Is anyone else looking forward to the reviews coming out on the Gustard R26 r2rDac? I am interested to see if it can compete with the Holo Spring at a lower price point. How will it stand up to the other r2r dac’s out there right now. It does present well and is feature rich right out of the box. Is it a true proprietary resistor board or is it off the shelf and tweaked? I know the other Gustard equipment is well received and liked so my hopes are high for this as well.
@whartI have the X26 Pro and took advantage of the Black Friday Sale to buy the R26 which came Thursday. I hooked it up to my LAN and Roon recognized it without any problems. I burned it in for about 36 hours before I listened to it this evening. The X26 is connected to Roon through a Denafrips Iris DDC and a Raspberry Pi connected to an Etherregen. The R26 is just plugged into an ordinary ethernet cable connected to the same router as the X26.
So first impressions are basically WOW. It is a significantly different sound from the X26. I will need to spend more time listening critically to make sure that first impression holds but the R26 has a lot more presence, much bigger dynamics, and quite a bit more top end definition which surprised me. In many ways it sounds more like vinyl. Only downside so far is that midrange vocals might be marginally less weighty.
I was prepared for the differences to be much smaller, especially since I bought the X26 Pro at the same time as I got a Pontus II and I tore my hair out for 6 weeks trying to hear any differences and decide which one to keep. The difference between the X26 and R26 is immediately apparent. I'll report back after my first blush of enthusiasm wears off and let you know if I still prefer sound of the R26.
Give the r26 more burn in time before being too critical. The first real sign of what this dac can accomplish will come in at 100 hours. Then after 200 hours it will be in full stride. Mids for vocals will be in the room with you, bass will be tight and punch you in the gut, highs will sound fantastic with a very little roll off and I mean very little to the point you have to strain to notice. I do not like to make the “like vinyl” comparisons, what I like most with my r26 is I have to drag my self away. I can spend hours at a time listening and the music just flows. You are right with the large sound stage. For me it is like my Vandersteen’s are four time large than before. Dynamics allow you to hear every instrument right in its correct placement. My favorite setting is nos off slow filter through lan input. Down side to this is Currently using mconnect and it sucks, I will be replacing how I access lan very soon.
@pinwa (and @sgreg1) -thank you for the impressions and additional thoughts. Just out of curiosity, when this DAC processes DSD, does it do so through chips rather than r 2 r?
I can’t recall off the top of my head. I am on another thread for the r26 that gives this level of detail. I would post the link but I know agon would pull it. I know the access to the r2r ladder is determined by the input used. Not the sample rate. People adding an external clock will by pass internal clock snd it goes straight to the ladder.
@whart I'm guessing @sgreg1 is referring to the thread at Head-Fi which is almost 2300 posts long. Many of the posts are fairly technical so that might be a better place to ask your question about DSD.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the R26 changes with more burn in. I was just excited about how it sounded after only 36 hours.
@pinwa I have to ask why you wouldn’t also feed the R26 with the Iris? When I fed my R2R DAC with the Iris and an i2S connection the difference was quite remarkable. Seems like the R26 is fighting with one arm behind its back at this point.
@soix Three reasons. 1) The Raspberry Pi endpoint might be the weak point in my streaming setup so directly connecting the LAN to the R26 was attractive. 2) The Iris is incompatible with the I2S pinout of the R26 so that mode of connection is unavailable. 3) With the X26 the Iris makes very little difference vs a USB connection direct to the Raspberry Pi. The difference is small enough that it is hard to hear much less decide that it is better. The only reason I use the Iris is because it "ought" to be better, not because I know that it is better.
get on the head fi discussion. There are details on the I2S pin configuration for r26. In simple form people have had to short pin 15. There are other DDS units that work with r26.
@pinwaI find it hard to believe the Iris works with the X26 but not with the R26. That makes no sense to me, nor does it make any sense that the i2S connection makes little difference over USB. What HDMI cable are you using for i2S and how long is it. i2S doesn’t work well over distance and my i2S cable is 6”. Also, what’s the rest of the equipment in your system? Make an apples to apples comparison or this is pretty useless IMHO.
