I have 3 RELs bought "previously owned" which were manufactured a while back ("Q" series) and cost around 200 bucks each. Hard to beat and hardly "overblown" especially relative to comments like Millercarbonfootprint's bloviating about his gear...a Swarm system certainly is a good idea but many don't have room for it or can afford it, and used RELs are easily obtainable...and the signal comes from the power amp, a great idea. Do the research and ignore absolutes from the unfortunately biased...you will see...

It's nothing to do with REL, and all REL does with stuff like this is reinforce the perception of being first and foremost aggressive marketing driven. 

The pertinent question is how does really good deep bass reinforce the perception of dimensionality and space?

The answer is by believably recreating not only the sound but the feeling of being in a large space. Very low frequency bass waves are very long, 40 to 50 feet or more. Much larger than any normal room. Normally such low frequencies are only experienced in large or open spaces. So when we hear and feel them we naturally feel we are in a large space.

This has the effect of making room walls disappear, creating a feeling of envelopment, of being in the original acoustic space and not just having it up there somewhere in front of us.

Because this feeling of being an enlarged space extends off in all directions it creates a feeling of a larger space in front and to the sides as well. No wonder a recent visitor who has been here a few times now describes the sound as "cavernous". He's not talking about an echo. He's talking about a vast black space. This is where a lot of the dimensionality comes from.

Nothing wrong with REL, other than they are overblown. However good one or two REL are, any four decent subs will do this a whole lot better. Probably for less. That is the problem with the REL hype. Any four. Do a search. You will see.

Thank you and I'll try to keep up. I wonder if REL is hiring.. LOL I did post a picture of the dog and the rabbit..

I have a pair of 16cf 1.5 thick 5 foot tall subs just waiting. I think 2 21" high excursion subs and 4 18" passive radiators will work. Use a 12K Behringer per enclosure.

I have a feeling they will have to be on inner tubes or air bags.

I have a chamber fellas. When YOU are loaded in the slot.. 4 foot slot 3 foot wide with 4 15" HE subs.. You will stop breathing. It's how I use to discipline fowl children and difficult co workers. I'd kidnap them and then strap them in the chamber for 2 hours. Then return what's left to police station. Little smart mouth ba$tards. :-)

Couple of months of mood elevators and speaking to a therapist, they are as good as new AND they learn about manners.. :-)

Regards

@oldhvymec 

You're incorrigible!! Kinda like all us old farts. I guess that's  why I like ya

I expect for most audiophiles, Paradigm subs with built in room correction would end up being superior solutions to most competitors. Even without it they would be a solid choice.

Any good sub should add what normally exists in live settings...that's the thing. Low frequencies are around in the real world, it's just that few speakers can reproduce the lows without a sub. I use 2 older RELs with a SEP (main system...another REL in my TV rig) amp and they work extremely well, are built like a tank, and are perfectly designed for their purpose...no DSP needed as I simply adjust them when it’s (rarely) called for. Not sure what the above rant is about, but hey...folks gotta rant!

Well OP I fixed you right up, no need to post and then get told to feed the chickens. I suppose you know when to feed my chickens. BUT it would be better if you learned that REL is the issue not my chickens, rabbits , goats or posting.

My point is pretty simple REL doesn’t know what they are doing. Really no need to explain why.. They just don’t.. The difference is I NEVER built speakers to make money only to learn from and fund my personal speaker projects.

BUT I have fixed REL subs. It’s not that hard and less so with a stack. You only have to add the slot to the bottom cabinet.. I did 2 sets, each with 3 per stack, all at 90 degrees from the one below in the stack. The directions those slots face make a difference just like the main drivers direction and location. I used 1.5" butcher block for the butt plate and spring loaded casters for the V control

Rel is not a bad sub it is a bad idea that THEY refuse to learn about. Vibration or destructive harmonics is not your friend.. And how much more does it cost to enclose the bottom or move the passive radiator to the side or remove it all together and have no port.

That plate they use is different too. DSP? PEQ, GEQ, mic input, PC interface, XLR all the stuff a Parts Express plate amp has REL doesn’t.. Go figure.

I know what I know.. Boom Boom in the Room Room.. No shake, rattle, and roll at my digs. Neighbors either for that matter. :-)

BTW "REL subs are NOT DESIGNED TO DECOUPLE", That is my point they ARE NOT DESIGNED at ALL. They are copies from the 1970s and they use a pretty cheep plate amp to boot. Nice paint though. Lipstick anyone? Bigger :-)

Regards

@riley804

" But I’ve often wondered how my Rel subs make such an improvement to the main speakers."

doesnt he say how in the video ?

what was the point of starting a post if the answer is mentioned in the video

OK, So I got this in my messages from the above. Can someone tell him what the function of this board is?

I’ve been here 20 yrs now and have never had anyone email me something like this. Funny thing is , he too has been here 20 yrs and doesn’t seem to understand why it exists. As someone said earlier, this place has gone downhill quickly. I could understand this from a newbie. I’ve learned to expect most anything. Oh well. Let the games continue

Seems like every thread becomes contentious anymore. If you don' like the word "Rel": in the title, then instead of seeing red and getting you panties in a wad why not look at it this way

How does a REL subwoofer add dimensionality and depth to a sound system?

