How come there is no thread on the RealityCheck?

All I can say is that this has been my experience. Unlike what Stanhifi suggests I have nothing to gain in this other than to express my enthusiasm. I will also say that with the exception of Tvad, many on AA share this opinion. As I first questioned in this thread, why no discussion on Audiogon. Is it because Stanhifi is not allowed to post there?

>>why no discussion on Audiogon. Is it because Stanhifi is not allowed to post there?<<

I am posting here. Are you on the same planet as the rest of us?

>>I have nothing to gain in this other than to express my enthusiasm<<

Enthusiasm and hyperbole are quite different. I think you're comments far exceed enthusiasm. They border on endorsement and IMO are subject to both criticism and skepticism.

With regard to prior post, please forgive the poor grammar. "You're comments" should be "your comments". Everything else is correct.

Thank you to all.

" I think you're (sic) comments far exceed enthusiasm. They border on endorsement and IMO are subject to both criticism and skepticism." I don't think your comment are either criticism or skepticism; they lack any evidence and represent mere poisoned cynicism.

One needs only to read YOUR posts to make MY point. That is succinctly evident and indisputable by any rationale person. Thank you and very nice try.

for such discussions I miss Sean.

Everyone on these forums walks the line between enthusiasm and endorsement.

Unless someone is proven to be selling, or having received the product(s)in question for free or at some special accomodation pricing, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, that they're excited about what they hear, and ask questions to qualify the improvements they're reporting.

Attacking without first hand knowledge of the product's performance, IMO, should also be subject to both criticism and skepticism.

Exactly what is meant by those who use "endorsement" in this context? Is it that some people think Tbg (or anyone who is very enthusiastic about something)is making money off the product? If so, I imagine it might help others as well, if this was stated more clearly and explicitly. If the term means something else to others who use it, I would genuinely like to know what is meant.

FWIW, I value the differences of opinion that I read here. When posts are nasty and sarcastic I find them less credible.

Tbg claims this product is "one (of) the greatest improvements in audio in 40 years". He's being disingenuous to think an over the top claims such as that won't be met with skepticism.

Does anybody know if this process works on computer files (WAV or AIFF) or does it only work on a physical CD?

Onhwy61 makes a great point. If you're going to throw out the fact that this escalates RB to LP or SACD quality or better. Then it's going to be a little hard to beleive. The review of it even mentioned that it brings out more tape noise, etc.

It's a very bold claim. Now it has to live up to it, and I'm not convinced at this point. We'll see when the dust settles.

Onhwy61, I do believe this, but I did add that it was my opinion.

It only works in copying a cd to a cd. VRS reports that they heard a clear difference between the original and RC copy I sent when playing them on a player. When they were both put on a hard drive, however, they heard no difference. I find this curious, but really do not fully understand why what is on a hard drive differs from what a player reads.

I guess if you were to burn a cd from a WAV and then reburn it on the RC, you might hear an improvement.

Onhwy61 - I was not sure why you used the word "claim", so I looked at the original post. I don't see the word there. My opinion is that the weather is nice where I live today. Obviously someone with different priorities might have a different opinion. If I "claimed" that it WAS a nice day, despite what the other person thought or felt, I can see why that person might be upset with me. In addition, I might think something to be one of the best 5 improvements. Another might consider something to be one of the best 500. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic or condescending. I just don't really see your point.

Maybe the engineer of this product will design an ATM machine that returns more money than deposited. Same principle isn't it?

Wc65mustang, I think your analogy is wrong--it would be like handing in old dirty money and get crisp clean dollars back, with that 'new money' smell.

My vote goes for that Clever Lil clock, That has to be the best tweak in 40 years. Something about that orange dot. Just imagine what a clever Lil Mickey Mouse stop watch could do.

Oneprof,

But in the end the "clean money" would be worth the same as the dirty money.

So is it as good as SACD - vinyl? If so, this should be revolutionary, but so far it's really not. Is it just that people don't know, or is it overhyped?

>>is it overhyped?<<
Robm321
Please read posts from other threads by the initiator of this one regarding other products and it will be quite evident. Have fun.

Once upon a time there was the Tice Clock...

I guess I'll try one more time to get some clarification from a poster. Robm321: what do you mean by "overhyped"? That it doesn't meet your expectations (have you heard the results from an R Check copy? If not, I also don't understand "...so far it's really not"), everyone's expectations, the majority's? I expect a relatively small number have this duplicator at this point (by the way, I don't have one). I'm personally not going to make a decision about getting one until I have more input. And, if I DO get one (or have an opportunity to compare several originals and CD-Rs by others on my system), THEN I will offer my opinion about its merits. I'm realizing the main theme of my questions and posts recently has to do with opinions offered without any experience. I simply do not understand it. As for the fact that someone INITIATES a very positive comment about a product, therefore then making that product "overhyped": I don't think we'd get very far in learning about good new products if no one started such threads. Tbg obviously listens to a LOT of new products before others do, so it makes sense to me (and it seems like a gift) that he would initiate a post when he excited about something.

