I just recently returned a Innuos Zenith 3 with 2 TB SSD and after a few days with it I like it a lot and I’m ready to purchase one. With adding the Phoenix and cables it puts it at the very top of my budget. SteveHuffs comments above sound a little off to me regarding his experience with the entry level Innuos server with the added Phoenix out performing the stand alone Zenith 3 . How is it the Phoenix re-clocker could bring the sound quality of the Zen Mini that far ? Im just curious because of my time spent with the Zenith , it’s a hit with me and with all the other re-clocker converters on the market for much less of the price of the Phoenix I. wonder has anyone here done any direct comparisons?
I have one on loan from my local dealer and have for about a week. Placing my order today after an entire week of testing it out. But I use a Zen MINI MKIII and it drastically improves it with exactly the same things LiquidSound said above.
When I listen for a few days with the Phoenix, and then remove it I notice a collapse in Soundstage, less bass, more grain and less refinement and air. When it goes back in, it's like an all new server. Refinement, smooth, wide soundstage, more holographic, etc. All the good things get better, and not by a tiny margin.
I also have the power supply on order for the Mini III and feel a Mini with Power Supply and Phoenix will be quite special. It already is with the re-clocker. My dealer says he has no idea if they are in stock, which tells me there may be a wait. I have been waiting on my Mini MKIII power supply for about 3 weeks now. The Mini III came in one week.
Anyway, the Phoenix makes a difference and a good one, with the Mini MKIII. IN fact I auditioned the Zenith III and prefer the sound of the Mini III with Reclocker over the Zenith III. It took me a week of audition to relieve I had to have the Phoenix. Again, when I took it out...I lost a lot of the magic. Cant explain it, but it works and I am not using crazy cables. I have one Audioqest Diamond USB and one Forest USB. The Phoenix ships with a power cable and USB cable. I tried the stock USB and it's just as good as my Forest. I do not feel I need to buy another Diamond and won't. Nor will I upgrade the power cable on the Phoenix. Its great as is.
pipedream32 posts02-14-2020 2:55pmWe are NYC dealers for Innuos. Hopefully we will be getting our Phoenix order shortly. Just so popular everyone wants one.
LOL! That's what all dealers have been saying since last October
We are NYC dealers for Innuos. Hopefully we will be getting our Phoenix order shortly. Just so popular everyone wants one. We offer in home demo. rollo14@verizon.net
@liquidsound, so this demo was right out of the box? Not sure if this is the type of product that will benefit from break in time? Also wondering what DAC he is using? Lastly, any idea when he ordered it and when he took delivery? TIA.
I was pretty skeptical about the new Phoenix Re-Clocker having much effect on the music from an already great ZENith MKIII, especially with the added $3149.00 cost ! Yesterday, I had the opportunity to audition a Phoenix-ReClocker with ZENith MKIII. My friend has the almost exact setup I have with his electronics/speakers so this was a very good audition for me. We played a variety of familiar and unfamiliar songs in different categories through the MKIII with and without the Phoenix Re-Clocker in play and in every case, there was a very noticeable positive difference with the Re-Clocker. What I noticed almost immediately was the absence of any grain, especially in female vocals, more "body" to the musical experience, and a slight widening, and deepening of the presented sound-stage. The Re-Clocker took a very good music server and moved the sonic experience up a notable jump. Needless to say, the proof is in the listening. I’ve just ordered one for my system ! For those of us who find the Innuos Statement's price a bit too much to shell out, this is a great upgrade.
We go in our Phoenix and it does make a Zenith noticably better.
The unit is a bit frustrating there is no led's to let you know it is on, nor does it show up as a Phonix, basically the signal just shows up as to what ever you were hooked up to before.
The sonic difference is easily noticable as an over all improvement in the Zenith. the soundstage sounds bigger, the sound is cleaner, in our second demo room the sound was clearly better for every setup we hooked up to
So yes the Phoenix works and yes it takes a good server and makes it sound considerably better.
I agree with you. And someone with a less costly server might benefit from from adding the Phoenix and make more sense/cents. For me the total cost each way (my ZENith mk2 SE + Phoenix vs Statement) is too close.
As far as availability, I spoke with an Innuos rep a month ago who told me there was plenty of Phoenix stock. I haven't called dealers to verify that though.
