Thank you onhwy61 Eventually, I will try to get a few pics of my system up here. Tried a few years ago and, even though it looked like the pics were loading, they never appeared anywhere so I gave up. I'll look into it again.
Impressions of the 5 types of slugs / sluggos I've experienced
To start, let's just say all slugs are hypothetically used in the Swiss Digital Fuse Box. As described below though, all impressions are with slugs directly installed in the listed components. Some will consider this dangerous and, of course, it can be but we're all adults here so you can decide whether it's worth the risk to run slugs directly in the components or to invest in several of the SDFB instead.
A few years ago, I was looking for the next upgrade, was generally content with my components and cables, and didn't want to spend big bucks. I decided to look into audiophile fuses and, after a lot of reading, concluded that the good fuses were expensive, especially for several components and there were many reports that some fuses would blow upon turn on so going with a higher rating would be wise. By luck I found a discussion here about using slugs in place of fuses and that some felt them to sound better than the higher end fuses. I started by ordering 3/16" x 12" rods of copper and titanium from McMaster-Carr, found precut silver slugs from Golden State Silver out of California, and then bought molybdenum and tungsten rods from a manufacturer directly and used a local machine shop to have the rods cut to the standard 20mm length. I have had no issues with any of the slugs on any of my components and must say, even the least impressive (IMHO) copper slugs were a very significant upgrade from the stock fuses. The others, to me in my system, were the kind of improvement I would expect from a significant component upgrade. The differences were BIG!!! I'll try to discuss each below as objectively as I can and will list my system at the end.
COPPER: Compared to the stock fuses, the copper sounds more powerful and fuller, with greater bass weight. The detail is more apparent but, overall, there isn't any brightness, actually taming a pesky sibilance I had been occasionally experiencing. If I had just installed the copper slugs in all my components without hearing the other slugs, I would have been happy with that and my system wouldn't sound, at all, like it does now. I would not have invested a couple grand in cables (used prices) as I have done this last year. Knowing this, I'm thrilled that I did investigate these other metals as I find them all to be a big step up from the copper slugs but must still point out that the coppers are much better than the stock fuses and would definitely recommend giving them a try.
SILVER: The silver slugs I tried, and I only had 2, sounded just about like what you'd expect good silver cables to sound like. Generally, the detail is quite good, top to bottom, the soundstaging/imaging is well focused with a good sense of the performers and the recording venue, dynamics are quite respectable. All in all, these do everything right. The slugs I acquired are even a bit sweet sounding. I could live with having these only, installed in all my components but, the next 3 do some things better but other things less well. And this has led me to believe the best sound will be achieved by mixing/matching the various types of slugs.
MOLYBDENUM: The molys have the top end air/extension/detail of silver. However, they are more full sounding in the bass up to the mid-midrange, giving them more body and weight. If your system sounds light-weight, the molys will put some meat on the bone. They are also more dynamic than the silvers but still sound "musical". For these reasons though, I have found they work best when mixed with tungsten and/or titanium slugs otherwise the low end can be a bit overpowering and sound too exuberant. Of course, system matching and synergy are everything and, in a system lacking weight and vigor, these could be just what is needed.
TUNGSTEN: These are a bit more detailed than the silvers and molys, I think because they lessen the "smearing" that has always been in my systems. I didn't know it was there until the tungstens showed me what my system could sound like without it. They are more focused with more lifelike images. The sounds are just more "real" It's the bass, though, that really has stood out to me. While the molys have a big, full bass, the tungstens have excellent, tight, controlled bass with lots of SLAM. I actually have to dial down the output and crossover point on my active crossover when going from any other slug(s) to the tungstens. I'm less thrilled about the top end, though, as it seems a bit recessed...maybe. It's not rolled off sounding nor lacking detail, it just doesn't have the sparkle of the silvers, molys, or titaniums. And running all tungsten slugs give a detailed and well controlled sound, precise sound, but it lacks a bit on top and loses a bit of musicality, sounded too "matter of fact" for my taste. Again, mixing/matching works best for these too.
TITANIUM: OK, I love these and would like my system A LOT less without them but....they're kinda weird. Positives first, the subtle inner detail is excellent, IMHO and I mean the kind of low level detail like decays, the oscillating tones in electronic music (usually these notes sound like a single tone but with the titaniums, it's easy to hear the warbling effects that sustain these notes), breath... and they do soundstaging like crazy, with precise locations and they track movement across the soundstage almost moving pixel by pixel, if that were how sound was reproduced. In a way, they sound kinda spooky. And I mentioned that the tungstens reduce "smearing" of sounds, well the titaniums do this to an even greater degree. The sounds are just SOOO clear with titaniums in the mix. On the downside though, they reduce midrange density and can push the lead vocals down in the mix while still displaying all sounds clearly and in their own specific location. Vocals can sound downright "wrong" with the titaniums, mechanical even. I don't really notice a problem with other sounds/instruments. It's the vocal that really suffer. So, I would never go all titaniums. It would be almost unlistenable on most records. I like to balance them out with the molys or tungstens, preferably in the amps and crossover. The titaniums worst best, for me, in my DAC and transport. If you want that saturated sound with tonal colors, these are not for you.
