"03-28-10: Tvad Mmike84, you never mentioned price range (or ceiling), or room size restrictions (if there are any).
Do any of these criteria matter, or is your question intended to be as broad as possible? Tvad (Threads | Answers)"
Sorry for my tardy reply. I didn't want to limit it as I'm looking for a comprehensive resource (for me and others) of all of the high efficiency speakers that exist.
However I am looking for my own purposes so I could say less than $15k, and preferably less than $10k. My room is pretty big (18x25) and open behind the listening position.
I have been considering Coincident Pure Reference or TV IV's but I'm fearful of spending that much on a speaker I've never heard (and cannot unless I am willing to go to the factory). What if I decided not to keep it? I'd lose a lot of $.
But I am by no means decided. Audio Notes, Audiokinesis, and Tonians (these were added as a result of this thread)are definitely up for consideration.
One serious limitation I have is I can only bring them out about 18" unless they are light enough they can be moved out and back. Audio notes actually prefer that (from what I've heard) and so have a real advantage. I'm going to drag my amps up to Audio Federation and give them another listen. Primarily because I highly respect the opinions about them from many of you.
One side note. I think the emergence of very high quality class D amps provides a new alternative that makes it more practical for many to get the most out of less efficient, harder to drive designs in a manner that is competitive with high efficiency speakers running of similarly good amplifiation. I've gone this direction recently with my system and I think I have pretty much pushed it to the limit, or at least close to the limit of what is possible using conventional magnets. I do think powered field coils would be capable of pushing that limit significantly further if done well, though the cost would be quite high I assume.
I have never heard the field coil Shindo Labs LaTour speakers but have heard the field coil Feastrex drivers. Forget using them full range, but wow from 60 Hz to 20k Hz.
I'm still waiting for the worlds first field coil version of a Walsh driver based system.
Dale Harder, are you out there?
I'm assuming that could raise the efficiently level of Walsh drivers significantly to enable them be be driven optimally by more different kinds of amps, including tube amps.
In my mind, that could be an all time pinnacle in achievable sound quality, if it were possible.
I've heard the Classic Audio Loudspeaker, both T-1 and T-3 many times. The recent field-coil versions are remarkable. They are faster and just as detailed as the best electrostatics, yet very relaxed, and image easily. They are also very cohesive. The beryllium diaphragms used are custom-built. The have no breakups until about 40KHz, so the speakers are exceptionally smooth, even more than the Cogent, which uses phenolic diaphragms (or at least, did the last time I heard them).
The speaker also is easy to set up- you don't have to have it far from the walls to make it image well. It has bandwidth to 20Hz, and is about 99 db 1 watt/1 meter and 16 ohms. So you can shake the walls with a fairly small amplifier. IOW not only is this one of the best speakers you can buy at any price, but it is also easy to drive.
Isn't it true in general that the higher the efficiency of speakers, the more sensitive they are (in general) to minor variations in the signal fed them?
I've always assumed that deficient setup is the reason why many do not take to Avantgardes, because they are perhaps one of the hardest designs to get set up right.
Some may take to them just due to their "avantgarde" appearance alone and not have the ears or will or ability to set them up correctly.
I'd be surprised if I would not take to their sound assuming they have been setup well. I would also not be surprised if the setup in many cases chased me out of the room.
Proper set up is key for most speakers, just perhaps to the max for a design like Avantgarde, which push efficiency specs to the limit I believe.
Tvad, the Audionote speakers IMHO do not represent high efficiency speakers, although I do like them once Peter has set them up.
Mmike84, My favorite high efficiency speakers are: the Beauhorn Virtuousos and the Exemplar tractrix horns. I also thought the old Maxhorn using Feastrex drivers was excellent. I am once again out of my high efficiency and SET period and back to my modest efficiency multiple driver with fairly powerful SS amp period. What I really want is a single, one inch, full-range driver capable of 20-20k Hz speaker that is 103 db efficient. I haven't found any:)
Since we are on the topic, I would like to ask, if anyone can comment on Tannoy Westminster Royal SE performance, compared to, let's say Avantgarde Duo, or Classic Audio Reproductions T1.3, in terms of dynamics and their ability to play rock and complex classical music.(Avantgardes and CAR are the most dynamic speakers, I've ever listened to). I've read some comments here, that Tannoys couldn't do it well.
The Avantgarde speakers (especially the Trio) can be quite good *when setup right* and everything gels.
But the best hi-effeciency speaker - and the best speaker, period - that I have ever heard is the Cogent horn system with their field-coil compression drivers. There is no beating that system. Of course the cost is also staggering.
Funny story - when I had a Trio audition it was so bad I felt compelled to feign death in order to escape. To make the sale convincingly I popped a drug that lowered my heart rate and respiration to almost imperceptible levels - and woke up just as the autopsy was starting!!
I read some forums where the old / vintage school of high efficiency speakers - Klipsch, Tannoy, Altec, JBLs. even Audio Notes are the only way to go. On others like audiogon the newer high eff speakers - horns, Zu, Horning,Coincident, etc. are in a league of their own. I own Zu Druids but somewhat torn about which way to look next - the classics or the moderns...having not heard any of these for myself. Short of listen for myself any experience here that is beyond dogma.
