/topic/16208-my-impressions-of-the-vitus-ri-101-integrated/ The RI-101 is powerful, well balanced, natural sounding & has a nice musical flow. Although it is essentially neutral sounding, there is a touch of warmth which the A3’s will need, The RI-101 also sounds a bit tube-like - not as much as the SIA-025, but it sounds closer to the SIA than its predecessor. I auditioned the amp with Magico S3 Mk2’s and thought that was a good match for synergy. So the A3’s should also pair well. Though as David Ten noted, there is no substitute for a home audition, or atleast an audition in a Dealer’s showroom. Re: Luxman. I recently A-B compared the Luxman M-900U/C-900U against the Accuphase A70/C2850 and Pass XA-250/XP-20 with Harbeth M40.2 Anniversary speakers. Re-reading my listening notes, I preferred Accuphase to both Luxman and Pass in that order. Lux sounded more neutral, has less ’life’, less dynamic constrast/shading, bass was more ’polite’ and sounded less intimate on Jazz vocals than Accuphase. The Pass amps sounded the most tube-like, but I preferred both Lux and Accuphase to Pass overall. Luxman are beautifully built and would suit certain speakers like Sonus Faber well. But with Magico, I think the Lux L-509x suggested by another member would be a bit lean sounding and under-powered driving the A3’s. An Accuphase E-470 would do better, but the new Vitus RI-101 would be a better choice for synergy. Other integrated amps I could recommend which are potentially within your budget would be the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary which would be delivering 300 watts @4 ohms, or the Audia Flight FLS10. Both are terrific integrateds & would pair well with Magico, though personally I prefer the sound of the Audio Analogue which is beautifully built and sounds musical. If you couldn’t access or quite afford the RI-100, that would be my pick. However if you have a large size room, the FLS10 might be the better option as it has a bit more power. Good luck with your auditions! Ps: A long-awaited welcome back to me (’Melbguy1’). I had to re-join after a blanket ban it seems, though I am still trying to get that sorted out. Hi to my old friends here. |
@ eldonfung, I will throw some Insight here, magico by nature is a cold, analytical highly resolving speaker, so I decided to take on the challenge of making this speaker sound incredible, I have the magico q3 speaker's on my second system, after many auditions, I found the synergy, this is amazing, I have got 200 hrs of break in on the Tara Lab's muse speaker cable's and interconnect's, Tara Lab's cobalt power cord connected to the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier on a dedicated line with furutech gtx-Rhodium duplex receptacle's, cable's are significant here, you need to research all that is said on this post, I believ you will like what you find out, I am also pulling the trigger on the ps audio direct stream memory dac and matching transport, the current flagship digital to round every thing out, this digital does every thing, check it out, I hope this helps, reply back when you can, cheers |
So I have a vitus ri-100 and an rs-100, a PS bhk 250, a Hegel 160, and an accuphase e-470, driving TAD cr-1s, TAD evolution ones, Sonus Faber cremona ms, Sonus Faber luitos, and Vienna acoustic Mozart’s. Bottom line is i can mix up the amps with the speakers and get very different results in terms of sound, speed and listenability. I also have had a pass int 150, pass int 60, plinius, ARC reference 110, ARC ref 75SE and a Hegel 300. The real answer is to try out different amps with you magicos in your room with YOUR ears and see what YOU like. That’s all that matters. Audio is like art. Somethings that some treasure are abhored by others. The one thing i find is the more that some spend, the more rabid they become in convincing everyone their choice is the best. But let your ears decide. BTW right now I’ve falling in love with the PS BHK. Rolled it with some amperex 6922 tubes. Is kicking ass with my TAD CR-1s |
Krell is having a sale on their integrated amps. The Vanguard Amplifier retails for $4500.00 and will be made available to our legacy customers for $3200.00 plus freight, a savings of $1300.00. The Vanguard Digital Amplifier retails for $6000.00 and will be made available tour legacy customers for $4200.00 plus freight, a savings of $1800.00. The Vanguard family of amplifiers are powerful enough to drive even the most inefficient speakers with head room to spare and have received rave notices from both the recent Axpona and Rocky Mountain Audiofest attendees for flexibility and convenience of the digital interface and the sound performance of its DAC. To read a nice review of the Vanguard from Hi-Fi+ please click here. Gordon Shackelford Vice President, Sales Krell Industries LLC 641-919-3249 Gordons@krellonline.com |
I put Hegel H360 on my list as I believe apart from power, the damping factor is equally important to the Magico case. While a powerful sport car could drive fast and KO others easily. The driver and the engineer also need to make sure the car should have a competible braking system to make the car stop, or have proper control at the corner. |
