Has Rel fallen out of favor with audiophiles?

Artemis_5

No worries. Your loss not mine. i thought my setup was listed but perhaps I made a mistake. I use large ATC and have their largest subwoofer. Woofers are all 15 inch...

I suspect REL work best with speakers that have 6 inch or smaller woofers. The compression at higher levels will be in good synergy with the limitations of a smaller woofer. 

You suspect wrong as usual shadorne. The strong positive response to REL on this thread once again obviates your delusive opinions on audio.

Dave

I never drive my RELs to compression, and they would likely shut themselves off if I tried and the bass would be WAY out of balance…I own a classic no longer available Mackie HR120 sub I use in my studio, and it's 500 class A/B watts driving an EAW 12 with a passive 12" radiator, and is basically flat to 19hz. I also use various 18" thousand watt plus subs in live sound mixing work, and no home audio sub will come close to what those can do...I know compression, don't like it, and won't allow my poor little RELs to partake in it.

Dave,

You have an amazing system and I agree that used together in stereo the REL subs will have enough SPL so I stand corrected by you. However, why buy 2 REL when 1 JL can do the job and even better....

phusis
  In other words, from what I can gather, you can have your cake and eat it too with the present state of subwoofers.

Lots of good posts in this thread. This may be the most succinct answer to  my question.

I haven't been in the subwoofer market in many years and was wondering if Rel had cornered the market in integration.  Apparently not. Thanks

Wolf-Garcia
  I never drive my RELs to compression, ... I know compression, don't like it, and won't allow my poor little RELs to partake in it.

Wolf. I'm not sure what you mean by "compression"?. I understand compression as in Mp3. And as limiting dynamic range. I don't play Mp3s and have no control on the compression used in recordings. Can you please elaborate?
BTW, I play drums and sing so I understand what you are saying about the pro sound 18" subs 

Shadorne
  I suspect REL work best with speakers that have 6 inch or smaller woofers.

dlcockrum
  You suspect wrong as usual shadorne. The strong positive response to REL on this thread once again obviates your delusive opinions on audio

I recently read on Rel's website that they do not recommend using their subs with small woofers such as those found in monitors

From Rel setup guide
REL products are not traditional subwoofers, but true Sub-Bass Systems. A REL is designed to augment the performance of FULL RANGE speaker systems in order to provide, in certain cases, linear response below 15Hz.
https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006046688-Two-Channel-Tuning-Guide

When a driver is driven to extreme levels it can "compress" meaning it limits its own output by no longer responding to dynamics, having zero to do with recorded compression which is simply limiting extremes to squish loudness dynamics generally for higher overall volume...also, I don't care what REL publishes on their website regarding which mains work best with RELs (my main speakers use a "D'Appolito" array with a tweeter surrounded with equal output magnesium/aluminum woofers that are 3.75" with very large magnets in a tuned and ported column…surprisingly good bass within limits…flat to 50 hz, and rated to maybe 38hz which is somewhat misleading) as they have no idea what speakers you're going to use. I've always thought REL's use of "sub-bass" as opposed to subwoofer is silly as all you need to know is what they're doing…taking the speaker signal and filtering out the high frequencies…if you have small monitors that deliver bass to 60hz or 80hz or something, you adjust the REL to that frequency and that's it. The "not traditional" part of their hype is just not an actual thing.

When a driver is driven to extreme levels it can "compress" meaning it limits its own output by no longer responding to dynamics,

Wolf. I thought that is probably what you meant. But I hate to assume. I've always heard that called being over driven. But whatever the case, I agree with what you are saying. 

As for  the use of sub base, I just see that as marketing. Everyone has a gimmick. And many use the Rel with monitors. Their statement  may be nothing more than a CYA IF the sub does not fill the bill or satisfy the customer who may be expecting something which said sub cannot possibly do. If you run sound then you know that one venue takes more speakers and amplification than another. In the same way, one room needs more than another. IE, a T5 may fill my office space of 1400 cu ft. But it won't fill my LR of 5K cu ft. 
When i bought my Rel Storm 3 Rel was the strongest player at the time. the 18" Bag End was popular too. But rel was the Big player audiophile sub.The Storm was quite popular because the specs were pretty good and the footprint is small which is a necessity for me.  