System--------------------------------------------------------
Custom speakers using Eton drivers (looks like Legacy Focus)--bass drivers are Peerless 1259s
pair of Red Dragon S-500 amps vertically biamped (not bridged)
either Bel Canto DAC 2.8 or Audio Alchemy DDP-1/PS-5 with RAL upgraded umbilical
2 Bel Canto CD3t transports----different digital cables and slugs to achieve very different sounds
NHT x-2 crossover
all plugged into Equi-Core 1800 with Cruze Audio Maestro outlets
speaker cables: Ridge Street Audio Altethias
Interconnects: from DAC xlr to Red Dragon xlr Kitsune
from DAC rca to NHT x2 xlr custom DIY silver
from NHT x2 xlr to Red Dragon xlr 6sons Audio Golden Eagle
power cords: to Equi Core 1800 and Red Dragons 6Sons Audio Golden Eagle w/Acrolink plugs
to Bel Canto transports Furutech FP TCS-21 w/IeGO 8095 plugs
to DAC: Wollf Audio BOHICA w/Oyaide 004
digital cables: Grover Huffman Pharaoh w/Oyaide Focus 1 xlr
Marigo Audio Apparition Extreme v2
22 responses Add your response
Bro, my system is just fine the way it is. The sound has been tailored to suit me and the cables are a major factor in having gotten here, slugs are the icing on the cake. And the idea that I should upgrade my components and just wire them with generic cable, which would result in better sound than I currently have is laughable. All I have to do is throw in stock power cords to hear the soundstage collapse, details disappear, the bass bloat and loose texture, and then to lose my interest fully so no thanks. But you weren't trying to be helpful, no, you were just trying to be a &$#@ and you achieved that admirably. |
Respectfully, your system, as you describe it in your original post, is in dire need of next-level component upgrades. You may want to try just that - auditioning and incorporating carefully selected hi-fi components - instead of engaging in practices that amount to applying band-aids to a wooden leg. Again respectfully, if you had invested the small fortune you appear to have That said, tweakers never describe their systems, so kudos for doing so.
I feel I have to answer that one, lest I’m portrayed as some kind of denyer. In short: cables have (very measurable) LCR properties, therefore it makes sense that cables carrying an analog signal, and especially speaker cables, make a difference in the quality of the end sound. However, depending on the particular amps and speakers that are being connected, cables may not make any perceivable difference; and when they do, there is zero guarantee that said difference will be a positive one. |
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@lcherepkai - Thank you for your clarification. No offense taken. These tweak conversations and the effects of various tweaks on one's system are subjective and personal, and they always have been. Therefore, even when I question the technical support for certain tweaks, I try not to impose my observations and opinions on others and I recognize that others have their own unique systems and hear things differently from me. As to the resolution of my system, and my ability to detect sonic changes, I have no idea how those compare with others. I do hear changes resulting from components, speakers, and cables, but have not heard what I would consider reliably discernable sonic changes resulting from most tweaks. However, even though I don't always reliably/repeatedly hear changes, I do incorporate certain tweaks in my system that I believe may have a positive effect based on the technology. |
devinplombier: I really hope mitch2 did not find my question about system detail resolution offensive. It was definitely not intended to be, and you have misunderstood me on this issue. There are a lot of fine systems out there that aren't focused on getting the highest degree of resolution, instead being more concerned with a warmer, sweeter, and more forgiving sound. That's perfectly alright, each too their own but going in that direction might make it less apparent when "tweaks" are effective and not just "ineffectual amulets". I have done a lot of experimentation over my 4 decades of being an audiophile and some things have had no detectable effect whatsoever (couldn't hear any difference with Shakti Stones nor do I hear any difference between the filter selection on my AA DDP-1 dac). However, installing these slugs in place of the stock fuses has made a very significant difference, to the point where I consider them ESSENTIAL. The improvement in sound is easily on the order of magnitude of a next-level component upgrade. That may not make sense to you, but it is easily testable. Have you tried higher end audiophile fuses or slugs in your components? What is your opinion on cables? Plugs and connectors? Outlets? |
mitch2: After reading devinplombier's post, I would like to clarify that, by asking if your system is sufficiently resolving so as to display the differences between the stock fuses and the copper sluggos, that was not intended to be any sort of insult whatsoever. Not everyone has geared their system toward a more resolved sound, many preferring a warmer, sweeter, and more forgiving sound. That was the direction of my question. I hope you didn't find it offensive but my offer to let you hear the moly and tungsten slugs in your system stands
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Tweakers traffic in and rely on ignorance to peddle their ineffectual amulets. Folks - start at learning how a regulated linear power supply works. But let’s back up for a second. You are inserting expensive fuses made of exotic metals into 10-cent fuse holders made of cheap steel - a ferrous metal, by the way - but you’re saying that, what. the goodness of the expensive fuse leaps over and past the two halves of the fuse holder that bracket it at each end? And of course, as always when a credible and respected audiophile asserts (diplomatically, perhaps too much so) that fuses make no audible difference, the immediate, strident, hoary repartee is shot back:
That’s pretty rich @lcherepkai why don’t you look up the system of the person of whom you ask this inane question, and compare it to your own value-conscious rig which, miraculously, is somehow revealing enough despite its midfi roots to reveal to your ears differences between... fuses?