For you doubters, why don't you simply order a unit from George, and listen with your own ears? I'm sure George would happily refund your money if after actually LISTENING to the unit, you still have the same pessamistic point-of-view.

Ah, I see now. Guess I'll keep my TT and SACD player ;)

No disrespect to the inventor of this product. I think he should be commended for coming up with a way to better redbook.

Clio09, once upon a time there was the LP record.

The Tice Clock was a worthless copy of the EAU-1 out of Iowa.

>>he would initiate a post when he excited about something<<

Getting excited and calling something one of the most significant advancements in 40 years (or whatever the precise wording happens to be) is simply disingenouos. A clear thinking, rationale poster would set aside the "excitement" and be much more judicious in the choice of words. Unfortunately, this is not the first instance. For that very reason a clear thinking and rational reader will take his posts with trepidation and uncertainty.

Tbg,

While opinion on the sonic quality of an LP record can be debated with each side having valid points, the LP record is still today a viable medium for music reproduction. Yes at one time it was a revolutionary concept, but over the years it has more than justified it's original hype IMO. My vinyl and analog set-up leaving my system anytime soon.

Now your second point is very valid (don't forget to throw Radio Shack into the mix). What makes this a bit more interesting is if you do same brand name swapping. Then I think you might really be on to something about the Reality Checker.

Clio09, I am not in any way dismissing LPs. Like you, my vinyl is staying and is still superior to any digital I have heard. My point was that there are occasional innovation that are a bust and others that prove worthy.

I tried the RS clock that looked identical to the EAU-1. It did not do anything that the EAU did, but I certainly would concede that the EAU's benefit was small. I still have both in my home.

I don't know what you mean by "brand name swapping."
I am open to other technologies, such as transferring to hard drives, but the jury is still out on them for me. Obviously, in my opinion the jury is in on the RealityCheck. My critics seem to think that I want everyone to follow my lead and buy what I like. Really, I don't care if anyone does, but I despise the notion that only through hype can innovative devises be sold.

Tbg,

Your points are well taken. It does take more than hype to sell a product. Some have done quite well on the hype cycle while they were the darlings of the reviewers and consumers, only to quietly, or in a few cases, not so quietly disappear into the night.

True quality products will withstand the test or time IMO. Just out of curiosity I'll be tracking the Reality Checker and its technology as I'd like to see where it is a year from now, let alone 5 years from now.

Clio09, I expect that the technology will show up in other burners but that it is short lived. There is evidence that the benefits to the copied discs vanish when put on hard drives. I fully expect that we will see such massive storage of pcm files on hard drives to be the wave of the near future with most songs downloaded over the internet.

Perhaps there is a way to process pcm to yield results on hard drives. In the mean time, I will continue to add to my 50 plus cds that I have copied. It is such a pain to four times clean the original and blank discs and then burn a copy, but the benefits are substantial. Now the question on AA is whether L'art de Son or AudioTop are the better clearner of both the originals and blanks.

Today I am doing 10 copies, so I had better get to work.

Kana813,
When you refer to "jitter" in the following statement,

"the unit is powered by a switch mode power supply. The noise level on these supplies can increase jitter in digital equipment"

are you referring to mechanical vibration or to clocking problems?

Exlibris-

Yes, the high level of ripple noise from these supplies can increase jitter on the clock generators. Power supply noise can also effect the disk read functions.

...I'm simply protecting unknowing folks from shills pushing bogus and marginal products. Consider it a service from a concerned ombudsman. Thank you.

I'll opt for self-service.

Kana813,
Thank you; I'll ask my technician to replace the stock power supply with a battery PS.

Exlibris, I assume a rechargable battery supply. I would be very interested in what you find to be the differences.

Regarding RealityCheck's applicability to hard drive files, here's a quote from George Louis:

I can add a hard drive (for an extra charge) to the duplicator for those who want to store many tracks and make many different compilations without re-duplicating the tracks by re-inserting the original discs each time. I feel that this degrades the sound a bit but it's still better than the original. It's just not as good as the direct digital-to-digital duplicating of an original disc to a CD-R.