My big question in this thread has been moreso about the integration of the other subs which are now on the market. And from all the answers i get, it looks like the others integrate as well as rel

shadorne,

I think Arte’s recent post quoting the REL setup guide exactly reflects my personal experience, ie the REL is a "sub-bass system designed to augment the performance of full-range speaker systems ...".

In my room, my speakers do not need traditional bass enhancement, but the sound is improved by the sub-20hz sound-pressure loading of my room provided by the REL(s). The REL(s) are more felt than heard, yet imaging, soundstaging, and midrange clarity are all improved by the effect of this ultra-low frequency room loading. Two RELs simply provide a more uniform loading in my room, as I think it would be be with JL, etc. also. 

The REL(s) can also be used in out-of-phase mode to help cancel room-induced bass nodes beyond what is modulated by my sealed corner bass traps, a feature I find useful as my source changes. Each source can be (and should be IMO) optimized by different settings, ie REL(s) off with my TT (subsonic interaction), on but fed via XLR line-level inputs from my HT processor, and on with digital sources fed via the hi-level input from my amplifier(s) with judicious setting of the crossover and gain to optimize integration without adding bass bloat, often by also switching between in-phase and out-of-phase settings depending on the digital source.

I like JL and would unconditionally recommend them to those with the need for true bass enhancement to main speakers with limited low-frequency reproduction or don’t have the freedom to handle room nodes with acoustical treatment, specific placement, etc. The advent/implementation of digital room EQ included in the better JLs is invaluable in those situations and the JLs are great subs regardless IMO.

The RELs still, as they always have, provide a unique solution for those with true full-range speakers, an acoustically treated room, and with the freedom to cater to their placement and setup requirements.

Dave

I have used REL subs for the last 20 years and love em to death. I started out with the Storm series 1, 2 and 3 then jumped to a Stadium ll and couldn't be happier. I use the high level inputs and it is run along side a pair of Vienna Acoustics Beethoven original speakers. I never have to turn up the sub volume past nine o'clock and rarely have to adjust the crossover, basically keeping it at the lowest crossover setting. I have listened to a few newer REL subs (after John Hunter took over) and wasn't impressed, but that's after spending much time with my Stadium ll and a friends Stentor ll run with a pair of Sonus Faber Extremas... that was a kick ass combo. Anyways, I think the point, as stated elsewhere in this thread, is that the top end original REL subs (Stadium, Stentor and Studio) are hard to beat for smooth effortless musical bass. You can still find super clean examples of these subs on the used market for very reasonable prices. Peace.

Thanks to all who have responded. From the responses I would conclude that Rel is still a player in the audiophile subwoofer market. However, like all things audio, they have their adherents and their detractors. And they have a lot of competition now, unlike 10-15 yrs ago.
It almost seems foolish NOT to try SVS because of their satisfaction guarantee. They pay for return shipping also. Customer reviews seem to point out the musical advantage of Rythmik. Both these companies offer return policies while Rel & Sumiko do not (unless you buy from a store which has a return policy

At this point I may be leaning towards a DIY Rythmik 15" sealed box. I have limited space. The sealed box fits where I need it to fit. I can build 2 and have 2 very good subs for the price of one factory assembled. I am a woodworker with all the necessary  tools. So that hurdle is conquered. Now for the time & $$$. Aren't they always the biggest hurdles?

Wood tools? Not only do I own digitally controlled servo subwoofers I own a SawStop. You wanna talk controversy? 

 http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml

Wear a mask and have fun with it.

Best wishes for success, Arte. Let us know how it works out.

Dave

I bought a REL Stentor3 years ago and think the company has the worst customer service I've ever dealt with.

I think Sumiko owned them when I tried to get a new amp for it and they gave me the run around so I stuck it in the closet until recently.

Wrote the current owners and they never even wrote me back. Tired of this hunk of junk taking up space.The dealer I bought it from wasn't much help either.

Are the REL's of today only REL by name and not what REL used to be with Mr Lord at the helm? The studio sub was eye candy to me back in the day. Then again the whole REL range were the mutts nuts when it came to bass, bass and more bass. Not heard any of the new breed of subs from REL though.

