I am openning a shop. What equipment should I sell
Planning on opening a retail "store front" what equipment should I carry?? Should I sell at price points or sell what sounds good? How important is base response in speakers. What is the right approach??
I am in St. Louis, we actually did ok, sold 12, then Pioneer on low end, Arcam, in middle, PS Audio Plus several other things. Over all the real question is just why did we close? I had a partner, whe became less and less connected with the business, until I was doing it alone.... That can only last so long. The company was healthy enough that I pulled my investment money only out of the company, droe to the state capital and signed my interest over to my partner. Years ago, I was a CMC Stereo Store manager, after that I was doing custom speaker work, then went to work for SpeakerCraft/Marcof electronics, I later was a rep for several 12v companies, plus Sumo (at their end) Jamo, Straight Wire, PS Audio, Museatex/Meitner plus a few others. My own store was called "Sounds Right"
If this works, I'd be willing to go back into business, let me know if you need a partner............ Nevermind You have to buy all of that stuff first..... Can you get all of your inventory on consignment?
Come on guys. I want to open a shop and make money....X wife, BMW, ski trips to Aspen. No way that Speaker Craft is going to pay that bill. Audio people are to well educated. Can't make the car payment/alimony and trips to Aspen selling stuff like that. Cables and interconnects. That is where the money is. Please audiophile these readers know I am a dealer so stay away.
Cables and Interconnects. $32,500 for the first meter. The second meter is free.
Hi Weseixas, I wasn't trying to sound offensive, I guess that I felt challanged. I want to add, that we had one of our employees branch out and became fairly popular in his own right modding amps preamps and such, he is still in our area and still modding and building his own line, his name is John Hillig. Alot of people know John and his roots came from what he learned with Ed.
Hi Weseixas, I don't know what you are trying to infer, but Marcof Electronics/SpeakerCraft was in Webster Groves Mo. 63119, we also made several electronics and were fairly well known in the late 70's to early 80's. Ed Martin the owner is still one of my best friends. I'm sorry if you have confused us, I've never heard of SpeakerKraft. In our latter years we were occasionally confused with the SpeakerCraft that does home theater and in walls and such. We still have some Marcof PPA-2 moving coil Head amps, if you'd like to buy one. Good Listening , Tim
Also, I'd like to second the advice in going in funded. If I had gone into business with more money, I have no doubt that success was there. Working revenue a major key. If you have a good plan, money and are willing to branch outside of just high end audio, you will have a good chance of success, Good Listening, Tim
Tough road and absolutely not helped by our current economy, unfortunately and economy aside the few good dealers left are suffering from the evils and arrogance of the many, who for years did the naughty, naughty.
Had Lunch last week with a few who are still involved in the business (manufacturing ) and the consensus was that they are not expecting any recovery before last quarter 2011, thread lightly..
It would seem that there are very few bricks and mortar shops making money on (new) retail high end audio. As several have noted, custom HT installations are now the bread and butter for these businesses. I've been an investment baker advising businesses for most of my career and my advice in this instance would be:
"Proceed with extreme caution." Beyond that, just 2 specific thoughts.
Most small businesses do not fail because they are inherently unsustainable. Rather, they simply run out of money. Make sure that you are adequately capitalized before you jump in.
Keep your overhead under control! This would probably be the first priority, since you face an uncertain cash flow stream. Any meaningful nut could sink you.
I grew up in Albany, NY. A ton of hifi shops have come and gone over the last 2 or 3 decades. Only one has stayed.
Hippo's does things unlike most hifi shops I've seen. They actually advertise in print, radio, and TV. They carry one or two big box brands to get the average Joe's attention, like Sony and JVC. They advertise that stuff at a few bucks less than the big box stores (a Best Buy is about 5 minutes down the road).
When the average Joe walks in, they have to walk past a few McIntosh, Rotel, and Cambridge systems to get to the Sony stuff in the back. No one walks by a Mac anything without noticing it.
They don't bait and switch. They audition stuff like KEF and B&W against near equally priced Sony stuff. They show what a few more bucks will get, and what a few bucks less will get.
They do a lot of HT and stereo sales. They also do a ton of custom home and business installs. And they've embraced the iPod and DACs, rather than fight them.
They have a very knowledgable, non-snob, non-teenaged staff.