@soixThe Iris connects to the X26 through AES or Coax. I2S doesn't work. What does or does not make sense to you makes little difference to me but rationally the better the DAC the less important the DDC should be. In my experience the Iris made a big difference with the Ares II, a little difference with the Pontus II, and very little difference with the X26. There is a guy on the Denefrips Facebook page that tested dozens of I2S cables and his conclusion was that longer is better.
The Iris connects to the X26 through AES or Coax. I2S doesn’t work.
@pinwa Then why not connect the Iris to the R26 via AES/EBU or SPDIF?
The Raspberry Pi endpoint might be the weak point in my streaming setup so directly connecting the LAN to the R26 was attractive.
Then why not hook up the X26 this way as well? Either way at least you’ll be doing an apples-to-apples comparison. Not sure why you wouldn’t want that type of comparison.
There is a guy on the Denefrips Facebook page that tested dozens of I2S cables and his conclusion was that longer is better.
No offense to “a guy on Facebook,” but using a longer HDMI cable for i2S, assuming he was using HDMI cables, makes no sense given that an i2S signal degrades rapidly over distance given the way it was designed. If he was using USB cables that might make some sense I guess but not sure about how i2S travels through USB so maybe someone here might chime in on that.
@soixI have no interest in spending my time doing an apples to apples comparison of the X26 vs the R26. I was careful to specify the configuration of both DACs to let the reader draw their own conclusion. The only thing that is relevant to me is my impression that the R26 in the configuration I intend to use it it sounds better than the X26 in the best configuration I have found to use it. I have no idea why you feel you can "task" me with answering your questions but I suggest you buy both DACs and write an exhaustive review of your own if that is what you are interested in.
I have no interest in spending my time doing an apples to apples comparison of the X26 vs the R26.
@pinwaGotcha. Makes total sense. Can’t even believe I had the nerve to even suggest such a silly thing.
I have no idea why you feel you can "task" me with answering your questions
Hey, let’s be clear here — I don’t give one great God Damn what you do or don’t do, but understand your perception of both DACs is heavily flawed given the different setups and therefore is of little/no use to anyone here. I was just trying to give a helpful suggestion that maybe you hadn’t considered and that would be more useful and interesting to those of us here who actually think apples-to-apples comparisons are a worthwhile thing. How was I to know I was talking to an ostrich who’d rather just bury his head in the sand instead of just simply changing a couple connections and perhaps learning something useful? My bad. Sheesh.
Just a few hours with the Gustard r26, and realy convinced it’s a very good partner with my system (and ears). The r26 matches with my Luxman 595 axII. I use it as dac for my Naim cd player, for my Apple mac book pro (usb).
Is the Gustard R26 the most capable DAC coming out of China? Anything else considered top of the line? Has anyone connected a 10 MHz master clock to the R26? I have a SoTM sms-200 neo ultra without clock input. I am trying to decide if I want to replace with the same streamer with a 50 MHz clock input and get a new DAC with 50 MHz input as well. Or simply forgo SoTM altogether and replace with the Gustard R26 streamer / DAC in one unit.
@kairosmanHow are you liking the LHY OCK-2? I was thinking of getting one of the CyberShaft master clocks.
@zeusodinthe LHY makes a significant difference. To me in my system EVERY tweak so far has yielded positive results (including good cabling) although I must say the most audible tweak was switching from copper to fiber optic from the switch to the server/streamer.
But my system is $60K and very resolving so the results of tweak components like clocks and linear power supplies etc. can be heard. BUT I can’t say whether these tweaks would make the same kind of difference in your system. One thing to keep in mind is I haven’t used the R26's streamer module but word is that it’s better than the USB input and almost on par with the I2S (the input I use).
