Hello and welcome to the Gon. Silly question, but do you have a ground wire between your turntable and phono stage? If so have you checked the connections since the problem started?
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That was the first thing I checked. I remember a lighter hum after starting the plate and between tracks, but surprisingly it went away after maybe 70/80 hrs. of use. The only thing that’s changed, I moved my audio equipment to the basement a couple of months ago since my youngest son’s bedroom and den’s been empty since he left for college. That’s been fourteen years! We’ve been using the bedroom for guests, so I took over the then. Humidity is not a problem, and the dehumidifier noise is well isolated. One thing I should mention, during the run in period, I replaced the OEM rubber mat with one made of cork, and applied foam insulation to the void in back of the plate. IDK if that helped with the original hum, or it was the run in period that eliminated the hum. |
Could be an interaction between your electrical grid.
When you say "plate", what are you referring to? |
I’m sorry, I meant platter. Far as I can tell, it’s made of aluminum but was hollow on the bottom.
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I used expanding insulation and trimmed it even with the bottom when it dried. As far as electrical, I used to have a large tv with a 5.1 system years ago where I have my audio things now. Never experienced anything similar. Mitsubishi tv, Pioneer Elite processor, Klipsch speakers, several dvd and bp players.
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Check to see if the hum is/isn't there when the tv, refridgerater, etc. is on/off
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The only thing that’s changed, I moved my audio equipment to the basement a couple of months ago
Everything plugged into one outlet? |
Thanks. I just tried that so it wouldn’t be on my mind. I was lucky that the general contractor, (must’ve been an electronics junkie like me😎), suggested separate breakers for areas where I pictured electronics placed. He also installed a breaker box with eight extra breaker slots for when I finished the basement. Don’t laugh, but I’m using a tv antena installed in the attic in 1994 for the tv in our bedroom (1080p/Fire stick) and the tuner in the basement. About thirty miles across the lake from Chicago and great reception! |
Ground hum problems usually come down to trial and error, methodically checking every connection in the signal path, and then also everything connected to the system even not in the signal path. Notice I said everything connected to the system. Since the system is plugged into the wall this unfortunately means pretty much everything plugged in. Noises like this have been tracked down to light switches and phone chargers for example. Hopefully you get lucky but if not oh well at least it doesn't seem to interfere when musics playing. |
No. The only things plugged into a power strip are the tv, bp, pc and the tuner. That outlet is on a different breaker. One thing is certain, I have more faith in the wiring than the ttl. As long as it doesn’t interfere with the music, it’ll be good. I’m going to take it and the preamp upstairs and digitize a couple of records, see if it does it upstairs.
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Ok OP MC asked if everything was plugged into one outlet? Is it?
I see the TV and a few other things are on the same circuit.
Plug nothing into the stereo outlet being used BUT the stereo. No TV, no cable box, nothing. Plug in the source (TT ?) via IC to the integrated, and only the two PC to a single outlet, leave out the powerstrip. NOTHING else. Turn on the overhead light, do your work for the test, if it's still there turn off the overhead light too...
After that, a new ground wire (added between amp and TT) a test lead with clips will work great. If you get rid of the noise, but add it by adding say a CD player, hook the ground clip to the new component, or add a cheater to remove it.. Keep adding until your done with ALL the hums and Buzzes. It may take more than one external ground, check them all, one at a time is best. Add one at a time, is quick..and just need to make up a perm, ground between pieces, if there is an issue.
Happy hunting.
As for the eyebrow raising, I got nothing. :-)
Regards |
Dimmers are also notorious for introducing hum.
Are you near any stores with lighting, like neon?
Bob |
1 Stereo int. Amp on one double outlet by itself (breaker 1 original build)
2 TTL & phono stage on double outlet (breaker 2 when basement finished). One led light for recess where eqp’t is), no dimmer)
3 CD player & tuner (now) on double outlet (breaker 1)
4 PC, TV & BP ON power strip connected to outlet on breaker 3. Shared with irrigation system which runs at 5 am M,W & Th. I will try amp, phono stage & ttl only with a different ground wire, and if successful, add things at a time. Will report when done. Thanks! |
I feel foolish and embarrassed to say the least, rather than publish a string of expletives on this site. I removed the OEM ground wire from the ttl to the phono stage and replaced it with a single strand of 14 gauge speaker wire. Since I had not disconnected anything yet, I put an LP (Gaby Moreno’s Ilución) on the table and tried it. Magic!!! No foreign noise! Upon eyeballing the wire, I couldn’t see anything wrong. I’ll inspect it later under a magnifying glass lamp. I’d like to thank each anybody else that took time out of what your, what are very busy schedules to help me. Again, thanks. |
The big question is "what changed?". You mentioned that you moved things a couple of months ago, but you also say this hum began 7 days ago. So I surmise it was all quiet after the move to the basement.