Yes sure Ron, but you will probably need those footers for the Statement’s outboard power supply too. And probably upgrade the umbilical cord as well. You would definitely save on the additional AC power cord for sure
On another note, re: Phoenix USB, it’s my understanding that the only people who have actually received it, are select dealers as Demo. The only actual customer (non-dealer) I have personally “met” online that has confirmed possession of a Phoenix is located in Germany. None in US. Zip
How I did the math.....I have a ZENith mk2 SE (4TB) that retailed for $9k. The Phoenix Reclocker retails for $3150.00. The Phoenix would require an additional power cord + footers + another USB cable. Let's say you spend $1.5k on the additional PC, footers and USB cable. That brings a total of aprox. $13,650 (retail). A new Statement with 2 TB's retails for $14,400. I spoke to Mark Sossa (Innuos importer that I bought my ZENith mk2 SE from) and someone I met on Agon who had the ZENith mk2 SE and now owns the Statement and both of them told me the Statement was a BIG step up from the SE. Mark told me the ZENith mk2 SE + the Phoenix gets close but that the Statement was still superior in every way..... So I thought I would rather spend a few bucks more and get the better sounding Statement....Also I use all Nordost cables and Stillpoints Ultra 6's on my ZENith mk2 SE so the figure of $1.5k on the additional power cord, USB cable and isolation would actually run me more, making the cost between the two versions about the same $. I understand that you don't have to use footers under the Phoenix and you can spend less on a PC and USB but I found (in my system) that those 3 items really made a BIG improvement in SQ vs cheaper versions.
I am looking for a used or demo Statement at the moment.
I ordered a Zenith Mk3 from a dealer outside of Boston 2 1/2 weeks ago. I asked them what the delivery time was and they said a week but it is not in yet. While there I asked about the reclocker and they said they had one on order. Given that and the fact that @audiotroy said he would give an update as soon as he got his (on 1/3) I'd agree on the speculation that they are running into supply or manufacturing issues.
I'm running USB from laptop into integrated amp (office system).... thinking this would be a noticeable upgrade. Looking forward to hearing everybody's impressions.
Hey @ron17 —- It seems like you have already done the math here. And since you have the previous generation of Zenith, I agree with you: go for the mighty Statement
@spookyfoot Thank you for your thoughts on the Phoenix reclocker. I have an Innuos ZENith mk2 SE and have been considering the Statement or adding the Phoenix to my mk2 SE. After doing the math ie... cost of the ZENith mk2 SE + Phoenix + an additional USB + additional powercord + footers, the total cost is close to that of a Statement. I'm really on the fence here. I did talk with someone who has owned the ZENith mk2 SE and now owns the Statement and he told me to go for the Statement because of the additional power supply.
I've had the new Innuos Phoenix Reclocker for a little over a week now. I am running my Innuos ZENith MKII server to it and then on to my Schiit Ygdrasil (A2),McIntosh MA8900 & on to a pair of KEF R11's. So far I am very impressed. I can't detect much change in the midrange but the extension in low & high frequencies is very noticeable & stunning at times. Some tracks I think I may notice a slight improvement but then others are like being hit by a 2x4. Just this morning 'You Not Me' from Dream Theater came on my server & the resolution & clarity, separation of instruments made me stop what I was doing & listen to it twice. It's like it has removed a barrier & my system is deeper in bass than ever before & cymbal rings & decay seem to hang in the air with a sustain that is just awesome. I do zero streaming, my music server consists of my CD collection that I have ripped to it in FLAC, so I can't speak to how it sounds from a streaming perspective. I will also note I am also using a custom power cable & usb in & out from Triode Wire Labs. So far so good!
Just saw that command performance A/V (Fairfax va) now has this reclocker. Very curious to see if anyone with an Aurender N100 gives this a try and appreciates the result.
I have the ZENith MKII & am sending it to a Yggdrasil (A2) dac...I love the sound but this Phoenix has me curious. Based on what I'm reading from some folks that have heard the difference it can make it may be well worth plunking down the $3k if it makes that big of a sonic jump!