The R26 is a great buy and I will keep it in rotation. Right now I have a Lampizator Baltic 4 in the system, a tube DAC, and in most ways I prefer it, but then again it’s $7K so it SHOULD be better.
Understood. I have Legacy Aeris speakers and a distributed bass array ala AudioKinesis. I decided to go with 2 REL 212/SX in front and 2 Rythmik E22 for the rear. So it's possible that my hardware might improve from additional tweaking. Another audio friend came over this past weekend and said Don't spend another dime on anything before treating your room. I live in a large loft with concrete / brick walls and hardwood floors. So it echoes. That's my #1 priority now. When that is done, I will look into the DAC / streamer / clock issue. I think I will replace the SOtM with a version that has the clock input and then look at a used Esoteric Grandioso D1.
Did you consider spending the purchase price of the R26 only on a DAC since you are not using its streamer? Just curious. But if you have a Lampizator as well, you have DACs in rotation which is a beautiful thing! Lol. A friend sells the Lumin line of products. They are truly amazing.
Thanks so much. I might reach out again after finishing treating my room.
I want to replace with the same streamer with a 50 MHz clock input and get a new DAC with 50 MHz input as well. Or simply forgo SoTM altogether and replace with the Gustard R26 streamer / DAC in one unit.
@zeusodinIf going with the R26 I’d suggest getting a DDC (Denafrips Iris, Musician Pisces, Singxer SU-6, etc.) as in addition to re-clocking they also allow you to provide an i2S connection to the DAC, so you’re getting two significant benefits in one. I added the Iris and using the i2S made a huge difference from running SPDIF without the Iris. Just my $0.02 FWIW.
It’s important to keep the HDMI cable as short as possible as i2S wasn’t designed for distance and will degrade quickly, which is why I got the 6” Monoprice cable as it was the shortest I could find — and also a very cost-effective way to dip my toe in the water. I’m surprised by the level of performance so don’t feel a rush to upgrade the HDMI cable although I probably will at some point. I’ve heard from others that the HDMI cable doesn’t seem to make a dramatic impact on the sound, so there’s that. You could still add a separate clock later as most DDCs have clock inputs, but you might not feel the need after hearing what a DDC can do. Anyway, hope this helps at least somewhat.
Some guys actually have MULTIPLE switches because they believe reclocking the signal multiple times BEFORE a DDC/clock/DAC stack yields benefits - in this crazy hobby, I wouldn't be the least surprised if that is true lol!
A friend of mine is an integrated circuit designer specializing in network products for decades. I asked and was told that the main thing that happens when chaining switches is that you add latency (bad). So the sound probably changes. One of these audiophile situations where any change is perceived to be good.
@zeusodinIm sorry, I’m not familiar with your DAC so I can’t say. I’d certainly reach out to Esoteric and ask them what input is best and go from there. If they say their DAC works best with an i2S input I wouldn’t hesitate to get a good DDC, but at that level I’d be looking at the Denafrips Hermes or Musician Leo given their better clocks. If i2S is the best connection according to Esoteric, then hell yeah I view a DDC as mandatory.
The majority of R26 users using lan connection are finding nice improvements adding a fiber media converter run off a lps. You can add this all in under $200 very much worth the try. If you don’t like what it does for your dac mover it over to a lan tv set up.
@kairosmanI have the R26 and recently became one of those guys with a couple of inline switches. I found inserting a modestly priced Netgear GS108E (albeit Alpha Audio recommended) upstream of my already very good LHY SW-8 gave a nice improvement in soundstage focus and tightened up the bass of my R26-based system. I have yet to try FMCs but have found the R26 LAN input / renderer (I use its HQPlayer NAA) very sensitive to and able to resolve all upstream ethernet chain improvements I've made. This includes for e.g. adding Quartz Acoustics grounding boxes on my server, switches and router. I have a couple of Ifi LAN iSilencers (galvanic isolator & USB regenerator) on order to further optimise things after some early very positive feedback from a few folk with already well sorted systems.