These things sound like common sense, yet how many dealers have actually done anything resembling this?
You are so right. Just sell stuff you have never heard. The reviews say it is good so it must be. Seriously I think a lot of these on line retailers must do that.
Goldeneraguy
Thank god for food stamps.......people come to listen and I go out to their car and siphon gas....
Hi Sounds real audio, I went down that path myself. In todays market this is a tough proposition. I knew Randy Patton, so I carried a couple of his products. PS, Meitner, I didn't pick up Threshold. I built my own speakers. I came from the old Marcof Electronics/SpeakerCraft, so I actually sold more of my speakers than anything else. I ended up branching into car audio, that helped, I then branched into home theater and Installations. I was working day and night, I finally got the shop up to a break even, but wasn't making any money. I took my share out of the business, signed it all over to my partner, took my name off of everything. They lasted another 18 months struggling the whole time. You have to be in the right place, carrying a reasonable mix of products and be willing to do this as a passion rather than a big income.... The overhead alone makes this a tough proposition. I believe that it is possible, but with the mix of products available, there is always someone selling a great product on the internet with no overhead and willing to make minimal margins that you can't compete with. I believe that this is still possible, but it would require a real business plan, knowing your area, knowing your competition and understanding what your customer base will be. Good Luck, Tim
Like the plumber who's house always leaks, you'll never listen to audio for pleasure again. Why would you want to do that to yourself? But seriously, best of luck if you do decide to do this.
Well its its been 5 years since the original question and SOUNDS REAL AUDIO is still in business. It appears that the equipment sold and the marketing plan has worked. If SOUNDS REAL AUDIO has made it this far,in this economy my hats off to them.
A lot of people have gone bankrupt setting up shops and selling their ''favorite brand'' or gizmo they were passionate about. Trouble is, there is often a large gap (and resulting small market) between what the business owner likes as a result of personnal taste, and what his client's real needs and purchase criteria are. And this goes for any type of business, and mainly for high-end items of any type: photography, watches, boats...and high-end audio. The ''higher-end'' the product is, the smaller the resulting market is, and consequently the bigger the chances are that the real purchase decisions have to do with intangibles (like exclusivity, or prestige, or any number of things) instead of mainly product or product performance. Do you really think that people spending 8K thousand bucks on a Rolex ''self winding'' mechanical watch spend all this money for a watch to keep accurate time? Hell, the thing has a variation of + or - 6 seconds a day, and it still says ''superlative chronometer'' on it's dial - while a $ 600.00 Tag Huer will be INFINITELY more accurate, just as a $60.00 Timex for that matter.
There is nothing wrong with selling things you are passionate about. But success will only come if you are willing to sell products that ARE IN DEMAND regardless of the fact that you like them or not. It is the difference between a hobby, where you can indulge in only the things that you are passionate about, and a business, where you have to let go part of that passion in order to put butter on the table.
This is why I feel that extremely passionate people about high-end audio (minus a few exceptions) will do poorly as audio-business owners.
These days, I don't see anyone that is not already a well-established dealer making money on audio. It's home theater, custom installation, distributed music/video, Crestron (or the like) control system and even automobile audio that makes money. Audio is often a dealer's passion, but rarely the bread-winner.
Still, you would need some lines of audio gear. I think a good anchor middle line of electronics is important (e.g., Arcam, Creek, NAD, Marantz). Having a line that covers everything and has a fanatic core customer base may also be a good idea (e.g., Linn, Naim, Audionote).
I also think some good speaker lines are key. With speakers, you can offer your customer real service (setup, auditions, etc) as a reason for shopping with you and there is less internet competition for new speakers. Some good basic lines include Vandersteen, Thiel, JM Labs, B&W, Spendor and Sonus Faber (note, I don't necessarily personally like the sound of all of these lines, but they do represent good value and/or good dealer support).
The stuff I personally like will never be best sellers, but, if you could support a few lines like these, it would be nice: Art Audio, Audionote (u.k), Emotive Audio, Basis, DeVore, Edgarhorn, Gradient and JM Reynard. A few budget lines I have heard that offered promising sound include: Rogue (US tube electronics manufacturer),Consonance and Cayin (Chinese).
A quick question: What reasons to you see for moving from a home based business to a storefront retail store? Expansion? Privacy? More access to selling different brands?
