Help w/sale to Ireland, please. Need quick answer

Absolutely correct. Still that wastes our time and fighting with a big company like UPS or FedEx is like fighting city hall.

I prefer to not put myself in a position to have the problem occur in the first place. If everyone was as honest and you and I, we would not be having this discussion.

OK, fair enough Albert. But then it seems that Fedex is trying to charge you friend for the fault of THEIR agent, who relased the stuff before collecting the taxes.

I don't question you Elberoth, just posting my experience with FedEx and UPS at the USA end.

If I could be 100% certain that putting my number in the tax slot would not hammer me one day, I would not worry about it. The problem comes not from you, but maybe someone who's in a hurry, signs for the item and walks off.

Maybe the agent is busy, maybe waiting to go to lunch or talking to their loved one? I just know that IF something can go wrong and you risk it often enough, you will get clobbered.

I don't want to wind up in a contest with FedEx, me claiming they are wrong and I don't owe and them saying my account is on hold and (possibly) turning me over to collections because I refuse to pay duty (they) screwed up on.

If you think I'm over reacting, I have a friend who is part of my music group (and reviews for Dagogo) who no longer has a FedEx account. This exact thing happened to him, he refused to pay and they are still fighting.

I just can't risk it, it's NOT you. It's the possibility of incompetence of some official out of my reach that can slap charges on my invoice.

Albert - I have imported more stuff to EU that I can recall, and I was never/ever been able to reclaim the goods before paying the VAT tax and duties. There was simply NO WAY to do so.

If the buyer does not pay local taxes, he will not get the item. The item will be returned to the seller. There is NO WAY the seller being charged import duties or other taxes.

Strangely enough Elberoth2, Tiger is correct and you are wrong. I found out the hard way, believing as you do on this topic.

Two weeks ago I got into a knock down drag out with FedEx over this exact ruling, and I've had an account with them for more than 20 years. I filled out a waybill at FedEx.com for overseas shipment and there are two options for tax and duty, shipper or recipient.

When you choose recipient, a pop up window asks for THEIR account number. Well, if recipient had an account number I would have been using that all along. So, I checked the box designating recipient pays tax and duty anyway and continued the process.

After printing the waybill I noticed the receipt listed MY account number for taxes and duty. I called FedEx international for assistance, assuming I had clicked a wrong radio button.

That's when I found out tax and duty falls back on my account if things don't go as expected.

I said, "Look, it's simple, don't give them the merchandise until they pay"

FedEx says, "Sometimes these things fall through the cracks, and in that case the shipper is responsible. Perhaps you should charge the customer for that up front."

In other words, if they screw up, I get the 10% to 30% value of item charged back on MY FedEx account.

I cancelled the shipment and called UPS. UPS has the same policy. The solution is don't open a UPS account. Go to a UPS store (not UPS main office) and pay cash for the shipment overseas and keep the receipt.

If they are too stupid to collect the tax and duty, it falls on UPS. They cannot come after me because I filled out the form and already paid at my end and there is no account for them to charge to.

If the parcel is returned, they would contact me to come pick up, at which time I would pay any fees and refund ONLY the remaining balance from what the customer paid for the item in the first place.

This way the buyer nor I get screwed. I cannot control the box once it leaves my hands but I won't be held responsible for the shippers incompetence or a buyer that tries to skip on paying at their end. I don't want to hurt anyone but also don't want to get screwed.

It's unfortunate it has become so difficult.

If the buyer does not pay the latter costs, UPS's brokerage arm will look to you for those amounts. So price the sale accordingly.

If the buyer does not pay local taxes, he will not get the item. The item will be returned to the seller. There is NO WAY the seller beeing charged import duties or other taxes.

On any international sale, do not do paypal. Bank to bank wire transfer is the best, safest and safest. Shipping should be via ups, with signature. However, there may be duty and VAT issues that could cost you about 25% of the value of the goods. If the buyer does not pay the latter costs, UPS's brokerage arm will look to you for those amounts. So price the sale accordingly.

Albert, you said it much more eloquently than I and 110% true, I like to
call mine the Cliff Notes version

See Albert's response. Wire transfer is best.
I recently accepted wire transfer from Thailand, Norway and Italy. No problems.
I shipped crate to Italy and large amps- no problems.
Be prepared to pack items very, very well.

Check into registered mail though if you're using the post office...

It's a lot safer.

O

o

.

Agree with Justlisten and add the following:

If you want a bullet proof transaction, accept only wire transfer for the transaction. Better still, set up a second account at your bank that is exclusively for PayPal and accepting wire transfers.

When you send your bank data overseas, there is always a tiny risk that someone can get your data and forge a check or make a false draft against your bank account. I never keep more than $50.00 in my PayPal - wire transfer account and use my banking internet connection (secure site) to transfer to my regular account as quickly as funds arrive.

If PayPal gets a charge back from the buyer and you're verified, they pull funds from your PayPal balance.

If you don't have enough in your PayPal account PayPal goes for your bank account. If you don't have sufficient funds in your bank account, that causes a problem between you and your bank, not you and PayPal.

Bottom line, your protected in the USA from USA customers that are VERIFIED and IF you ship to their VERIFIED address given by PayPal. If you fail to do that, PayPal is not on the hook to back you.

Outside the USA, banking and credit card rules are governed by THAT country's laws, not what we think is fair or what our banks say should be.

All that being said, wire transfers made INTO the USA are not reversible once made. It's about the only truly safe way to get money from outside the USA and know it's really in your account.

If he does not have any feedback, I would advise against PayPal and go with wire transfer. Much safer for you.

As an Irishman who goes back regularly, I'd say there are no special risks beyond the normal ones any seller takes in shipping. Be sure to pack well and use a reliable method for collecting payment. It is certainly no more difficult than shipping to any other part of the EU and probably a lot simpler than some other places. I don't care for the joke about the IRA but I'm sure no insult was intended.

added risks??

Sure,
I am not sure if PayPal does sellers protection to Ireland
Damage to unit in transit.
PayPal charge back, if buyer files a disputed charge with his credit card company

Once you get your money...ship it. I shipped to a guy in Japan last year, no problems at all.

Dave

I generally wait until funds are cleared and in my bank, then ship when in question. PayPal generally take a few days, withdraw the funds to your bank and when it is done ship, the funds are yours and the gear is his or hers.

I am the seller. The buyer has no feedback on Audiogon. This is his first transaction.

Does the seller have any feedback ?

the IRA?