@audiotroy I agree that what I heard could be described as clean and without mid-range bloom. In other words, to me at least, it sounded accurate. Perhaps Mr. Wolf recommends this combination because he (as the voicing of his speakers indicates) prefers clean sound as well - I must admit I’m having a hard time seeing that as a bad thing, but since I haven’t even brought the speakers home yet I will reserve judgement. I also wanted to point out that I think "... that is not in debate and your $25k Vitus should squash a $5k Hegel" is quite a clever thing to say. Careful use of the word "should" instead of "would" here has given you an out on what would otherwise be a very silly statement. I say that would be silly because it would then imply that price is a reliable indicator of performance in luxury goods which is laughable (even when being made by someone with obvious vested interests in doing so). Well played sir. Well played. For anyone reading this that might think price=performance, please see http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/ for some extreme examples to the contrary. Note some of the Chevy products on the list and their position such as the Camaro ZL1. |
@AudioTroy. Thanks, I understand where your coming from. I was just messing around a little bit. My Vitus actually replaced a Pass Labs Int-60 amp. I just couldn't get use of the treble, sounded on bright side to me. Now with Vitus, sound is slightly warm, yet micro dynamics still there. Anyway, most important is synergy, and what your buget is. Take Care. Siltech |
Sinewaveron, Thank you for you’re reply and asking me what I think. In the spirit in which your gracious post was written, here are my thoughts per your request: I think your aggressive response to a first time poster trying to be helpful and answer an open call for opinions uncalled for and suspicious. I think that for someone who likes to talk about distortion - it is really bizarre for you to then recommend pairing a 25k amp with 9.8k speakers. I say this because speakers produce by far more distortion (like hundreds of times more) than all other components combined in a modern audio system and most people who know this allocate their budgets differently. I think you have spent so much time evangelizing your amp (for whatever reason) that you’ve completely lost sight of the big picture. I think this is a hobby and I’ll never understand why people like you try to take the fun out of it for everyone else. Hope this is what you were looking for and thanks for reading. |
Sinewaveron, we both agree and disagree, we were former Hegel dealers and their products were excellent. Whether an amp is class A or Class A/B is just one of the factors in determining sound quality, amounts of feedback, feed forward, type of feedback, circuit design, circuit implimentation and parts selection, and circuit voicing is just as important. When we had the Hegel line we also had the Luxman line and we did prefer the 20 watt Class A Luxman, but we sold more Unision Research Unico 50 which were a class A/B solid state amp with a tube preamp stage then both of thoese products. As per Pass, Gryphon or Vitus being better that may be much more to do with the design and implimentation of the product By the way we also sell T+A gear which is class A/B there have been a few people here who had Pass gear which was outperformed by the T+A and T+A is also in the uber class of high end and their products are consistantly rated among the best of the best. The point is you must evaluate a product for the way it sounds and not just its technology or class of operation. Hegel’s designs are fast, open, clean with good dynamics, and excellent bass control, as per Alon Wolf raving about the Hegel H360, why wouldn’t he it would give many of his speakers a tighter bass and the amp is less expensive to allow for more expensive Magico speaker pairings. Personally I would think the combo would not be that good, as the Magico line tends to be a bit on the more reservered, cleaner with less midrange bloom which is how the Hegel sounds, we would most likely use a warmer richer puncher amplifier to bring out a bit more midrange magic and liquidity to the Magicos which is how we like to voice our systems. As per Vitus being great stuff that is not in debate and your $25k Vitus should squash a $5k Hegel. Whether of not their new super integrated is that good will all depend on how Hegel has implimented the design and of course how it sounds, to make such statements that because a Hegel is a class A/B product and therefore not as good as a Vitus shows you have an inate bias and are not open to what we all must do in audio which is to go out and listen and then do exact comparisons on the same equipment. Hegel’s new super integrated might be fantastic or only a bit better than their previous offerings. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Next time you see Alon Wolf, ask him if Hegal is better than Class A amps such as Pass Labs, Gryphon or Vitus. Better more, bring your light weight Hegal to any of the above dealers and compare. There isn't any comparison. I used Class AB amps for 20 years, because cheaper than Class A. I learned my lesson. All my friends that hear my stereo are blown away. Forget AB |