There is the possibility that the hear wave means dirty (AC/mains) power.
There is a bigger possibility that something changed in the grounding: a loose wire, something you moved its AC to a different plug, etc. MC already asked - but be aware that you ought to have everything plugged into (logically) one outlet. Since you need many physical receptacles use a large, high quality outlet strip to break it down (or, as I do, make your own...)
But the bottom line is SOMETHING is not the same....
G
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I agree. In my excitement, I didn’t take the time to articulate a decent post. Here’s some background. Two months ago, I got the idea of moving my stuff to what was my youngest son’s den/study room before he left for college. Since then we’ve used the spare bedrooms for when family or guests come. The den is furnished and always had a tv. I got rid of the old 5.1 processor, and the speakers some time ago. The audio things I brought up played great until a week, week and a half ago when the turntable started acting up. The ground wire will have to wait until I have time to find if in fact it’s damaged.
The only other thing I can think of, is I wanted a pair of stander speakers instead of dragging the floorstanders to South Texas for the Winter. First, I tried a pair from Monitor Audio. One had very little sound out of the bottom driver. In fairness, the carton had some damage when it arrived. Second, I went with the Q Acoustics Concept 20s. Although that box arrived in good shape, the bigger driver was blown as far as I’m concerned. Very loud static. On both sets, I switched the speakers to the other channel to verify it wasn’t my equipment causing it. I even hooked up my floorstanders and they played perfectly. Dug up the surround speakers from my old Klipsh set, and beside not having any bass to speak of, they worked. When the Q’s were returned, I replaced my home made speaker wires with two pairs of SVS SoundPath speaker wires. I suspect that I either damaged or disturbed the fragile ground wire on the turntable while switching speaker wires, because after doing so I got two new LPs and played them through the floorstanders. That’s when I noticed this issue. Today I received the Wharfedales and sound great right out of the box. Even the LP I played today after replacing the ground wire.
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IDK if there’s any retirees here, but It seems that I, for one, let tools like PDCA, root cause analysis go out the window when I retired. 😂 |
The joint is a jumpin', with the older crowd, or maybe limpin', depends on the journey... :-)
In any case you got it... GOOD..
Regard |
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You know it! I’d still be working if my body could take Winters in NW Indiana! |
I have a fairly high end system with TT on Phono PreAmp. I was getting lots of noise in the TT playback. Turns out it was a Ethernet satellite close by that I used to augment to the internet speeds for streaming. It is a fairly high end satellite system as well. Needed to move it a good 15-20 feet away before I totally lost the noise. |
I’m happy you solved what I think was a much complex problem than mine. I’m curious, was your investigation of the issue a long and arduous one? |
That just goes to show that one badapple doesn't spoil the whole bunch .... 😂 |
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It’s noon somewhere in this Earth |
*G* Like the Firesign Theatre once noted, "There's a Seeker born every minute...." But that's beside the point...;)
Another thing to consider, since you've located in the basement...
Fluorescent lights don't necessarily have to be on the same circut to induce 'racket' into the mix. If the ballasts are the old oil-fill type and are getting on in years, they can really ruin your day.
The new electronic ones are cheaper to run and are quiet. And, if the lamps are 4', they can be swapped out to LED's (but ONLY for the new ballasts....the old ones can't hang with the LED's). And are brighter, cheaper to run, and are dimable....
Just saying....
Have fun, play loud,
J |
....unless it's a finished basement....then the above may not apply....