I concur that adding a decent clock like the LHY OCK-2 to the R26 lifts it to another level, particularly when used with a high quality clock cable like the 50 ohm Harmonic Technology DC III or better. When the R26 LAN input is selected I understand a connected masterclock will be used by the R26 to clock both its renderer and DAC sections. This may explain in part why I find the sound of R26's HQP renderer superior to that of DDCs I own like the U18 and SU6, even when the U18 is also externally clocked.
@kereru understood, but why would Gustard only have the LAN input fully utilize a Masterclock signal? What is the logic of that? So the I2S is simply slaved to the DDC's clock and ignores the Masterclock I spent $700 on?
@kairosmanWith respect I didn’t say the R26 uses an external clock to reclock its DAC section only with the LAN input selected but that when the LAN input is used it also reclocks its streamer/renderer section. So it’s just there’s a there’s a dual benefit in my use case.
I’ve verified through careful AB’ing (ext clock on/off toggling) that the R26 does audibly benefit from an R26-connected external clock when fed I2S or S/pdif from the SU6 or U18, irrespective of whether DSD Direct or PCM NOS is on or off. From recollection others on Headfi found the same with the R26 and the other Gustard *26 DACs that share the K2 clock synthesiser.
@kererusorry my mistake for misconstruing what you said. BTW I've heard from more than one person that LAN and USB are clocked in the DAC while SPDIF AES I2S are clocked by the streamer/server. I have yet to come across a clear, precise and comprehensive description of a DAC's operation, have you?
I'm seriously considering the R26 for my second system. I previously had the Denafrips Ares II that I liked but had to sell it when I sold off my second system to take care of other unexpected expenses. But now I'm back at putting together the second system in my home office once again. Since it's a second system, I don't want to spend more than $1500 on the DAC. I have two questions ...
1. Does the R26 provide meaningful, noticeable improvement over Ares II? I know it's all subjective but still want to hear from someone who has compared the two.
2. I think the R26 can double as a streamer as well. How would you compare it to Bluesound Node (the streamer aspect only) or other streams in the sub $1000 range? Is it Roon-enabled? For some reason, Gustard doesn't highlight the streaming function as much. Is it because it's more of an afterthought or do you guys think it can compete favorably with similar priced streamers?
The guy at stereonews.net compares the R26 favorably with the MUCH more expensive Denafrips Terminator 2, so by association it’s superior to the Pontus ll.
@soix Thanks for the reference. I need to read the review by stereonews.net at some point. One thing I will say though is that Gustard can definitely take a design lesson from the likes of Denafrips or Holo Audio. The R26 looks like a cheap VCR from the early 90's. I know, I know ... it shouldn't matter as long as it sounds good. But still ...
Wondering if anyone compared the streamer section to standalone streamers in this price range.
@arafiqYup, I hear ya man — looks like straight-up ChiFi, but I trust the guy who wrote the review, and in the end it’s what’s on the inside that counts unless you’re an insecure audiophile who needs the bling to show it off to friends. I’m not one of those.
@Kairosman - from my reading the conventional wisdom is most DACs when fed sources like I2S, s/pdif and AES that contain a synchronous word clock will use that embedded clock signal untouched so theoretically at least a master clock connected to the DAC wouldn’t be used to reclock the stream so would be of no benefit. And that conversely with asynchronous sources like USB and ethernet they are of necessity reclocked by the recipient DAC/ streamer and so if the DAC/streamer is being slaved to a master clock you’ll get the benefit of its greater temporal precision. Indeed from memory Gustard’’s R26 product blurb that appears on vendors’ sites is consistent with this referring to the USB and Ethernet inputs being reclocked.
