Dear Zenblaster: I do not posted what you posted. I understand was a " finger " mistake to took my name.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Raul, It appears that your mind was made before you even listened. As soon as the music began, it became apparent the HD Download was superior; there was a "jet black" background. This is something I had never heard before. I'm fully aware of the fact that's an "oxymoron". "How can you hear what you don't hear, and you have never heard before". Only an audiophile can understand that, consequently, I won't try to explain it. After only two cuts, I gave the HD Download an "A+" rating.
I thought you were more pragmatic than to loosely proclaim HD's superiority after a a few minutes of listening. Considering the subjectivety of "superior sound" and the vagaries of what constitutes "class A" and "Class B" it just seems out of character for you. So, after 2 cuts you give HD download and A plus, have you reached the summit? IMHO, once music enters the digital domain something is lost, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. It looses something intangible and I haven't found a way to bring it back (dac are a compromise to equate digits to art, it will never replace the analog (art) HD downloads come with a completely different set of compromises compared to analog, but they are there. If our reference is live music the jet black background is another form of distortion and that is only the begining. HD allows us to perform a lot of tricks with music and in my mind takes us further from the summit. |
Raulirgras, and Chayro; there are more variables in this game than you can shake a stick at. There are current CD's, not old music on new CD's; but new music recently recorded that is better than my HD Downloads of old music. You have to take all variables into consideration as you come to them.
Enjoy the music.
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There is no doubt that High Rez digital can sound very good. And there is no denying the convenience and noise floor are superior to very good analog. I would say that if one is starting out and has a very small music library, than an argument can certainly be made for skipping analog and going with High Rez files for both sonic and price reasons.
However, if one is older and has a large collection of records that are not available on a high rez digital format, then the argument can shift in favor or analog. There is also how the medium tends to be used. I put on a record and listen to it for 20 minutes. I've seen people with an iPad listen to high rez who only play one song while they are searching the screen for the next cut. It can be a very different experience.
I think most will agree that both can sound good.
Regarding Stereophile ratings: The best systems I have heard tend to be ones that have very well matched components and are very well set up in good rooms. They have little to do with Class A ratings and everything to do with the people who put the systems together. |
Dear Orpheus10: ++++ " If one already has a Class "A" analog rig, there is certainly no reason to get excited about HD Downloads,.... " ++++++
I have not experiences with HD Downloads in my system ( I will try to have it asip. ) but if is similar to the quality performance level of a well recorded DVDA played in a decent today DAC ( 32/192. ) then IMHO I can tell you that even those A system persons could be existed when they understand what they are hearing through digital and what is happening through analog, not before.
Regrads and enjoy the music,
R. |
When such places as high end emporiums were available, I went to these places like someone who was on a mission, my mission was to verify, or nullify Stereophile's rating system. For me, I verified Stereophile's rating system.
I'm going to give you examples of Stereophile ratings that are old and recognizable analog audio: Class "A" turntable VPI TNT MK V $6000., and that was one of the cheaper TT's.
Tonearms Class "A": Tri-Planar Mk VI $3250.; Rega RB 900, $995.
Cartridges: Class "A" Lyra Helikon $1995.; van den Hul Colibri $6000.
These different classes are not just some arbitrary designations given by reviewers, but different levels of sonic quality. It's the sound of Class "A" as compared to the sound of Class "B". Of course we all know a cartridge does not generate a sound alone, it's the improvement of the sound of the music after installation of that cartridge in your system. As audiophiles, we are required to learn system compatibility, but that will not replace component quality, and you can not get class "A" sound with Class "B" components, although you can consider whatever sound you're listening to Class "A".
A class "C" Rega TT can be upgraded to yield Class "B" sound with modifications, and there are other components that can be modified to yield a higher sonic quality, but to get into the vaunted realm of Class "A" sonics will require a trip to the bottom of one's pockets, especially since every single solitary component in the chain must be at that same sonic level.
