Has anyone ever tried cables made with OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) Copper?

 

 

@mceljo How many cable manufactures are out there that maintain the same exact design other than the conductor material where a true "all other things being equal" comparison can be made? I know that this is true for Iconoclast by Belden designed by Galen Gareis where, for example, there are multiple conductor options for most of the cables though they all are identical in design otherwise. Are there other options?

Yes, there are other options -

Analysis Plus has their own source of Crystal Continuous Copper and Silver with their own "Oval" patented conductor and dielectric design. They build cables for NASA and the pro audio industry too. Home audio benefits from these trickle-down designs.

Cardas Audio has their own design of continuous annealed copper sourced from their own mining operation arrangement. Their own concentric conductor and dialectric designs have been developed and refined over 3+ decades.

Own and use both. Each offer characteristics over my other boutique cables.

 

How many cable manufactures are out there that maintain the same exact design other than the conductor material where a true "all other things being equal" comparison can be made?  I know that this is true for Iconoclast by Belden designed by Galen Gareis where, for example, there are multiple conductor options for most of the cables though they all are identical in design otherwise.  Are there other options?

Willywonka,

I have to say you're very knowledgeable, OCC is the best conductor but if you have bad geometry it's not going to make a lot of difference so all those things go together and there is something even better now that Neotech is producing and that is rectangular OCC single crystal wire far superior to round OCC check out their website their reference line is the Amazon which is their rectangular silver OCC wire and the Sahara which is their rectangular copper OCC wire, I have the Sahara interconnects and their speaker wire bi-wired and it is much better than the Harmonic Tech pro 9 SE speaker wire and my harmonic Tech magic by ll interconnects I can hear stuff way into the background that I couldn't hear before the background is much blacker and quieter and everything is more open and three dimensional not cheap but well worth it.

pindac,

and just for your information the ducc conductor is not as good as single Crystal OCC it's one or two steps below still very good wire but OCC single crystal is still the best conductor for audio.

pindac,

neotech still uses the original OCC process to make single crystal wire they were one of the three original companies to get the licensing, they are now producing something even better and that's rectangular OCC single crystal wire which is superior to the round OCC, the reference line consists of the Amazon which is their silver rectangular OCC wire and the Sahara which is their copper rectangular silver wire I've got the Sahara speaker wire and interconnects and I can tell you it was much better than my Harmonic technology top of the line interconnects and speaker wire using round o c c. not cheap but well worth it these cables will definitely go up against $18,000 wire and beat them.

@dougthebiker - OCC copper (or the various other variants along the same lines) make a significant difference over OFC copper - mainly in the area of dynamic performance.

Clarity, Details and Tonal Neutrality are closely tied to the cable geometry and the insulations used

• a good cable geometry will lower the noise floor in a cable
• an effective insulation also lowers the noise floor
• the result of these two aspects result in improved clarity and details that ultimately result in a more spacious and detailed image

If you want to understand more about these aspects take a look at this link

The Ultimate Helix IMAGE "Air" - With a little help from my friends | My Audio Alchemy (image99.net)

If you have any questions just ask

If you are not into DIY, then I would give a +1 to Zavfino products as posted above.

• they use OCC copper and OCC silver
• they employ and advance geometry and advanced insulations
• they have a range of products that are affordable

Happy to Help - Steve

Interesting thing about cables- you wouldn't think they could make a difference, but they do. A substantial difference in some instances. YMMV.

@mbolek Thank You for informing me.

This one will be of real interest; I have others who were introduced to PC Triple C through me directly as a result of loaned Cables for Demonstration and also via me due to impressions made and shared from demonstrations given.

The reports are quite impressive from those who I do not know.

I or nobody else I am aware of has reverted back to a previous used Wire in a Cable.

As said one individual even cannibalized a Cable and used the PC Triple C Wire to produce Tonearm Wand Wires

As the XLR is in theory a Low Eddy Connection and the PC Triple C is a Cable that can really impress, I look very forward to the update on the Helix Thread.

When the Speaker Wire was used there was a need to burn in, which took about an hour, something happened, in that time and the A/B to the older cable in use was quite something, the Triple C superseded it without any reservation.

I am not familiar with a XLR Configuration, there might be a need to give it a Burn In Period as I had with the Speaker Cable.  

Zafino Cable.

OP - no brainer for me when I moved to all OCC solid core cabling.  I make all my cables and you can find OCC bulk cabling and low mass connectors (ETI/KLE, AECO, etc) at reasonable pricing from several places.  Partsconnexion and Venhaus being my two go to sources.  

I agree with others that there are so many different variations out there and you really need to build/listen/eval based on your system or systems.  Fun for us DIY'ers that like this sort of thing.

I've been experimenting with several different configs and found the "Helix" design with OCC copper has won out without question.  

For me, I'm not looking to change/color the sound as some cables claim to do.  I have always followed the adage of good conductors, good connectors (or no connectors) and secure connections get me where I want to be.