So far so logical. But then it gets rather less clear cut with:
a) a clarification Gustard provided over email to a Headfi member (copied verbatim below, ambiguous punctuation and all) that suggests - depending on how you read the punctuation - that all the R26’s inputs benefit from an external clock with NOS & DSD DIRECT OFF (ie over sampling ON) but with NOS/DSDD ON only the asynchronous inputs, USB and ethernet, benefit; and
b) at odds with a) my observation from careful testing that there is a satisfying audible benefit of toggling an EXT Clock ON for I2S and s/pdif regardless of the NOS/DSDD setting. Fairly sure a number of other Gustard *26 owners who use I2S and NOS/DSDD also find a good benefit with an external clock. As to the mechanism of action/benefit from the external clock if these synchronous inputs are not buffered and reclocked (which would seem unlikely), your guess is as good as mine!
It has become apparent there’s substantial language barrier/translation error risk factor with any comms with Gustard, so a pinch of salt with all their comms and publications especially on nuanced technical points is wise. Eg. They accepted the manual had a translation error re DSD processing.
Credit to HF member MMWMM:
This is an answer from Gustard regarding the use of a 10Mhz external clock with the R26 and when its clock signal is used to reference the internal K2 synthesizer and when is not used.
“When playing PCM
1. PCM NOS: OFF
The improvement provided by the external clock applies to all R26 inputs.
2. PCM NOS: On
The improvement provided by external clock applies to USB and LAN inputs, IIS AES coaxial optical Bluetooth does not apply.
When playing DSD
1.DSD DIRECT: OFF
The improvement provided by the external clock applies to all R26 inputs.
2.DSD DIRECT: ON
The improvements provided by the external clock apply to USB and LAN inputs, IIS AES coaxial optical Bluetooth does not apply.”
@arafiqI use the R26 streamer with Roon and HQplayer, faultless operation and sounds great. I use HQP upscaled PCM768 & DSD512.
I prefer the sound of the R26 internal streamer to my Ifi Zen Mini (+ IFI Power X) > Gothic Audio pure silver Outsider USB cable > Gustard U18 DDC > BJC FE I2S > R26. I actually found using a USB direct connection from my server to the U18 (albeit with the Holo Titanis USB regenerator plugged into the server) to be better than the Zen > U18, and closer to but still some way behind the R26 internal streamer. With an external clock in play the gap widens.
That said I know of a few folk with better streamers (like the Ifi Neo Stream) or servers (such as with $2k JCAT USB & ethernet upgrades) who prefer I2S and/or USB connection to the internal streamer.
@kairosmanNothing more exotic right now alas. My only point of comparison was a head-to-head with a similarly priced and since returned SMSL AK4499 VMV D2 DAC last year, which the R26 beat handily. Oh and a Topping E50 they both destroyed. R26 & D2 were using the Zen/U18, Roon/HQP and an Ock-1.
All I know is that my R26’s sound has improved out of sight since then with network chain improvements, better external clocking and signal grounding (I can’t recomment Quartz Acoustics Premium grounding boxes highly enough). If the ’stock’ I2S input R26 YT reviewers compared favourably with R2Rs up to maybe the level of the Pontus/Venus and the Spring 3, then I reckon (he says, perhaps a little optimistically) in my more optimized setup it’d now surely soar well past them, if perhaps not quite as far as your Baltic 4...
and in the end it’s what’s on the inside that counts unless you’re an insecure audiophile who needs the bling to show it off to friends. I’m not one of those.
I don’t think it’s fair to assume that audiophiles who care about how the equipment looks are necessarily driven by the need to ’show it off to friends.’ Many audiophiles, myself included, care about the way our equipment looks. If I’m listening to my music I also tend to look at the speakers, amps, racks, etc. At least for me it adds to my enjoyment if the view is equally pleasing to my eyes. I’ve put in a lot of effort to make my listening room aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes). It is important to me that the equipment fits in with the overall vibe of the room. But I can assure you, it has nothing to do with showing off to anyone else.
@kereruThanks for the wonderful feedback. Since I already have the Bluesound Node 2i in my second systems, I'm debating if I should go with only a DAC (e.g. Denafrips Pontus 2), or get the R26 and sell the BS Node. I like the fact that you can use a DDC with both DACs, i.e., R26 and Pontus.
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