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audioman58 To avoid damage, you can always use the Swiss Digital Fuse Box. And I bought these various metals just as an experiment. Tungsten has been used by a few reputable manufacturers with very good results. The moly sound is quite musical and I could see many audiophiles appreciating what it brings to the table.
1971gto455ho Are you saying none of the things you listed were made an audible difference in your system(s)? |
Science aside I’ve tried several tweaks if for no other reason curiosity alone. After using solid and stranded copper, Sterling silver,18k gold, fuse mount delete, thick coat hanger ? We found 0 difference ! And it’s definitely not because our systems aren’t revealing, rather multiple pairs of ears. E-pads, contact pastes a bologna sandwich on your preamp what’s next bring it on. 😎 Cheers |
I suppose that a small AC line voltage drop could occur due to an in-line fuse. Therefore, if the greater conductivity offered by using a sluggo reduced or eliminated the voltage drop present when a fuse was installed, and if the component’s power supply did not adequately handle the small voltage drop present when using a fuse, then using a sluggo could theoretically sound different/better. However, audio component power supplies are designed to filter, regulate, and store energy to ensure the component’s internal circuitry receives a stable DC voltage, even with some fluctuation in AC voltage. As a result, I am still doubtful the differences would be audible in most cases, but I do understand how it may be possible for some to hear differences between using fuses and sluggos, with certain components. |
fpomposo I'd be interested in hearing what bypassing the fuse holder would do but I really have the feeling that the slug or SR fuses are doing something, and no idea what, that does change the sound beyond what bypassing would do. That reduction of "smearing" I hear when titanium or tungsten is in the holder, I doubt that would be realized by bypassing the fuse holder but someone with some DIY skills would have to perform that experiment
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From Fluke,
Resistance is the main factor affecting electrical power transmission (e.g., current flow). Materials with higher conductivity offer less resistance to current flow. Of course, being much larger than a fuse filament, even the low conductivity titanium sluggo may offer less resistance than a thin, tin/lead fuse filament. However, I do not understand why there should be any sonic difference between the different sluggos, or between the sluggos and a fuse, as long as the conductivity is sufficient to supply the required current to the component’s power supply. I believe that is why I did not hear any difference when replacing my amp fuses with copper sluggos, both the original fuses and the copper sluggos sufficiently delivered the required current. If there were a sonic difference for some reason that I do not understand, then I would have expected the more conductive copper and silver sluggos should have sounded better than the sluggos made from less conductive materials. |
Is it the sluggo doing a better job of minimizing degradation caused by a fuse or is it somehow altering the AC power in a way that you find euphonic? You can find out by bypassing the fuse holder entirely. Try that and report back the results. I have no problem with components that alter the signal in a way someone likes. |
Interesting post... I became a believer in fuses when I tried out the Synergistic Research fuses trial deal, you could return them if you didn't like them... After installing one in my preamp I ended up replacing every fuse in my entire system and the results were dramatic... Absolutely would never allow a cheapo stock fuse in any component going forward Your slug experimentation is interesting though, makes me wonder what the result would be with a full bypass, move the contact of the fuse holder directly to the mains contact, might be challenging since usually that contact is part of the PCB, but not always. I'm not sure what is in the Synergistic fuses, and now they have even more expensive higher level models, but I do know they really work wonders. But I've been a tweak guy for a long time, all my power cords are Acoustic Zen Krakatoa and I just got a big Acoustic Zen Garbagntua, and I have a single Acoustic Revive cord from Japan that is also excellent. I install large scale networks and structured wiring so I have a ton of experience working on large racks full of gear all with long runs and stock cords, patch cords etc. So I do understand that high end power cords, fuses, and outlets make no sense but I also understand that they actually work..
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Hey mitch2, you heard no benefits, whatsoever, when you replaced the fuses with the copper rod? I'm not thrilled with the copper slugs, but everything improved to me. It was noticeable and significant, if not level of improvement heard with the other metals. And do you find that conductivity equates, at all, with sound quality, or even that there is a correlation between conductivity and any expectation of the sound in general?
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Conductivity of sluggo materials as a percentage of pure, annealed copper, defined by IACS:
While certainly not challenging what you hear, the potential of a fuse or sluggo to possibly affect the sound of an electrical audio component is baffling to me. The fuse is basically an electrical safeguard and an extension of the system of wire, outlet, plugs, and iec that deliver electrical current to the power supply of an audio component. The power supply consists of a transformer to step down the AC voltage from the wall, rectification to convert the low-voltage AC into pulsating DC, and reservoir capacitors that provide stable DC voltage. The fuse is isolated from the signal path and should have no effect on the sound. I installed in-line thermal magnetic breakers (similar to SDFB) supplied by the manufacturer of my amplifiers so that I could conveniently power them on/off. I was then able to replace the line fuses with a piece of copper rod. The amps work fine, but I can hear no sonic changes from before when the fuses were installed.
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