Help with UPS and Paypal

Not much it sounds like you can do- I think a situation like this one is known as bad luck. Sorry, but there seems to be little if any hope at this point- IMO. Maybe some of the lawyers here will have some idea for you.

Forget about any help from PayPal! All they want to do is collect their fee... especially if you didn't pay the "extra protection" amount. They'll tell you they're "not an escrow service".

I've had a similar problem with a vendor who misrepresented himself as a US dealer, and he was really in Indonesia! PayPal treated ME like I was the villain.

Anyway, It is unfortunate for you how things turned out. Maybe it's the price a few of us occasionally pay for these "good deals" on Audiogon. Sometimes I pay just a little more and buy from established and reputable dealers just to avoid these snafus.

Better luck in the future.

Thanks All!!!....I kind of got the feeling that I'm screwed, but thought that I might still have that small chance from someone that have a similiar experience.

Long

See if you can find the guy by doing a people search or maybe yahoo searches. Send a certified letter with return receipt to see if he gets it. Then file a samll claims court for the amount do in your home state. If you get that far you may be able to collect even if the sale was final. Do you know if UPS paid him the money yet? If not write them a letter and file in small claims court.

Happy Writing.

Take UPS to your local small claims court,they have a variety of excuses for not paying claims.You do not need a lawyer and filling charges are minimal. Once they are served for court they in most cases pay up.

A search of both (Miani Audio Video) and (Joseph Miani) turns up name/address/phone for each in Clearwater Florida. These are listed in public records...white pages-yellow pages. I would call him at home.

Dave

In the future, consider being the "shipper" when you buy something since UPS only reimburses the shipper. This is all the more prudent if you, as the buyer, will be paying for the shipping in addition to the price of what you purchased.
Also, I believe that UPS takes back the package from the receiver and sends it back to the shipper. If they only took pictures, and didn't take the box back, then I'm not sure if they re-imbursed the shipper. And finally, who initiated the claim with UPS? I believe that the shipper has to initiate the claim. If this guy initiated the claim, and then disappeared, then he may well have been reimbursed and got paid twice- once from you and once from UPS. If that's what happened, he is a very bad man. Maybe we ought to gather some "audiogon posses" in each major city to act on behalf of audiogon members and visit with these guys to encourage them to do the right thing.

I was the one who initiated the claim...and UPS is ready to pay the shipper as long as he made the claim....but he never did. Even if he does, I doubt it that he would pay me back as he made bunch of promises to me and never follow through with his words.

Soogood51,

Joesph Miani is his brother....they went to court against one another!!...I have John's home phone, but he never reply my calls...:-(

Thanks guys, I might just take UPS to a small claims court!!...I really hate it when UPS said I'm not their customer!!!...as I'm not the shipper!!...man, if it weren't for the receiver of UPS, they wouldn't have any shipper/sender to start out with!!!

Sometimes it's just easier on you to give it up, fix the damaged item, and forget about it.

Are the speakers totally ruined?

I mention this because I know very well how a situation like this can just become too all-consuming of one's energies.

Life is too short. Enjoy it, and enjoy the music.

Best of luck in the future and with future transactions.

John

I can't really help you but I know about John Miani. My parents went into business with him 'Miani Audio Video' and he got into drugs and fucked everything up. He stole almost all the audio equipment and closed the store, causing almost bankruptcy. The guy has all kinds of criminal charges, even his family. He stole from his dad.

Other than that...don't ever deal with the dude again. He's no good.

I more or less agree with Jbatlanta that the time and effort you spend trying to recover will probably not be worth what you're likely to collect.
However, if you want to pursue the matter, I agree with Bigkidz to first file a small claims action against the seller. That assumes that your state's small claims court has a procedure for suing someone located out of state. A small claims court judgement agsinst the seller might strengthen your hand in dealing with UPS, because their "shipper" now indisputedly owes you money related to the shipment in question. Your position would be that, because UPS owes the seller and the seller owes you, UPS can and should pay you directly.
If UPS doesn't respond, the next step would be to take UPS to small claims court. Your argument would be same as stated above. Of course, you should mention that the seller is out of business, so the court knows you have no recourse in that direction. You should also emphasize that if UPS doesn't pay you, it will end up keeping the money because the out-of-business seller is never going to make a claim. That amounts to "unjust enrichment" of UPS. Courts don't like unjust enrichment where a party clearly owes someone, yet gets to keep the money because of a technicality.
Technically, UPS still has a defense, but judges in small claims court often overlook technicalities. The judge might also lean in favor of enforcing the rights that the court already established in your first action against the seller. UPS' refusal to pay has the effect of frustrating the legal rights the court previously granted you.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.