I know selling out of your home is not ideal and very common. However, with the current explosion of the Internet and the shift of the High End market to Internet sales (Underwood Hifi, Music Direct etc.) and factory direct (Welborne, Fi, Tyler, even Sophia Electric and Cain sell direct), it will become increasingly difficult to keep running a storefront business. Interestingly some of the Internet retailers (e.g. Acoustic Sounds) started out as home businesses. Just a thought...
If you go ahead for a store front business, I would follow Trelja's advise:
As to which brands you carry, I would rely on your own intuition - sonically, economically, and relationshipwise. It seems obvious, but selling a brand you don't believe in will not allow you to put your full energy into the endeavor.
Hopefully you will not get stuck in selling brand you don't like, as Howard (Boa2) cautions.
No one will stand up and honestly say what will work well together. Fear of other manufactures getting mad.
This is exactly why I suggested to you in private to stick with the arrangement that you currently have. Moving from your home to a storefront is literally a private to public transition, and suddenly the rules of the game shift from selling what you believe in to hawking what the public demands. Several dealers have told me they have dropped their favorite lines because they did not sell well, and they end up putting on their best sales face for a product line that in their heart is not as good. Why give up a passion for a job?
Here is an interesting view at audio asylum. www.audioasylum.com/forums/cri... Just one of the major problems in the industry. No one will stand up and honestly say what will work well together. Fear of other manufactures getting mad. Check out the last piece of advice from John. Last sentence. How true that is
To make a stand is one thing.To honestly say is another.The fear of the reviewers and manufacturers is not getting mad at the competition or reviewers.They have run out of magic spells and snake oil.You have been in this hobby with such an intention to learn ,grow and better your listening experience .They have not kept up to you.They don't know what else to do.Take the movie industry,or TV...real life crap.Rocky 6 etc..remakes of your past favorites.Cover songs and groupes.Nobody creates anymore.We can only modify .Hifi is in trouble .Ipod ...as much as I hate them is the game today.
Here is an interesting view at audio asylum. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/critics/messages/14934.html Just one of the major problems in the industry. No one will stand up and honestly say what will work well together. Fear of other manufactures getting mad. Check out the last piece of advice from John. Last sentence. How true that is.
It may not be so much as what to sell as opposed to what you can get. I co own a small business and many things come up that are not planned. What lines do you want to carry ?? and are there stores near you that carry these lines ? if so you probably won't get them. It is about cash flow,low overhead and profit, you have to make a profit to stay in business, it sounds obvious but many people who go into business forget that. What about money, how much are you planning to start with, are you in a state that charges sales tax, if you are and dont make they timely payments, they will find you.
And what about employees, watch out they can make you money but they can cost you money, very quickly too.
And what about marketing, where are you ? are you surrounded by wal marts,dunkin donuts and tatoo parlors? if so probably not good. And what do you think you need to sell in a month to stay open ? my guess is if it is you and another person working there around 35-40k a month in sales.
Sounds Real, I guess the real question is whether you are independently wealthy, or whether you intend to make a living from this enterprise. A friend of mine who is a dealer has stopped carrying a well-known, highly-regarded speaker line because he just can't move the product. Arguably, this line is "better" than competing products he also carries, but because of the expense and the lack of topical reviews, his customer base just isn't interested. He LOVES the product but loyalty to his bottom line means there is no space on the showroom floor for those speakers. Synergy, for him, involves the sound of a cash register ringing... I can tell you that, as a customer, the retailers that interest me the most are those that do carry lines I don't normally find in most shops; where the in-house systems are not only well-thought-out, but sound outstanding. Those are the dealers that I not only shop at, they're the dealers where I like to hang out.
Trelja Thanks for that thoughtful response. You are correct the magic is in the midrange. I favor a "spot on" tonal quality as well. Don't ask me to define it, you just know it when you hear it. Amazing how many speakers, even expensive brand names miss the mark on both counts.
Well, going against the tide, as is my pattern, I first want to congratulate you for this thread, Sounds_real_audio. And, also to thank you.
I believe it is an excellent step you are taking. I have little insight into you beyond what I have seen here. But, I can say, any dealer who has the openmindedness to approach the audio public with this type of query is the kind of dealer I wish to do business with. In my opinion, one lesson many a dealer would do well to learn is that there is a reason we were given two ears, yet only one mouth. Listening is a far more important skill than most realize.