The video is put out by REL. Do you REALLY expect them NOT to put their name on it?

I get it. You like the flavor of the month. It's Rythmik now. It was SVS previous. Before that Rel. And as has been pointed out, when I bought my 1st REL neither of these brands were in existence. The point that I got out of watching this video is that the bass itself is the very thing that makes the dimensionality and  depth. So IF that is the case then the bass of the Rythmik & SVS are also instrumental in this task

@oldhvymec I understand that you are knowledgabe. but how many times do you need to hear that the REL subs are NOT DESIGNED TO DECOUPLE NOW DON'T THOSE CHICKENS NEED TO BE FED? And LET THE DOG CHASE THAT RABBIT FOR A WHILE. hE NEED THE EXERCISE.(sorry. Didn't mean to holler...stupid caps lock)

Unless you are using a sub array, the settings on the back of subwoofer, even a basic EQ function, is in my mind, while not worthless, not that far off.

IF you are going to go the sub route, please invest in a microphone and learning something like REW. For the most part, you are wasting your money if you don't.

If you are an analog "purist" let it go. Sub bass management is best done with DSP. Your hearing acuity is low, and speaker distortion high at bass frequencies. Nothing an ADC / DSP adds to the system is going to impact the SQ, other than in a positive way.

If you go the way of @oldhvymec , treating the room significantly, then there is less need for EQ/DSP, but it can still get you that last bit of tuning. I have both. DSP gives you more flexibility with placement.

I agree with hilde45. I went with JL Fathoms over Rel. They offer much more flexibility in set up. They have full adjustable phase to adjust for proper placement. They also have built-in room correction via eq. Another point for me was that they are built in USA which makes service easier if it is needed for me. 

The whole high level input is over rated imo too. There are also more than a get folks that have damaged amps by not having the high level connected properly. 

How does a REL subwoofer add dimensionality and depth to a sound system?

Wow, the OP’s original question was pretty quickly forgotten. I hope this does not turn out to be a thread for REL haters and owners, but some seem itchin’ for a fight.

I’m a bit like @hilde45 on subs these days. When I bought my Britannia B1 and Storm III it was years ago and most of these new subs either did not exist or were not known by anyone. REL was one of the most musical subs offered, period. My B1 with my mains was fantastic and tight, running very low bass only.

That said, the most recent three subs I bought were two SBS SB-2000s and one SB-3000 and all three sealed subs are now in my audio room. The B1 went into the home theater (with an old DefTech PF1500) and the Storm III audibly lights up the 14x18 ft TV room now.

I believe in the DBA concept now, but feel that poster missed the OP’s question as well, even though good points were made on why DBA works well. As for the rest, why not start an “REL sucks” thread and have your own fun.   :-)  

I love my REL. That said, when I wanted to get additional subs, I went with Rythmik. Why? REL is limited in the controls it offers to completely dial it in. For example, the phase is either 0 or 180; Rythmiks have a phase dial which can range in between 0 and 180. There are also a number of other features on a Rythmik —not least, their servo approach in the sub design — which you can read about, here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE_features.html

Here’s a photo of the back of my two Rythmiks. I’m not saying that other subs don’t have this, only that this is why I chose Rythmik over additional REL’s.

I will continue to enjoy my REL in conjunction with the Rythmiks. But I have learned how hard it is to make bass work in my room, and the lack of flexiblity on the REL sets them below my Rythmiks. Phase has been my key to making everything work perfectly in 0-300hz.

Why are REL’s so often given credit for providing the sound quality improvement to a system that all good subs provide, as if there are two classes of subs: REL’s, and all others? REL’s are not that unique, there ARE other subs that are great at reproducing music, Rythmik for one.

I’m tempted to also dispel the myth that a high-level input on a sub is superior to a line-level one. I’m very aware of the rationale given for doing so, but why on Earth would you want to add the distortion added to the signal by the output transformer(s) of a tube amp to the signal fed the sub amp? There is a reason OTL amps are known for their outstanding reproduction of bass.

Brian Ding offers two Rythmik plate amps which provide both high-level and live-level inputs (another myth is that REL is unique in proving high-level inputs on their subs), but prefers and recommends using line-level for best sound quality. His XLR amps forfeit the high-level input to make room for XLR connections.

If you have multiple well placed subs, usually it takes your what is likely pretty uneven bass response from the mains and evens it out. Limiting woofer excursion on the mains can also significant reduce their distortion.

I'm no expert but I do have two RELs and my 'selling' demo was listening to 'Fields of Gold' by Eva Cassidy with the sales guy gone and me turning it on and off. There is no bass on the track, per se, but with a good REL engaged the sense of the recording space was night and day. It's a demo you can recreate at home.

I think a good sub-bass system can offer that ability to play bass so deep as to give cues to a recording space is way cool. Just my guess though.