@pindac - I finally should have my AR Triple C XLRs built this week.  I'll post my impressions over on the DIY Helix thread...

 

The following is a Copy/Paste Edit from another Thread I have contributed to.

__________________________________________________________________

"Acrolink Stressfree 6N,7N,8N, are using an Ultrapure Wire produced by Mitsubishi referred to as D.U,C,C.

This wire is the competitor to wire supplied by a rival Company Furukawa.

Furukawa stopped production of the Licensed Wire OCC and replaced it with their own unique forged wire production which is a Wire PC Triple C.

I have been using Cables with wires D.U.C.C, PC Triple C and have but am yet to use PC Triple C/EX.

I have these wires as Power Cables, Interconnects, Speaker Cables, Cartridge Tag Wires. These will eventually become internal signal wire used on owned devices. Working out which wire might be the best will need a little thought and might need a EE in attendance to help with the final selection process.

There is an individual I have introduced to PC Triple C and the impact it has had had been quite substantial. They have bought in their own Brands and have also now used it as I have, but with the additional use, being their Phonostage has it as internal wiring and their Tonearm now has it as Internal Wand Wiring.

There passing on this information to another has gone viral on another forum and many are converts to the use of it, again it is seen to be used at all interfaces.

There is only one Commercial offered Tonearm using PC Triple C as the Wands Internal Wiring.

What is missed is that the Two Wire Types, D.U.C.C and Triple C when used in combination, work extremely well.

The perception of PC Triple C, when introduced is that an additional clarity is present, it is offering a reveal further into the recording. In use it is able to make the OCC wire be perceived as it has a smearing effect when A/B compared. The difference detected is similar to the level that OCC could show the unattractive elements of an OFC Cable as a comparison to OCC.

D.U.C.C, in comparison to PC Triple C, has a similar perception of Clarity, but does have a Hue of Richness, which for me is an attraction. The hue of richness referred to has been picked up on a few systems I have loaned the Cables to. It is detectable during A/B comparison.

I know in one system the PC Triple C DIN>RCA Phono Cable was preferred over the OCC one in use. In another System the D.U.C.C was preferred in use between Phonostage and Pre-Amp' with a Silver Wire Cable used on the Tonearm DIN>RCA and between SUT > Phon'. 

I can’t explain how a combination of Cables in use will benefit another system, but in my set up, the D.U.C.C is used between CDT>DAC and SUT > Phonostage.

The Cart' Tag Wires are PC Triple C, the SUT windings are Copper.

The DAC and Phonostage both have PC Triple C Power Cables.

There is no reason why Acrolink with the D.U.C.C Wire in use will not thoroughly impress, but the real edge for a system might be found if the two above wires are used in combination.

If an individual really wants to experience an uplift in performance and one that is not imagined possible on a Single Ended Cable, use Low Eddy RCA connectors on both Cable and Chassis. I have heard PC Triple C used with this methodology; it is the method I am to adopt. This is a notable experience, indelible for all the right reasons and if the effect on my system, is as heard on the system it was demonstrated on, it will be a game changer. "

_________________________________________________________________

I hope this is off help with your inquiry.

I will be coming away from Single Ended Cables and commence using a Balanced System. At present the only Connectors for Both Chassis and Cables are found with an OCC Male / Female connection.

Maybe one day a PC Triple C Male / Female connection will become an option.   

 

@pindac

Thanks for your post but it appears PC-OCC is still being used by many long after Furukawa decided to cease the production. Interestingly, the PC-Triple C came from FCM (Fine Chemicals & Materials), part of the Furukawa Group and its wholly owned subsidiary.

“FCM proposed copper for audio and video applications, which is obtained in a process similar to forging. As emphasized in the Acoustic Revive company literature, one of the first companies to offer complete cables using this kind of copper, the new process is clear reference to the Japanese tradition of forging swords. Copper wire is repeatedly compressed (struck), which reduces its volume by 70%. The strokes are made at a certain angle and direction, determined through experiments. This process is not so much concerned with removing copper impurities, as these would have been eliminated at an earlier stage, as with achieving the most compact arrangement of individual crystals, bridging the transitions between them, and therefore reducing a diode effect, i.e. uncontrolled electron hopping between the adjacent crystals. The repeated compression of copper also pushes out the air and oxygen molecules present in the material. The obtained copper has been called PC-triple C, from ​​Pure Copper-Continuous Crystal Construction. In the final production stage, the conductors are subjected to an aging process, where larger crystals coalesce with each other, forming monocrystalline areas”.

I am pretty happy with my current Japanese cables which uses PC-OCC copper but do have plans to try a cable using the PC-triple C in 2023. From what I’ve read, the PC-Triple C sound more open, energetic in the midrange and in the treble than with the PC-OCC cables. The bass is not as dense but more articulated. What has been your experience with PC-Triple C? And what brand you’re currently using? 