Beyond that, a person who has the courage to step forward and pursue his dream deserves my admiration. Most of the people I meet are not happy in what they do for a living. We can all relate to trying to do what they love for work. It is to be congratulated, not denigrated.
By opening yourself up, and seeing what the audio world WANTS to purchase, you give yourself a better chance of meeting those needs. And, a business who serves its customers has a far greater opportunity for success than one which does not.
For what it's worth, I can tell you that the dealer has much leeway in the brands they carry. Most high end manufacturers wish to expand their dealer network, so you are mostly in the driver's seat. For the most part, you can choose the brands you carry, as opposed to they choosing you.
As to which you carry, I would rely on your own intuition - sonically, economically, and relationshipwise. It seems obvious, but selling a brand you don't believe in will not allow you to put your full energy into the endeavor. There is a lot of good gear produced by bad companies, and a lot of bad gear produces by good companies. It takes time to develop the relationship, but finding good gear from good companies should be your end goal. What I can say beyond that is to also follow the market on some level. Levinson and Krell made a lot of sense in 1988. Solid state muscle was the rule of the day, and demanding speakers dictated that. The pendulum has swung to the opposite pole over the past decade, and it seems lower power tube and boutique gear is in vogue. Still, keeping somewhat of an eye as to what lies ahead will prevent you from falling behind the trends. Finally, the setups you put together should be synergistic and sonically fufilling. Disappointment during the audition has proven to me to lose a dealer any opportunity for business. Good sound makes people happy, whether the bass is powerful or not. Since 85% of the music resides in the midrange, if that isn't very good, the chances of painting a good picture seem poor.
We all have our horror stories about nose in the air dealers who try to talk to us as if they know all and we know nothing. Should we not welcome a person who seems to be cut from a different cloth? Hey, this is an opportunity to cultivate the kind of dealership most of us want to have in this field. Let's not squander that. Little is gained by cheap shots in this instance.
But seriously would you be more apt to buy brands that advertise a lot in the TAS and Stereophile?
Advertizing was never really important (just can't stand ads in general). But I used to orient myself using Stereophile and TAS reviews. These days I prefer user comments and more independent reviewers, that had experience with similar equipment as I have. As Tvad mentiones, a large fraction of consumers will go for Stereophile and TAS recommendations, the other half will go for looks, design, brand names or just price. And the rest will buy factory direct...
Have you ever purchased a product without reading a good review somewhere?
Somehow reviews have become less important. But I never bought something without good user comments or hearing it for a longer time in my own place.
Well you guys sure did offer lots of encouragement. Well maybe not so much, think I will finish my bottle of sleeping pills tonight, there are only 48 left. But seriously would you be more apt to buy brands that advertise a lot in the TAS and Stereophile? Have you ever purchased a product without reading a good review somewhere?
Best stuff you can find at most price points. Stay away from super, super high end and have some eclectic things. Sell at least 2 super well known lines, Klipsch and Paradigm, to get people in who will be blown away by things they have never seen if not into audio, ie Magnepan and Vandersteen.
^^^^ I agree size does matter, no doubt. After all how can any manufacturer provide realistic output from a "small speaker" none that I have ever listened to have. But then I compare speakers to actual events that I have had the chance to listen and hear for myself- each persons hearing is different from the next, so w/o a doubt varity is a must. H/T is also a prereq in todays audio shop, even the good ones.
I don't think he meant 'bass' when writing 'base'. I think he meant 'basic'. And, yes, a basic response in speakers is important, in fact, the better the response the more likely they are to go home with a customer. Just be sure to carry friendly speakers that are litter trained, and don't be upset when you sell more little monitors than big floorstanders. Seems most people want young ones when they're still so cute. Plus you can really influence their personality for when they grow up and...uh, wait a minute. What were we talking about here?
With a shop the services you provide the consumer are your most important selling point. I would recommend offering HT installation and home automation in addition to 2-channel retail; you'll reach more customers, and speaking from experience I can tell you that you make more money on services than retail sales provided you have steady business and aren't paying a professional installer to just sit around the shop four out of five days a week. As far as brands go, just try to find something reliable and decent that won't boomerang back to you. You need well known and solid performing "bread and butter" products that will draw in non-audiophiles (B&W, Pioneer Elite, Bose, etc) as well as exotic, specialty items exclusive to your store (Plinius, Cain & Cain, and so on). In my experience it's all about striking the proper balance in product offerings/price points and providing the customer with service exclusive to your business while doing so.
