Hi inna, yes I have an Innuos Zenith MKIII streamer on the way (it is back-ordered). Just as the Zenith MK III is apparently better than the Aurender N10 at close to half the cost, I’m hoping to find something that compares with Nordost Valhalla 2 or AQ Firebird at lesser cost. If it can’t be found, I’ll go for the expensive deluxe brand name stuff. But something tells me I may get lucky with the cables and find one that works well for a lesser cost.
Gryphon Diablo 300 Has Arrived: First Impressions.
After a very long and drawn out search for a new amplifier for my B&W 803 D2's, which included in-home demos of McIntosh (452/C2600), Bryston (4B3), SimAudio Integrated's, and others that I tested in-store, I finally landed on the Gryphon Diablo 300. With the optional DAC module and phono board.
I feel lucky to a short trip away from one of the seven Gryphon dealers in North America, or I would not have found my amp. Some who are familiar with the Diablo may see my list of other amps I tested and think, those brands are not in the same league as Gryphon. And, after having painstakingly scrutinizing every demo component, I would have to agree they would be right. Those other brands cannot even come within striking distance. But here's the thing: from a pricepoint perspective, I'd be spending the equivalent amount of cash with those lower end brands once you factor in a pre/power amp, power cables, and interconnects - and it wouldn't sound as good as the Diablo. So, while expensive - the value is tremendous with the Gryphon Diablo 300. Others on this board have confirmed their opinion that I'd need to spend double on seperates before I could better the Diablo's performance. Including Whitecamaross, OP of the well known and ongoing "long list of amplifiers..." thread. I recognize that my search did not include uber-integrates from T+A, Dartzeel, etc. No way to consider these were I live. But I think that the Diablo is likely better suited than these alternatives for my use-case, with the power, current, and ability to drive my speakers in a large open space with a vaulted ceiling.
So I picked up the Diablo and it came in a great wooden crate that is smaller than you'd think, and has very handy clips that allow each panel of the crate to come off one panel at a time. The DAC was not pre-installed, and came in a seperate box. The phono board was also seperate, and was sold to me at a discount as it was a pulled from the shop's demo Diablo 300. I had expressed interest in installing these modules myself, so the shop said they'd let me have the experience of opening the brand new Diablo. Having installed the module and board (without incident), it was a little tricky. I would not suggest others try this unless you have some experience working with electronic components, PCB's etc (I do). And for safety you definitely want to ensure the Gryphon's massive and many capacitors have fully discharged prior to working inside.
On to the sound, out of the box with 0 hours run-time. The Diablo was a bit of a gamble for two reasons: 1) The dealer does not do in-home demos, and 2) The closest speakers I could test with to my 803's were the B&W 802 D3's, and 3) No returns or exchanges. Having fired up the amp and connecting to my digital source, right off the bat the music was thoroughly engaging. And here's the thing: When purchasing new gear over the course of 20 years or so, I've not once purchased any equipment that I've loved in the first month. This is the first. On my 803 D2's (or Diamond, whatever B&W calls this generation), I found that for the first time in all my amp-testing I was not listening for things like "dynamics","timing", "linear response", "imaging", but rather listening to people playing music. All instruments and voices have this solid and real quality to them. An example: with the tambourine at the start of Reckoner by Radiohead, you can sense the impact of each strike of the tambourine against the musician's hand. The same effect is there for vocals, with backing harmonies having a texture to them I've never heard. Another way to describe this effect is that rather than simply hearing the instruments, you are aware the sound is caused by something physical happening. Like with snare drums, it is more tangible than with any other gear I've heard. I've always thought that trailing notes or chords at the very ends of songs are just there as musicians need to signify that the song is over. But now, there is a presence and drama and texture to these endings I've never heard before. Just as I said earlier, I'm no longer listening for things like "dynamics" and "timing", but rather hearing the musical manifestation of these things. The midrange is absolutely beguiling, as one pro-reviewer put it. I think this may be partially due to the DAC based on my in-store testing I did. So far I've only tried the USB input at home. I am quite sensitive to harsh mids and highs, especially on poorly recorded hard rock, and can find this type of music very grating on hifi equipment. But not on the Diablo. The mids and highs are smooth. There is no sign of any harshness at all. But counter-intuitively, at the same time, there is so, so much detail to the music. Everything is revealed, in a presentation that is paradoxically smooth and engaging. Is this an analytical amp, or a musical amp? It's both. Don't know how they pulled it off. The bass is one of the Diablo's most striking qualities. Just as with the other instruments, the base is tangible, highly detailed and deeply textured - it creates a groove in the music that is so satisfying. I didn't know my speakers could do this.
This amp absolutely has a voice to it - it is not a "just the facts" amp. So those who are looking for that sort of amp may not like the Gryphon. But for me, this is exactly the sound I was looking for. Some have said there is a slight "dark" quality to the presentation, and I thought that sounded negative. But I understand now and have come to realize that this dense, detailed, and rich smooth voice is exactly what I was looking for.
