I bought 4 subwoofers and I'm absolutely not doing a DBA! Hah!


I just received shipments of 4 subwoofer drivers and they will not be going into a distributed bass array. 

I'm replacing my left and right speaker stands with powering subwoofers with 2 subwoofer drivers each.  I call them powering because they will be powering the 2-way monitors that will sit on top.  Here's a beauty shot of the insides.

The amp has all the DSP power I could need to produce perfect speaker measurements.   I wonder if JA at Stereophile would wax poetically if I priced them high enough?? laugh

1744240613802.pngeriksquires · 2025-04-09 11:17 pm at 11:17 PM

erik_squires

@iseland 

Would it might be the FA502 you have on order 🤔 

Have that one and it’s great..

Plate amps are not on order.  They are on my dining room table. laughBut because I’m converting a 2-way passive by adding a subwoofer and amps, the amps are the FA253s.  The panel above the amp is where I’ll place 2 pairs of speaker jacks to connect to the speaker on top.

 

Does the plate amp have to be in the cabinet?

@onhwy61  - That was kind of the goal, but I guess hypothetically you could put it anywhere.  The massive reduction of separate electronic components is high on my list of features. 

@audiokinesis :

I really like your idea of using the subwoofers as speaker stands, that’s a very efficient and elegant use of available floor space.  

Thank you.

Ime in this sort of setup the imaging of the mains is improved by the use of spikes underneath the subs. 

Thank you for the suggestion.  It’s not shown in the image but the cabinets will have threaded inserts sized for IsoAcoustic Gaia II footers.   My modest space will require the cabinets be half on and half off of a rug.  Spikes are a PITA on a wooden floor and I’ve had excellent results with IsoAcoustics.  I'd rather have something I can push around without scratching the floor. :)

The only other (weird) configuration I can think of that might be worth considering is one woofer down-firing and the other front-firing.  Again you’d probably have to shift the plate amp northwards. 

My Libra soul’s requirement for symmetry would never allow this to happen.  In these dimensions, if I had the energy and money to experiment I’d probably have been well served by using a single floor firing woofer.  In the early design phase I had a choice between 1 woofer, ported or 2 sealed based on their volume requirements.  I could have done one downward firing woofer.   I’d get to ~ 20 Hz with about 84 dB /1W.  I really thought a lot about how Snell did it.  However!  Snell also had long term reliability issues with that setup AND I just don’t have the energy to play with finding the optimal height.  While I really love how the Snell A series sounded, I strongly suspect there was more to that downward firing woofer than just mass loading.  The size of the cabinet and distance to the floor probably played an enormous part in the success of that speaker.  I didn’t want to half ass it without being confident I fully understood the design parameters.  2 forward firing 10" woofers starting from the ground up, crossed at ~150 Hz.... that I understand.

At the end of the day I traded 1 ported for 2 sealed drivers, gaining 6 dB of sensitivity (90 dB/2 watts) with an expected anechoic of ~ 40 Hz.  In this room I’ll 100% take it.  I suspect the room gain and modes will have me using EQ to reduce the bass, not adding to it.  laugh but then, I have to have that perfect measurement profile for JA to review.

 

@danager 

How are you going to isolate the speakers from the subwoofers?  Are you concerned that the bass vibrations will affect the overall sound?

Well this is a problem for ANY multi-way speaker, so lets keep our concerns in proportion.  With the traditional multi-way you would have baffles between the woofer and mid, and share the sides.  That’s a lot of contact area to transmit vibration. 

One way or another I’ll use isolation under the 2-way speakers on top. The contact surface from the bottom section to the upper will be very small compared to a single monolithic 3-way.

Currently the speakers are using speaker stands from Butcher Block Acoustics.  I’ll make some final decisions about isolation when the cabinets are in.  I’m sure I can address that, the issue is more about my ear height and where I want the tweeter and mid-woofer to be in relationship.     The other real concern, which Duke brought up earlier is making sure your speakers don’t "rock" the wrong way.  That the woofers aren’t pushing the speaker back and forth causing a kind of Doppler distortion.  You may have seen me suggesting weight son small stand mount speakers to reduce this. 

Maybe also help to know that while these drivers are called "subwoofers" due to their ability to play low I’m using them more as a traditional woofer.  They’ll cross high but go deep.

 

@atmasphere 

Might not make for the most attractive cabinet though...

Exactly.   But glad you found something that works for you in shows... those rooms are killer.

@erik_squires Here's something to think about. The reason a DBA works is by breaking up standing waves. But if you don't want to have multiple subs for that, one way you could handle that is by having one woofer aimed at a nearby wall at 45 degrees, so its output bounces around the room like a cue ball.

I did a show recently where I did exactly that. So the audience was looking at the corner of the sub rather than having it face them directly. This really helped with getting full bass at the ideal listening positions.

Might not make for the most attractive cabinet though...

@erik_squires 

How are you going to isolate the speakers from the subwoofers?  Are you concerned that the bass vibrations will affect the overall sound?

 

 

@erik_squires, I should have specified that I was thinking of the woofers being side-firing (and therefore back-to-back), and now I understand that the woofer motors are too deep for that. 

I really like your idea of using the subwoofers as speaker stands, that’s a very efficient and elegant use of available floor space.  Ime in this sort of setup the imaging of the mains is improved by the use of spikes underneath the subs.  Even if you can only use one spike (like front-and-center), imo it makes a worthwhile improvement.

The only other (weird) configuration I can think of that might be worth considering is one woofer down-firing and the other front-firing.  Again you’d probably have to shift the plate amp northwards. 

Duke

Would it might be the FA502 you have on order 🤔 

Have that one and it's great..

Hi @audiokinesis  - Thanks for your feedback.

You are not the first one to suggest that.  I’m limited by two overriding priorities:

- General dimensions of the cabinet are set by current speaker footprint.

- Hypex plate amplifiers are BIG!

The combination of that, plus chosen drivers prevented side mounting or front/back woofers.  The plate amp is just too long to allow for a woofer on the same surface.  Back to back mounting on the sides was also not possible because of the narrow width I wanted to stay within and the depth of the woofer motors.

I did take the woofer motor's ability to  rock the cabinet into account and have sloped the front baffle back by 2" to reduce the amount of possible rocking.  Also, there  are 40 lb. speakers that are going to sit on top of those cabinets.  I think that with the excess bracing I should be in good shape.

Ideally though I wanted to do something similar to Snell, putting both woofers near the floor, but alas, aesthetics and limited budget for a new home have won out.

Very nice!

Two woofers per enclosure would theoretically give you the option of using a force-cancelling configuration.   Depending on the enclosure width and motor depth, you might even be able to keep the same overall shape, though you would probably need to move the plate amp north so that its isolation chamber doesn't interfere with the woofers. 

@tomcarr Yes indeed.  I've heard it happen.  Also check out the AM Acoustics room mode simulator for help with placing your speakers and listening location. 

Nice. Short piece in last month's Stereophile about subwoofer placement. 

I know my two subs sound best placed next to the two speakers.

Amazing how two subs, properly positioned, will give not just deeper bass, but also enlarged soundstage and more "air".