I always liked your (and other dealer's) approach to sell out of your home: Save the expensive rent and some of the risk having to recover from the first slow months of business. There's a reason I came to you to listen to the Abbys. More relaxed atmosphere, no buying pressure, BYOA (Bring Your Own Amp), etc.
As for a real store front: I would look for a neighborhood where people should be interested in getting into Hifi. Know your customer base. Denver seems great for Hifi these days, but is seems quite competitive. I always thought it would help to not sell the standard equipment. Something that catches a customer's eye when he walks in, i.e. more style than just showing off black boxes with silver faceplates and blue lights: The Abbys should work well there. So far I have not met anyone who is not impressed with them.
Good luck with a store front business if you decide to go that way.
Audio Refinement w/o a doubt. Very good performance for the money. I would Also carry some of the mid fi stuff available. Mid fi such as Rotel, Adcom and the like. While they may not be in the same ranage as krell, YBA, AR, and the like they are better then most Mac stuff I have listened to, and they cost far less.
Bang for the buck, keep this in mind and you will suceed, do other wise and you may well fail in your endevour. After all, 5 sales of mid fi a day, to happy customers, beat the heck out of 1 sale a month of hi end.
All the high end guys around here are doing HT or custom install to pay the bills. Very little floor space for 2 channel for the guys that still have showrooms. Three of the five stores in my area closed their showrooms and just to custom install now.
If you want to make real money, stick the the Pyramid Principle. "There are more people with money to spend on the lower end of the price scale, than at the top."
I'm sure you've done some research and know what the surrounding stores offer. Next, BE VISIBLE. Don't rent a store at a cheap rent in an out of the way location. You can not spend enough money on advertising if people don't see you.
Next, offer some high end products to test the waters. There's bigger margins here. If it works, increase the line. Ask the manufacturers to work Co-Op advertising deals with you. Some will. Some won't. But either way, you must convince them why they should.
Lastly, make your war chest has a heavy advertising budget. You need to advertise heavy in the beginning to get your name out. Do quickie 10 second radio spots with programming geared to your target market. If your selling ipods... that is a way different radio station. Figure at least a modest $10,000 in media advertising in the first 6-8 months, minimum, if you want to do it right. Don't take short cuts. Hire quality people. And finally, be honest with your customers and yourself. Good luck! :)
Wow! If you are asking this question you need to rethink your plan to open a store. Be prepared to lose your investment. It is a tough business even for those with grat passion and knowledge. Good luck.
dont get too stuck on the msrp,the guys who are pulling down the serious cash are the ones who throw the msrp out the window & base profits on volume as oposed to treating every customer like the next big whale.
if you give a guy a deal good enough when he decides to upgrade he can put a few bucks in his pocket instead of loosing a fat wad that same guy will be back .
yes bass response is important & try to carry speakers that offer great bass,not audiophile bass but real chest pounding bass like maybee vmps speakers or somthing along them lines where big buck speakers dont require a sub to give up some real bass.
if it were me i would try to carry brands that are offer ht as well as 2 channel & that are selling like hot cakes right now like krell,mcintosh,pass ect,these brands offer a massive established customer base & also are priced so high that there is a huge amount of room between your price & the msrp :)
somebody above mentioned selling used gear,bad move,take all trade ins right to the internet & get them off your sales floor & the same goes with any consignment gear,straight to the internet.
from what i know & see in high end audio sales the guys who try selling by the book dissapear quickly & the guys who sell with loopholes build new show rooms & sell the most gear.
I would tend to agree with those who have posted questioning why the OP has asked us if he is the one who plans to enter into business......
If this posting is legit, ..My suggestion is the Sell CUSTOMER SERVICE, ...this is completely lacking in almost every segement of business this day....where I live, the norm is poor customer service, whether it be at the dollar store or at the Ferrari dealership, across the board. I have expericned in the past year, 10% of the places I have frequented to have expectional customer service and 90% to be unacceptable.
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