 

These Wires are Superseded now, the Company that Pioneered the production of this Wires Formation under license, have long abandoned the Method.

The Wire now on offer is no longer drawn as per the OCC design.

Now the wire is formed through being forged and is a purer/softer wire.

Have a look at Furukawa's PC Triple C or PC Triple C/EX. This wire is now found in many Brands Cables. 

Alternatively, Mitsubishi produce an ultrapure/ultrasoft wire known in Audio Usage as D.U.C.C or Stressfree depending on whose Cables the wire is found in. 

I can assure you, in the same way I dropped OFC for the use of OCC. I no longer use an OCC Wire Cable as a result of these wire types. The New Forms of Wire are extremely attractive in use.  

I'm glad more people are finding out about OCC single crystal wire, but now there's even a bigger game changer that's better then round OCC single crystal wire and that is rectangular OCC single crystal wire much better performance than the round very noticeably better there's only one company that makes it, Neotech, the two reference cables that they make are the Amazon which is the silver OCC rectangular wire and the Sahara which is the copper OCC rectangular wire, I like the Sahara interconnects better than the Amazon because they use both copper and silver as opposed to just all silver in the Amazon and I can tell you they bettered my Harmonic technology pro nine SE speaker wires and my Harmonic technology magic ll interconnects, I could hear deeper into the sound stage it was blacker everything was better not cheap though but well worth it, check them out.

Recently made a pair of vh audios v-twist with eti connectors...im rounding the suggested hrs burnin (which is a lot) and nothing lacking here...just nice clean,no hyper detail...great sounding pairing.

I added WireWorld OCC cables when I ordered my Emerald Physics KCIIs, which I replaced with EP 3.4s and replaced the speaker to outboard XOs to WW OCC jumpers, after a few weeks of listening to shitty supplied jumpers. No contest

HTH

I had high expectations when I tried a pair of OCC copper interconnects. They were very transparent and hyper-detailed but lacked body. There's obviously more to cables than just conductor material.

Lately, I've been preferring the Iconoclast OCC XLR cable over my favorite for many years, the Audioquest WEL. 

It does all the right things with regard to frequency extension, silent backgrounds, bass weight, smoothness, etc but I'm finding I'm really liking the way copper contours the sound in a different way versus silver.

As others have pointed out, OCC copper does sound better (transparent, detailed and smooth) than anything I’ve tried.

My system is wired with Audio Envy cables which uses OCC wire and priced reasonably.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-envy-dang

Hi dougthebiker, I am a fan of Audience Cables, particularly their AU24 SX.  From their site:
OHNO cables are named after Dr. Atsumi Ohno who invented the method of manufacturing mono-crystal wire, a highly sophisticated process of producing wire without the crystalline barriers found in all conventional wire. Whereas copper typically exhibits thousands of crystals per meter, as audio signals move through this maze, energy is lost at every crystalline juncture. 
I tried several brands and several levels of cables before deciding on Audience.  I certainly did not try many of the myriad of cables available, but through advice and auditioning in my home, I especially liked the smoothness and resolution of the AU 24SX, even better in my system (to me) than their extremely lauded Front Row line, which I felt had a bit of glare.  I do not care for Silver in my wires, as I find the OCC VERY smooth.  Thanks! Ken

I changed all my cables to OCC ones. Less gritty, smoother and more depth. But it always depends on the implementation and geometry. I use the Ramm cable with air dielectric for power. Very happy with the result. Neotech power cords are also very good. (more slam/less open). I also changed all my connectors to pure copper/tellurium ones. Bigger bottom end, blacker background, enhanced s/n ratio. 

like akg_ca said, OCC is an indicator, but not the ultimate deciding factor on how well a cable sounds.  There are other considerations, such as type of metal (copper/silver), strand size and bundling versus solid core, geometry, shielding, terminations, etc.

That being said, OCC copper and ultra-high purity copper are generally much better sounding than normal manufactured copper, which can be OFC (or oxygen free copper).  The smoothing of wire metal surface also plays a factor in signal clarity.

Nothing new here ... OCC copper cables have been around now for a long time and there are many cable manufacturers offering them.
As far, in general,  OCC cables “sounding better”, there is no silver bullet upgrade and improvements solution here because,

(1) OCC brand1 can (and frequently will... ) sound “different” ( = not necessarily “better”....) than OCC brand2, and/or compared to silver cables and/or hybrid options.

(2)audio improvements ( ... or not ) are entirely listening room and system dependent .

(3) there are many other cable material options that work well or better (depending on the bespoke system in question) including, inter alia, silver and hybrid copper / silver offerings.

(4) Conversely, all the upgraded cables in the world may not invoke audio improvements in certain systems ... full stop.

Until you actually roll up your sleeves and hands-on experiment yourself in your bespoke listening arena and on your system, you wont know .