Hegal tries to eliminate crossover distortion which all Class AB amps do. You can try different methods, but still impossible to eliminate. Any Audiophile should no the only way to eliminate it 100%, is using true Class A design, not AB. Crossover distortion is when the audio sinewave switches from one half waveform to next half. Yes Audiophiles, this is audible. Once again, only Class A dosnt have crossover distortion because it always running full power. This is one of reasons Class A sounds best. Virtually all Ultra High End Audiophiles use Class A amps. Now a days Class A amps are much more efficient, and radiate less heat. If you want best possible sound, Class A in solid state or tubes. Also, the rest of amp has to be there ( Gryphon- Vitus ) Hegal is only mentioned because cost combatabity with Magic A3's. ($5700 with $9800). Oviously if you can afford a better amp, you'll get better results. I doubt 99.9% of people on this forum no more than myself in Elecronics. Read and learn. |
Hegel H590 is coming out in a few months and it is Hegel's version of a super integrated. Take a look at the video located on the bottom of the following linked page. https://darko.audio/2018/05/statement-made-hegel-debut-h590-with-kef-blade/ Alon Wolf was also raving about the Hegel (old model) on the Soundstage.com interview. |
According to hifiplus - Alon Wolf himself recommends the Hegel H360 (source: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/exclusive-first-listen-magico-a3/). I don’t think you will get a better recommendation than one from the founder of the Magico. That being said.. for what it’s worth I demoed the A3s with that amp and ended up ordering both. There are plenty of reviews of the H360 out there if you’re interested. My review would be summed up with two words: "effortless power". Cheers! |
Do you realize normal listening volumes are 5 to 10 watts. If you think your listening at high volume to high power, then put a wattmeter on wall plug to measure actual power and you may be surprised. Most people will say ya ya. Try meter, and prove it too yourself. Most people don’t have a clue. A lot of amps distort like crazy, after there in there middle volume levels. The 50 watts minimum rating on A3’s is only a guide. Vitus Audio amps are way under rated power. Vitus Audio uses custom patented UI core transformers. Max voltage drop is 3%. Almost every other amp uses Toridal transformers, with a 25% voltage drop. You do the math. My Vitus SIA-025 MKll go very loud, crytal clear, non fatiguing, great. Let’s do some math. Every 3db level is double power, but only 1/10th greater for human hearing. Our hearing is logarithmic, and double listening levels is 10 times power. This means if your listening to 50 watts RMS, will take 500 watts RMS to hear double. These are facts. Once again, 99% of most people listening levels use less than 10 Watts. Don’t get sucked in. Exception would be low sensitivity speakers.....ie 85db. Anyway, Magico A3’s are pretty efficient at 88db. I had high power Bryston, Krell, Passlabs amps. My Vitus at loud levels blow all previous amps away in SONIC BLISS. The three previous amps aren’t in the same league. BOTTOM LINE YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, LIKE ANYTHING ELSE IN LIFE. Siltech |
Go for a Rogers EHF 200...Lifetime warranty, so there is the extra pressure to stay alive. Another note...a pic from someplace of a Magico factory tour showed a QSC GX3 300 watts PS pro power amp on a shelf...I wonder what they use that thing for. I have one of those for live stuff I do, and it's amazing...cost less than 300 bucks new. |
I evaluated the S5's in my search for a new pair of speakers. My local Magico dealer had the S5's attached to a powerful solid state amp with an extremely high damping factor, when pushed hard, the S5's "came to life". When their "high end room" became available, the moved the S5's into that room and attached it to a tube power amp, and the speakers sounded MUCH better, had more bass, smoother highs and didn't seem to be driven as hard (as with the solid state amp) to "come to life". |
@eldonfung I encourage you to be patient and wait until you have the A3s in your own system. Evaluate amp pairings at that time via loan and demo units from a number of manufacturers/dealers. It’s really the only way to do it. For example, crossing off one option based off of one demo at a show is, in my opinion, not helpful...a setup rife with false negatives (in/under those circumstances). Bring what you can into your own home / room and choose. Take your time. You are making a major investment in your own enjoyment and satisfaction (not just financially). All the best. |