I believe these HD Downloads are generating the equivalent of Class "A" analog. If one already has a Class "A" analog rig, there is certainly no reason to get excited about HD Downloads, but on the other hand, I believe they're economical for those of us who don't.
Enjoy the music.
|
I grew up with Santana and Sabbath and I loved their music, well not Sabbath, but you get the idea. I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I just don't think that using these records to prove the superiority of a particular medium is really valid. Most of those older rock records had the sh*t compressed out of them and were generally produced as cheaply as possible. I'm absolutely not defending vinyl here - I play more CDs than records myself and they can be excellent. I just think that before a pronouncement is made, a wider cross section should be used. Try James Taylor JT, which was exquisitely recorded, even back in the early 70s, or god forbid, some acoustic music like a Mozart string quartet. Again, please - I am not criticizing anyone's taste in music. If anything, IMO, the music of the late 60's and early 70's was the absolute pinnacle of rock, much as the 68-70 American muscle cars were the high point of American auto making. The 70 GTO was stunning! Enjoy what you like. |
I'll share my experience with regards to HD audio. Some months back I got to listen to a very high end system. ARC 40th Anniversary Ref, Ref 610, CD8, Ref DAC and an Oracle turntable outputted to the big Maggies. It was a magical night. (Let me just say as a side note that this system sounded fantastic and very musical, in fact, I think the Oracle had a bit better PRAT than my Sota; but I was still able to come home and enjoy my humble system.) I got to hear some CD's, some records and some HD music files. Analog on this system sounded very musical and enjoyable. Then we played some "select" HD files. I say select because my buddy said there is a lot of variation in sound quality even among HD files. To me, the HD music was as good as analog but without any background noise. The soundstage was just as large and holographic as analog. Then we we played some CDs the music and soundstage just seemed flat in comparison; and this was on the ARC CD8! I'm sold on the HD files route but I am bewildered with all of the choices that must be made and not having a way to audition various systems leaves me out in the cold. I want to go HD, just that I am waiting and trying to sort out the best path. |
No doubt, if you have the right equipment, analog can be better than digital, but at what price? That's something you can't get around, and no amount of mixing and matching is going to change that. |
Dear Orpheus10: My comparison was not exactly HD down load but I made a comparison between digital through a CD player and LP with the same tittle recording and by coincidence one of the titles I used was the Santana Abraxas, the LP is a half-speed mastered by CBS master recordings. You can read something here:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&10109&4#10109
here an additional experiences on the same subject:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&10228&4#10228
I'm an analog lover but not a close-mind one that can't " see " the today digital superiority, superiority gained/achieved for very good reasons
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
In my opinion it depends a lot on the catalog number (mix) and pressing. I have some Black Sabbath UK Vertigo first pressings, self titled, and Master of Reality and the presentation of the soundstage and where Ozzy's voice is is different than the remasters. The emphasis on guitar versus voice is completely different. I believe a proper comparison, you would need to ensure that the record and the digital file was generated from the Same master tape, ensuring the same mix. If I didnt have the Vertigo labels with the original mix, I would not have known how different the digital files and re masters sound. |
I think you are approaching this all wrong. System matching is far more important than just buying a bunch of highly rated components. You can't listen to any one component. The only way you can evaluate a piece of gear is to listen to it as part of a system. You need to consider that when you are reading reviews. A reviewer may rate a component as an A piece, but he can only do this in the context of his own system. You may listen to the same component in your system, and come to the conclusion that its a C component. I know that makes component selection more difficult, but thats just the way it goes.
You can, however, get around all this. I would recommend that you stop reading reviews. You don't need them. It may sound like a weird suggestion, but it works. You'll get much better sound if you go through the process of building a system by yourself, without any help from outside sources. Thats how you really learn audio. |
I agree entirely with Orpheus10 on the sound quality of HD computer audio, albeit from a different perspective. See my previous post on this subject:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1364947210&openmine&zzMgattmch&4&5#Mgattmch
BTW; I have no commercial association with HD Tracks, I just like their products. |