If it's a Finnish basement, the stairs must be rather long... |
asvjerry, THAT would be a climb. Nah, I always had trouble with the coach light at the curb, I was lucky to get a month out of a light bulb. I bought an led bulb for it over five years ago and it’s still going. That motivated me to switch the whole place to led. To my surprise, My face does not appear orange in photos 🤣. Don’t want a Finnish basement, too lazy to learn a third language... |
In the midst of all this banter, someone else up above was trying to get to the point I think of saying that all your audio system components should be plugged into one electrical outlet, ideally. This is because otherwise you could have been dealing with a ground loop situation, where ground on one of your circuit breakers is maybe a few volts different from ground for the other circuit breaker. That voltage difference can cause hum. This is the reason why you want to plug everything in to the same circuit, and nothing else goes into that circuit. So If your problem returns, that is something you might think about.
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My apologies for mentioning this earlier. I will certainly try that. I’ll see what’s in the market. Of course, I’d certainly appreciate suggestions if anyone can afford the time. Thanks. |
@lewm, that could be one answer, but there appears to be 'ho's' all over the board on that.
Personal stuff is running on 2 different circuits here; both with 'upstream' GFCI's. For a time I had an annoying 'background' *hmmmmm* that started a quest....
Turned out to be a faulty cable with a bad ground side.
Swapping out the ballast on a fluorescent just elimated the *mmmm* of it.
Like Italian sport vehicles, audio is a cruel mistress.... ;)
@badapple, me neither on the third language. Native english can be misunderstood with the drop of a verb, my spanish is limited and ghastly, and any 'off-planet' ones require mouth parts I don't have.....
The only LED that I don't like is the streetlamp that's too close for comfort. I'd slingshot it, but I'm the obvious 'perp' to do so.... |
Oh, btw....Coming here for knowledge is sometimes asking for a drink....
...and getting hit with a firehose....;)
Cheers, J |
I agree that the ground wire is probably the culprit. It could have some corrosion at the contact screws. Also, make certain that all your electronics are plugged in polarized. If you have any two pronged electrical cords, find the marker on them and make certain that the striped or ridged wire side is plugged into the larger hole in the outlet. This is the ground; the other wire is the power, or hot lead.You might also check your cable for corrosion. A simple twist, or better disconnect-connect routine can clean off oxidation. If that works, find some anti ox stuff.
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Haven’t got around to really inspecting the OEM ground wire. It’s very thin and I wouldn’t be surprised the spades are just plain mild steel. I think it was either corrosion and/or I disturbed/damaged it when I changed the speaker cables. I guess that’s what I get for trying to save time?
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Along those lines, Since the early 70s, I’ve always used the same kind of RCA interconnects I use between a tape deck and tuner to the line inputs on the connections between a turntable and phono input on my integrated amps, or, in this case the input on the phono preamp. Now I read that I should use a low capacitance audio cable. Any advice? |
"Things they do not teach in college".
Sting: "Wrapped around my finger" |
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Re TTs’ and most other items that I feel ’suspicious’ of their grounding....
When playing something ’relatively quiet and demure’, I’ve wander behind my ’stack’ with a test lead off of a multimeter. Find a unfinished case screw, and ground it to that which I know is grounded....
Anything that improves the ’quiet’ gets linked up....#12 with spades...preferably soldered....
(Fortunately, I’ve not grown a ’spider web’ of wire to do so....there’s already enough cables ’back there’....*L*) |
Spouse received the new Dylan LP today with the digital download option....*kewl* G*
Time to lit up the Maggies for her, and engage a TT.....with some subtle sub behind them. *S* |
Wow! I’ve thought about going that route with ground wires, although I haven’t done it yet. Many moons ago, that was the only way I had to do run the ground to the receiver I had at the time. My CXA60 doesn’t have phono input. Would it be worthwhile to run a ground from the phono preamp to the CXA60, or would it somehow have a negative effect on sound?
I’m sure you both will enjoy the new Dylan LP. The only Dylan vinyl I have this time around, is his Gretest Hits from 1967 that I bought used. That was a steal! Once I played it the first time, I digitized it at 96kHz/24bit, storage is cheap. I carry my “library” in the vehicles on thumb drives as mp3 converted to 44.1kHz/ 320kbps which more than enough for me. I’ve had good experiences with used vinyl and CDs I’ve bought. I’m waiting on Evie Sands’ CD “Women in Prison.” The only place I could find it was in the UK. The price on “A” is outrageous! |