REL offers a 60 day satisfaction guarantee trial if you purchase directly from them. Just purchased a REL T/7i and am getting it dialed in.  So far, so good.  REL offers a dedicated wireless feature, included in some products, but also available for $199 add-on. 

That $199 add-on doesn't work with older RELs for reasons I find mysterious (does it require a specific input that older models lack?). In any case…LAME...

The new Ti and S series have what looks to be an RS232 interface where the wireless adapter plugs straight into. 

You know why I don't think of REL too often?   Because my R305 that I've had for a while draws no attention to itself and blends perfectly with my mains....

phusis,

Thank you for your reply re: SVS subs.  Well written, informative and best of all, is helping me decide which route to take!

-- Bob

Well, I bought another Rel Storm 3 to pair with my existing one. Bought from Ebay. Got it and plugged it in, only to have a big hum coming from it. I just had it plugged into the wall when the loud buzz started immediately upon powering up. I was afraid to hook it to my amp. Therefore I got a refund via paypal. Seller didn't respond to sending it back. So i still have it and trying to figure out what to do with it.
The hum is too loud to be a ground loop. Plus it happens just being powered up without connecting to my system. I suspect the amp is bad.So I'm back at the beginning....again. Maybe I'm just supposed to live with the one sub. Sounds good but I want a little more. Crazy audiophool stuff.

Hi artemus,

There may be nothing wrong with the Storm 3. I have had that happen before installing the hi-level cable from the amp to the REL.

Dave

Artemus_5, I haven’t read the rest of this thread, but re your last post Dave could very well be right. The input impedance of the high-level inputs of REL subs is very high, 100K in the case of many models. An unconnected high impedance input is inherently susceptible to hum pickup, that might even be coupled into the input from the sub’s own amplifier.

The input impedance of the line-level inputs of most REL subs is much lower, 10K in the case of many models, which reduces that susceptibility somewhat, but may not eliminate it.

What you can do for test purposes is any one of the following:

1) Connect shorting plugs to the sub’s RCA inputs, if you have them.

2) Alternatively, connect the sub’s high-level cable to the sub, and connect its yellow, red, and black wires together, to each other. That will result in a near zero impedance at the sub’s high-level input, which is not much different than the impedance a power amplifier would present to it.

3) Alternatively, connect the sub’s line-level inputs to the line-level outputs of a preamp or source component, with that component being powered up but not processing a signal. And with its volume control, if it has one, set to minimum. That will result in the sub’s line-level inputs being forced to a relatively low impedance.

Obviously, have the sub turned off while you are implementing these connections.

Regards,
-- Al

A Hi-Level connection, Proper placement and model selection, REL's installed in pairs are very strong practices as REL can benefit any speaker system.
We are a REL Dealer and choose REL as they are a true Sub-Bass System. Powered by a truly audiophile quality amplifier and lightning fast drivers, they are designed by John Hunter who is a musician, a lover of home systems and passionate in creating amazing experiences with systems at any price. Look us up and come by the store www.sunnyaudiovideo.com
626-966-6259.

Dlcockrum. mine makes the sound without being hooked up to anything except the power outlet

Almarg, I appreciate your information. However, being and electronics illiterate, I will have to get a friend to decipher. Still, I suspect the info is good and he will understand. Whatever, it seems that maybe the sub isn’t bad after all, which will be great IMO

BTW, thanks to all. 

With amplifier turned off, securely connect the individual hi-level wires of the REL cable to amp’s speaker terminals per RELs instructions and plug the connector on the other end into the REL’s hi-level input. Turn on amplifier, plug the REL’s power cord into the AC receptacle, and switch on.

Dave

Audio, unlike trains or stamps. is a very fadish hobby .

Dlcockrum. IOW, just hook it up and try it? I have been concerned that it might damage my amp. Is my concern uncalled for?

I would (I cannot see how it could damage your amp) but that is your call to make. Again, mine did the same thing recently when I was moving my gear/cabling around and it stopped when I connected the hi-level cable using the technique above with no damage to anything.

Shubert - are you Sheldon Cooper operating under a pseudonym? Do you like flags too?

Dave

Yes,  velodyne subwoofer's  are making a big come back.