Just to mention, I had a Zenith SE in a network powered by Sean Jacobs DC3s throughout, before upgrading to a Statement, so I’m quite familiar with their performance and with getting the best out of the units. The Statement has 3 USB ports, one optimized for a DAC with a 3ppb clock and dedicated linear power supply rail and 2 others similar to the Zenith’s, For the record, the Zenith SE offers amazing sound quality that the Statement builds on and extends. To my ears, the SE was in no way lacking and showed no ‘faults’ or ‘anomalies’ whatsoever and I could perfectly happily live with the SEs sound and be utterly delighted. The Statement is therefore a joy machine....it takes what the SE produces and adds more detail, colour intensity, musicals contours, air, focus, texture, precision, purity, rhythmic interplay and timing, timbral information, super low level detail, top end shimmer and sparkle, musical insight. A piece of music you know very well will sound awesome through the SE. With the Statement its like throwing the window wide open so you can ‘feel’ more and better understand the musician’s message. Old songs like Cat Stevens or JJ Cale shine with new structure, detail and beauty and you’ll even better appreciate just how damned good some of these artists really are. So this is a Phoenix thread and I’ve never heard a Phoenix. But what I have heard is something very equivalent.....Playing the Statement through a standard USB port is the approximate equivalent of subtracting the Phoenix’s performance from the Statement. If the Zenith SE plus Phoenix almost equals a Statement, then logically a Statement minus a Phoenix should almost equal a Zenith SE. So does it? In a word, NO. There’s a lot more to a Statement than just the USB port, so a Statement minus Phoenix is still clearly superior to a Zenith SE and therefore a Zenith Mk3. Why? Firstly the Statement’s incoming data stream its greeted by an Ethernet version of ‘Phoenix’....a very special ethernet board with similar 3ppb clock and linear supply rail. The Statement’s motherboard has been further developed to remove noise, while the entire case is milled from EMI shielding aluminium. The Statement’s power supplies are substantial further developments of the SE's and while Phoenix requires 2 usb cables plus connectors, the components in the Statement are adjacent and hard wired. Further, the Statement’s clock synthesisers are in a separate housing, isolated from any vibration generated by the transformer and AC/DC conversion. So what does all this mean? I guess what I’m saying is that in my book at least, the Innuos Zenith SE produced wonderful music that even the most picky audiophile should be entirely happy with. Adding Phoenix to that mix adds a major dollop of extra joy and beauty to the sound that I have detailed above. To the point you don’t need a Statement? That depends. An SE + Phoenix will give you sound quality of a level better than you’ve probably ever heard before. Stunningly good. BUT, if you have the money, love music, spend hours a day listening and are obsessed with getting the very best, the Statement really is the peak. The SE/Zenith Mk3 and Phoenix lack nothing, but once you’ve heard a well optimised Statement you will very likely agree that it is actually worth the extra $$$. I certainly believe so....
I can't speak to using an ethernet cable from an Innuos to a dac, but at RMAF, Innuos was using a usb cable. I presume Innuos used the usb because it felt that would best show off its product. Nevertheless, if you own a dac like mine, a light harmonics dual dac, that does not have an ehternet cable input, you are stuck with usb if you have an Innuos. As far as usb goes, there was minimal difference between the Zenith plus the Phoenix reclocker when those two were compared to the Statement. If i were going to buy an Innuos, i would get the Zenith and the Phoenix, not the statement.
For anyone who hasn't yet bought a server/player, after RMAF i was able to borrow a Zenith without the Phoenix and an Aurender W20SE. Now the Aurender W20SE is i think about $22,500, but using an AES/EBU cable into my dac the W20SE was the best sound i have ever heard. I have a huge vinyl collection and a great turntable set up, and the W20SE rivaled or bettered the turntable sound. Aurender doesn't do Roon, but its softare/controller is excellent.
Both products were great. I think Innuos makes good products and the zenith/phoenix combo for around $8500 is excellent, but the Aurender was the best i've ever hear, although much more expensive.
Dave and Troy: OK thanks. Needless to say, this would be irrelevant if one feeds their DAC via USB (from either Statement or Phoenix / Zenith combo), and no Ethernet is needed for the DAC. But then, if that's the case, Phoenix is not needed anyway, right?
I was at RMAF and heard the Zenith MKIII, then heard the Zenith MK III with the Phoenix reclocker and then heard the Statement. I sat through that demo 3 or 4 times and the Phoenix reclocker made a huge difference and greatly improved the Zenith MK III, so much so that the Zenith plus the Phoenix made me wonder why anyone would buy a statement.
Thanks Troy! Good to know. I had been waiting for one or two that were waiting since March to return to one of the other threads, so I assumed they were still waiting.
Has anyone around here, that’s been waiting for months, received a server unit or any word from them? I’m not waiting, just interested if any of the member that ordered this past spring has had any movement at all.
An external re-clocker for $3150 plus the cost of two high quality USB cables....one must access the competition before you dump another $4200 for a USB performance upgrade.
Nevertheless, it’s an option to upgrade USB performance for their lower priced mid-fi streamers. Kudos to Innuos for staying innovative.....I do admire the company that offers the upgrade path for their existing customer base.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