I owned AN/Es (HE Kit 3s - basically equivalent to the factory SpE HE) and TL-D1s together for several months and went back and forth between them often. I think I can speak to their differences pretty well.
The Tonians are significantly faster and more open-sounding - they have a way with microdynamic finesse, esp. with percussion, I have basically not heard exceeded. Spellbinding.
The AN/Es had significantly lower bass as well as quite a bit more midbass energy. I also thought timbre was slightly better. Although the Tonians are never, ever shouty, being completely smooth and balanced, perhaps the AN/Es hemp driver gave slightly better harmonic density.
Although I preferred the Tonians for jazz I felt the AN/E was the slightly more well-rounded speaker.
Then I realized neither was really ideal for my huge room
WAF is a major inhibitor for me with these high efficiency horns because I would like to target them into my wife's sunroom where the Dynaudio monitors sit relatively unobtrusively today
Mapman,concerning the WAF,the SQ H-10 horn speakers are fairly compact.Here is a review of their larger brother,the H-15:
http://www.stereotimes.com/speak030410.shtml
Also I have heard several of the single driver Omega models.While the large stand mount Superhemps were my favorite,their small bookshelf and floorstand speakers were also quite good!
The Tonian TL-D1 that everyone considers a bargain, have a frequency response of 42Hz-40KHz. Limited bass response."
Yes the specs indicate that and I would say they are accurate. I would also say that with proper placement and adjustment of the bass port, the bass sounded like that produced by my Spendor 1/2e. Something I can easily live with.
Prior to buying my Audiokinesis speakers I looked hard a Dru Zuids and Audio Note AN/E. Logically, I always thought the Audionote would be a logical progression of my love for the Spendor sound, but with deeper bass. I will own a pair someday, but not yet.
I consider the Tonian TL-D1's a poor man's AN/E in some respects. However, you can get an AN/E kit and if you're handy put it together for around $3k. Now that would be something.
I was only in the large room then, and they were blaring something pretty loud. I think it was Van Halen. I don;t have anything against Van Halen or ZZ Top but hard rock makes up a small part of my listening these days. I recently had some Harbeths and felt for acoustic music and jazz they were excellent. For Radiohead, not so much. That's pretty much how I felt about the Audio Notes the first time I heard them. Did I create a false impression?
You are correct on Tonian. The 12.1 w/ copper voice coils are $11,900.
I'm totally lost on the Audio Note models and prices. I just can't make heads or tails of them. perhaps I'll call Audio Federation which is who displayed them at RMAF. It seems like the base models are fairly affordable and the high end model is the same basic speaker with upgraded parts. I can't imagine what they could do though to add $40,000 though. Even Tony's PHY drivers, which are some fairly expensive around, can be had at Madisound for a few thousand each.
I thought that model they had at RMAF was the same one I heard at their showroom which they told me was $50k+. They must have brought something else. Every time I was in their room at RMAF they were blaring rock music to show how well they can do rock music. That really turned me off and sent me moving on. If I wanted to play rock music I sure wouldn't be looking at Audio Notes. :)
I admit the Tonians, Coincidents, and Audio notes were high on my list when I started this thread. Thanks for chiming in on those TVAD and Paulfolbrecht.
There is definitely something special about the Audio Notes but they're certainly not cheap. The pair I heard were like $50k retail. But it sure seems like a lot of people end there after trying around. However I'm guessing the Tonians have a lot of similarities to the Audio Notes and they are considerably cheaper.
It seems like there are a lot of other companies flying under the radar which is what I was hoping to hear about. I feel like there is a small resurgence in high efficiency designs going on.
There have been at least a few suggestions I have not heard of before, and a lot I've never heard.
A few people chimed in 92db is not efficient and I agree but I figured it was the bottom end of what any sane audiophile could classify as efficient. I had to pick some bottom threshold so there it is.
I've been interested in trying high efficiency horns primarily based on fun factor as well as being at the other end of the design spectrum from everything I run currently.
The CAR speaks with the field coil drivers must be absolutely fantastic (and expensive), perhaps without comparison in certain ways.
When the time comes, I'll be wading into these waters to see how it feels before going for a major plunge!
WAF is a major inhibitor for me with these high efficiency horns because I would like to target them into my wife's sunroom where the Dynaudio monitors sit relatively unobtrusively today.
The Beauhorn is also very good, quite a bit smoother, but less heft.
Of course neither of these have any real highs (and if you 'throw in a super-tweeter' you're now building your own speaker).
Devore are great speakers but they are really not high-eff in any sense, though they will play on a 300B.
Klipsch can sound decent but the people who say they are mid-fi speakers stock do have a point.
The various Fostex backloaded horns have beguiling qualities but I have not heard one that did not have some forwardness/peakiness issues.
The Audio Note AN/Es are very special and will play decently on a 45 SET. Unfortunately in a great many rooms it is nearly impossible to get smooth bass in the corners and out of the corners the bass reach is quite compromised.
I don't think anyone has mentioned Avantgarde Acoustic horn loudpeakers yet? Avantgarde Trios have a specified efficiency (1Watt/1m) of >109 dB, beat that! I am sure someone will.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
