Sounds like you are at a crossroads. I have owned Pass amps for 40 years… typically of higher wattage… but they have the same character. I have also own Audio Research equipment Preamp / Phonostage. I cannot address your question directly… but my ARC amp sounds better at low volume than my Pass amp… but it would be a real stretch to have this be applicable to your situation.
I hold Pass in really high regard… but about ten years ago I began moving closer to all ARC gear. The outcome has been incredible. While my amp is of lower power my system is sooo much more musical! When I got to all ARC my system took on a real musicality my system never had. BTW, I am using a ARC Ref CD9se for DAC… I compared with a $22K Berkeley Alpha and I thought the ARC sounded better. Anyway after forty five years of solid state I moved to a ARC tube amp and will definitely not be moving back. My system sounds great at low volumes.
You can see my system by clicking on my ID… noticed a number of similarities. |
Now this is a timely post. Last Friday I went on a tour of the ARC facitlity
in Minneapolis hosted by the gentlemanly Dave Gordon. If you see a
Bat logo on a reserved parking spot and a car is parked in it you will
know if the Commissioner is in or not.
FYI Friday is a good day to request for a tour as they are mostly all
on 4 day 10hr work week. ARC was taken private 3 years back
and for this reason I was motivated to learn more as comglomerates
tend to lose product value in my experience.
The facility is spotless and very well organized. The repair room-manned by two techs- was model of organization and that alone surprised me.
We were shown their new I-50 Integrated which ships next month.
I predict ARC will be on a fast track to even greater success soon.
I only listen at levels of 55db to 69db. So low level performance means
a lot to me. When you ask most manufacturers what factors in a speaker
or amp's build improve low level sound I seldom hear a straight forward reply.
Currently I use a Pass INT25 with Tannoys rated at 94 Sensitivity at 4 ohms. I think it does a very good job at low levels. Prior to that I used
a Cary 120 Tube Amp which provided excellent musicality but did present all the detail the Pass does. Nelson Pass believes his Amps are more "Tubey" than other SS amps. Now after seeing the new ARC 50 INT I am sorely tempted to try tubes again. Auto-Biasing and a built in clock will simplify maintenance. The Pass gear is bullet proof and musical. Both are pricey.
Does anyone have experience comparing the low level performance of
Solid State vs Tubes?
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No experience with X150.5, but low level listening with XA60.5’s we’re quite good.
on a related note… I tried PrimaLuna Evo400 pre with the XA60.5’s and it just didn’t work well… poor synergy |
Somewhat similar to @audiojan I have a Evo400 pre that I tried with a Pass 150.8 and didn't really like it. I would not use it for low level listening to say the least. My typical volume maxes out at 80 db peaks and it sounded slow, unemotional and non-dynamic. Maybe it needed higher volume levels to bring out the best but I don't listen that way. Ayre amps have a very black background that I find works perfectly for lower levels. It's hard to explain but it's different from anything I've heard. I use an older Ayre V-5xe with the Evo400 and am currently listening at about 53.3 db (just tested using white noise and not very accurate iPhone NIOSH app) and miss very little of the music. |
@ghdprentice Superlative set up man! 🤯
I appreciate all the responses, to be clear this is basically just a matter of opportunity. I really love the D400MKII. If I had the room, I’d grab the Pass and keep the ARC. I highly doubt the Pass would disappoint me at any level but at the same time I don’t think it would be a jaw dropping upgrade, which is why I’m hesitant. My intentions have been to upgrade the preamp next…but this Pass came alone and grabbed my attention. 🤷🏼♂️ |
Just speculation as I've never tried it but the Pass with a good solid state pre or less tubey pre maybe could do it for you. A Florida Pass dealer I know suggests VTL pre with Pass amps. They can be had used at pretty good prices. He pairs those with Wilson speakers if that helps at all. |
@chorus
i can characterize the difference between the Pass x350 and ARC Ref 160s. The difference is profound. Both have house sounds of their respective companies.
The most obvious difference is in slam and detail. The Pass amp has notably more slam and the details are more up front and highlighted. Before you have a real positive reaction to that… it is not a complement. The Audio Research has much better bass… bass doesn’t sound as it if of a narrow frequency… but a full rich wide band rendition of bass… sounding much more realistic like would be heard in and acoustic concert. It hits your chest as opposed to being a quick slap. The treble has a very different character as well, the details are all there if you listen, but they don’t unnaturally stick out.. the brass of cymbals more like brass and less undifferentiated treble. If you go to an acoustic concert… you hear the same thing. But then put on some loud electronic music like Yelo and the bass and detail within the bass and the layer out wide frequency response is incredible with the Audio Research tube amp. I had planned on switching my Pass x350 back and forth with the ARC… but never did… there was no reason. Later I found out the ARC amp I was auditioning was not broken in… it sounded better and better over time. Overall musicality was far far better with the ARC tube amp… it sucks you into the music quickly… the Pass sucks you in to listen to all the details and contrasts of sounds. The Pass exceeds at high contrast (using a visual comparison), the ARC a higher resolution low contrast.
They are both very quiet amps. The Pass XA series sound more like the ARC… but not nearly as far along the continuum as the ARC.
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I had gotten interrupted in my post and due to the time limit could not edit or complete it.
I had failed to address the midrange directly. The ARC amp has midrange bloom where instead of a good solid rendition of colors with the Pass the whole spectrum is laid out in rich warm colors. This in part is why the Pass amp has so much slam… it is very fast and without such a well fleshed out midrange highlights the fast rise in bass and really slaps you, as if nothing else was there. Voices are rich and pure on the ARC.
Back to perspective. These are two great series of amps the Pass x series and ARC tube. The Pass XA series is definitely closer to the tube sound, but not all the way there. There are people attracted to easily hearing the drummers foot slapping the pedal or highlight the venue and mastering techniques, or need massive power and the solid state amps like the Pass x series are an outstanding choice. But for great rhythm and pace… one of the most important drivers of emotional connection and musicality tube amps / components tend to get this better.
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Having the owned the 150.5 and currently 250.5. I would suggest going with the 250.5 it's far better at all volumes.
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I agree with above post.i had the pass in my room for about a year and moved to the 250.5....the 150.5 is just ok |
Pass Labs is a nice warm sounding amp
just in my opinion not a great match with Proacs the lower input impedance will load down your preamp try a smaller simpler design from ARC .Proac and ARC are a great match or keep your D400 and get a RefARC pre I wanted to keep out of this but there was too many guys just saying how great things are without understanding your true question of Proac/ARC best, JohnnyR |
@audioconnection , when you said “the lower input impedance will load down your preamp” did you mean amplifier’s low input impedance?
I’m in the market for a class A amp and considering the Pass stuff, hence the question. |
Pass Labs amps are exceptional having owned a number of them for forty years. But I would not call the x series warm… they are not cold or analytical. I have nothing but praise for them. if fed a warm signal you will get warm output. The XA series are a bit warmer. |
Hasmarto,
yes the pass amp will load down your tube pre amp
like I said .
what part of my statement don’t you understand.?
try to listen to your ARC amp. With an ARC Ref level Pre amp
and you should be in great shape
JohnyR
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@audioconnection , I don’t have a ARC amp, and never will, I’m looking for class A Pass amp, and the input impedance is 50/100 Kohms, SE/Balanced, so kinda thought you’re implying that their (Pass) input impedance is on the lower side, wanted to clarify the issue.
No need to be defensive here, I’m not your enemy, just read carefully, and I’m not the OP.
Have a good day. |