He doesn't explain why storing the data on a hard drive degrades the sound which leads to question along the line of whether just storing the data in a memory buffer also degrades the sound? It's not clear whether his proprietary processing is occurring as the data is read from the source disc or as it is written to the target disc, so it may or may not be possible to perform batch processing upon existing hard drive based files.

If the product performs as he and other claim, then his marketing plan puzzles me. If it's really that big an advance in digital sound reproduction, then why is he marketing it directly to audiophiles, a vanishingly small population of the CD buying public. Wouldn't he be better off approaching the CD manufacturers and licensing his process? I imagine that there's more money to be made getting a fraction of a penny on every CD manufactured then there would be from selling his duplicator and CDRs to every know audiophile on the planet.

Exlibris- Before you add the batteries, check out:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resources/blackgate/blackgate043.pd

Onhw61, you assume that cd manufacturers care what their cds sound like. I too do not understand what is going on in this process, but it may have some tie to cdrs not cds. It also may have some to do with cleaning cdrs and cds properly. Vincent Sanders of VRS using an original and RC copy I sent reports that he could clearly hear the improvement playing on a player, but that when he burned both to hard drive, he could no longer hear a difference. Hidden within all of this may be some clue as to why Louis could not market this to a manufacturer.

Tbg has raised a very interesting point. The Acard unit displays their version of the software, not Geroge's version. Where is George actually programming the unit's software on the Acard?

Has anyone ever tried using an Acard duplicator not purchased from George?

Interesting thread. Perhaps another alternative for tweakers (note: link is to a PDF file, may want to right click and download first):

In Quest of Absolute Fidelity™: The Saga of the Black CD - Finding Black Gold

"music CDs using this (burn) process results in a spectacular improvement to the musicality of the CD playback"

Apparently similar results maybe obtained utilizing equipment we may already have - provided we find the correct media. Would be interested in hearing more comments on this - or is it just more "snake oil"?

Wow, Slothman, this is a very important posting based on very thorough testing. It sounds like George Louis has done his homework and reached the same conclusion as Mr. Koh. Some black cdrs are exceptional, cleaning with the right liquids is imperative, some copying softwares and hardwares are superior, and the results are "more life-like." The question remains as to whether buying the right black cdrs, finding the best cleaners, and getting the best hard and softwares allows you to equal or exceed the RealityCheck.

Yes indeed. A very important posting.

I met Gary Koh at RMAF in October in Denver. Nice guy. He even gave me some black CD's to try. I am purchasing a CD writer that he recommended and I'm planning to mod it with Superclock3 and battery power, as well as digital mods. CD's written with this machine should be almost as good as Computer-Driven Audio. In fact, I'm considering rewriting CD's as a service. The first time I heard this effect was at CES in January on generic CDROM media that was CD's rewritten by Mark Harmon of Zcable. Really outstanding results.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
manufacturer/modder

I had one of the RealityCheck cdrs and original at the RMAF in the Exemplar suiite.

Sorry I missed that.

The more I read the more I suspect there is nothing special being done with the Reality Check CD burner per se and what people are hearing is simply the result of the improvements inherent with very carefully copying massed produced CDs with better quality burners and using obsessive media cleaning techniques. People reported improved sound quality from burned CDs back when Meridian offered the first dedicated audio burners.

I don't have the link, but I saw on Audio Asylum the George Louis was involved in the manufacture/sale of Finyl CD cleaning solution. Is that similar to his current cleaning solution?

>>The more I read the more I suspect there is nothing special being done with the Reality Check<<

I agree. This product, along with many other new products, is being hyped by a handful of enthusiastic folks who have spent serious money. The result is justification of the purchase in the form of rave reviews IMO.

I have been running a Gary Koh-type burner rig for about a year. In my mind, there is no doubt the discs are better sounding. Other systems and their owners have sided with me on this. Mr. Koh's Melody discs are not available in the US, though I've had good luck with Mitsui Golds and Memorex Blacks.

Recently, I burned 5 well-recorded discs and sent them, along with the originals, to Mr. Louis. George copied my originals to the same type of blanks, using his process, listened, took notes, then sent all of it back to me.

So now, I have 5 originals, 5 copies the Gary Koh way, 5 copies the George Louis way, and George also sent me 5 of his Onix black discs to burn my way to compare. Whew!

I haven't had time to compare yet. I'll definitely get around to it this weekend and report back. With the toil it took to get the dedicated burner together, I'm leaning toward RealityCheck as a better answer for most people. It's plug-and-play after all.

For now, I'll just say Georges discs sound very good indeed. I'll need to spend some more time before I'll go further.

Thank you for your opinion as always.

What IS the difference between a suspicion and an opinion?