How highly efficient?
Is 89-90 db enough? I think that gets you into the ballpark with most good tube amps. Or are we talking only horn loaded or similar designs much higher than that? |
I have not heard many like that actually.
Some I would like to hear are Avantgarde and Classic Audio Reproductions (I think their horns qualify though I do not know their efficiency specs).
Cardersound is a reasonably priced line that I would like to hear.
Of course the usual culprits, the Klipschorns (the only ones I have actually heard though its been a while).
The thing with these very high efficiency horns is they tend to be BIG! You have to have the right room for a lot of them, althoughif WAF is not a concern, I've seen some monster horns fit into pretty tight quarters!
Also Cain & Cain Abbeys. Very slick looking! |
Clio,
The Tonians are a very interesting design! Thanks for sharing! |
The Tonian approach to cabinet design and resonance control (more "instrument" like) was something I had not heard of before that sounds very interesting. I'm wondering do any of these others take a similar approach? |
Are klipsch forte II in the same league as any of these others? I think those are like 99db efficient. |
Tvad,
I've been interested in trying high efficiency horns primarily based on fun factor as well as being at the other end of the design spectrum from everything I run currently.
The CAR speaks with the field coil drivers must be absolutely fantastic (and expensive), perhaps without comparison in certain ways.
When the time comes, I'll be wading into these waters to see how it feels before going for a major plunge!
WAF is a major inhibitor for me with these high efficiency horns because I would like to target them into my wife's sunroom where the Dynaudio monitors sit relatively unobtrusively today.
Very informative thread here! |
Tvad, did you note the differences between the $7500 audio notes and the $50000 ones, design and sound wise, while at the show? |
tvad,
do you know what say the klipsch forte or forte 2 at their lower price point give up to the ans or tonians? |
Isn't it true in general that the higher the efficiency of speakers, the more sensitive they are (in general) to minor variations in the signal fed them?
I've always assumed that deficient setup is the reason why many do not take to Avantgardes, because they are perhaps one of the hardest designs to get set up right.
Some may take to them just due to their "avantgarde" appearance alone and not have the ears or will or ability to set them up correctly.
I'd be surprised if I would not take to their sound assuming they have been setup well. I would also not be surprised if the setup in many cases chased me out of the room.
Proper set up is key for most speakers, just perhaps to the max for a design like Avantgarde, which push efficiency specs to the limit I believe. |
I'm still waiting for the worlds first field coil version of a Walsh driver based system.
Dale Harder, are you out there?
I'm assuming that could raise the efficiently level of Walsh drivers significantly to enable them be be driven optimally by more different kinds of amps, including tube amps.
In my mind, that could be an all time pinnacle in achievable sound quality, if it were possible. |
One side note. I think the emergence of very high quality class D amps provides a new alternative that makes it more practical for many to get the most out of less efficient, harder to drive designs in a manner that is competitive with high efficiency speakers running of similarly good amplifiation. I've gone this direction recently with my system and I think I have pretty much pushed it to the limit, or at least close to the limit of what is possible using conventional magnets. I do think powered field coils would be capable of pushing that limit significantly further if done well, though the cost would be quite high I assume. |
"...while in general ICE, Tripath, and other chip amps are VERY good for the money they are still missing some of what SETs do. IME."
What do SETs do that other amps cannot?
Can't the reverse be true also? |
I'm just wondering if there is anybody out there who would recommend building a system around a SET amp to an audiophile who listens to a lot of modern popular music, like metal, synth pop, rap/hip hop, etc.
For other more acoustic forms of music solely, I might go there first, but not for those things.
My point about Class D amps is that this technology IS well suited for these kinds of music, plus it does very well with more acoustic forms as well, though maybe perhaps not to the nth degree as might a top notch SET/FULL range high efficiency speaker setup. |
BTW, there is a good chance that if you are supplementing the low end of a SET based system with a high end powered subwoofer, that sub is using a Class D amplifier, not SET or even tubes in general. |
If somebody can show me a SET based system that can deliver Radiohead's "In Rainbows" with the authority and rock solid iron grip in the low end that I hear currently in my system running the (not so) big Bel Canto Class Ds, in a typcial sized listening room, I will be gladly convinced. |
MMike84,
Is it a safe assumption that you are looking for different speakers to go along with your tube gear? You aren't looking to replace the amp you have with a SET are you? That makes a big difference I would think on what speakers would work well. I don't think you need super high efficiency speakers necessarily with your amp. I would think 89-90db and a smooth 8 ohm load more or less is all that would be needed for your stuff to sing! |
Thanks Ralph.
I figured if anybody could identify a SET based combo that could deliver the goods, it was you!
I may well test the waters of tube amps in my 2 channel A/V second system, where I run triangle Titus XS speakers and an old M&K sub off a vintage 20 watt Yamaha receiver that I fixed up currently. I feel pretty sure I can do better there without breaking the bank, at least out of the gate. The Triangles are about 90db efficient, I believe. I have heard some run them of SET type amps with good results. |