In terms of how it performs on my speakers vs with the 802 D3's in the store - there is quite a bit of detail, and soundstaging, that is not present now. But on the flip-side, I actually like the overall presentation at home even more, and the detail that is there is still incredible. And, I'd expect more detail to emerge through the burn-in period. Even now, I'd be totally happy if this is the best it gets. In the store, I found the high level of precision of the 802 D3's just a tad distracting. For example, in the store, if I turned my head slightly, I could hear the entire soundstage shift quite dramatically. My 803's at home don't have this issue.
I have not finished upgrading accessories yet: I am running this amp on inadequate sub $1K Van-den-hul D352 speaker wire, and my source is a Mac Mini with Audirvana/Tidal Hifi. I do have it running with a brand new AQ Hurricane power cord. My Mac will be replaced by an Innuous Zenith MKIII but it's on backorder. Might be a month or two wait. Don't know what I'm going to do about speaker wire quite yet. I'd like to try Valhalla 2 just to see if it is worth it!
Overall, extremely happy. Expect things to get even better with the dedicated music player, upgraded speaker wire, and some more hours of burn-in. One more thing - I don't think that Flemming Rasmussen designed this amp. Batman did. And just look at the remote - case closed.
I feel lucky to a short trip away from one of the seven Gryphon dealers in North America, or I would not have found my amp. Some who are familiar with the Diablo may see my list of other amps I tested and think, those brands are not in the same league as Gryphon. And, after having painstakingly scrutinizing every demo component, I would have to agree they would be right. Those other brands cannot even come within striking distance. But here's the thing: from a pricepoint perspective, I'd be spending the equivalent amount of cash with those lower end brands once you factor in a pre/power amp, power cables, and interconnects - and it wouldn't sound as good as the Diablo. So, while expensive - the value is tremendous with the Gryphon Diablo 300. Others on this board have confirmed their opinion that I'd need to spend double on seperates before I could better the Diablo's performance. Including Whitecamaross, OP of the well known and ongoing "long list of amplifiers..." thread. I recognize that my search did not include uber-integrates from T+A, Dartzeel, etc. No way to consider these were I live. But I think that the Diablo is likely better suited than these alternatives for my use-case, with the power, current, and ability to drive my speakers in a large open space with a vaulted ceiling.
So I picked up the Diablo and it came in a great wooden crate that is smaller than you'd think, and has very handy clips that allow each panel of the crate to come off one panel at a time. The DAC was not pre-installed, and came in a seperate box. The phono board was also seperate, and was sold to me at a discount as it was a pulled from the shop's demo Diablo 300. I had expressed interest in installing these modules myself, so the shop said they'd let me have the experience of opening the brand new Diablo. Having installed the module and board (without incident), it was a little tricky. I would not suggest others try this unless you have some experience working with electronic components, PCB's etc (I do). And for safety you definitely want to ensure the Gryphon's massive and many capacitors have fully discharged prior to working inside.
On to the sound, out of the box with 0 hours run-time. The Diablo was a bit of a gamble for two reasons: 1) The dealer does not do in-home demos, and 2) The closest speakers I could test with to my 803's were the B&W 802 D3's, and 3) No returns or exchanges. Having fired up the amp and connecting to my digital source, right off the bat the music was thoroughly engaging. And here's the thing: When purchasing new gear over the course of 20 years or so, I've not once purchased any equipment that I've loved in the first month. This is the first. On my 803 D2's (or Diamond, whatever B&W calls this generation), I found that for the first time in all my amp-testing I was not listening for things like "dynamics","timing", "linear response", "imaging", but rather listening to people playing music. All instruments and voices have this solid and real quality to them. An example: with the tambourine at the start of Reckoner by Radiohead, you can sense the impact of each strike of the tambourine against the musician's hand. The same effect is there for vocals, with backing harmonies having a texture to them I've never heard. Another way to describe this effect is that rather than simply hearing the instruments, you are aware the sound is caused by something physical happening. Like with snare drums, it is more tangible than with any other gear I've heard. I've always thought that trailing notes or chords at the very ends of songs are just there as musicians need to signify that the song is over. But now, there is a presence and drama and texture to these endings I've never heard before. Just as I said earlier, I'm no longer listening for things like "dynamics" and "timing", but rather hearing the musical manifestation of these things. The midrange is absolutely beguiling, as one pro-reviewer put it. I think this may be partially due to the DAC based on my in-store testing I did. So far I've only tried the USB input at home. I am quite sensitive to harsh mids and highs, especially on poorly recorded hard rock, and can find this type of music very grating on hifi equipment. But not on the Diablo. The mids and highs are smooth. There is no sign of any harshness at all. But counter-intuitively, at the same time, there is so, so much detail to the music. Everything is revealed, in a presentation that is paradoxically smooth and engaging. Is this an analytical amp, or a musical amp? It's both. Don't know how they pulled it off. The bass is one of the Diablo's most striking qualities. Just as with the other instruments, the base is tangible, highly detailed and deeply textured - it creates a groove in the music that is so satisfying. I didn't know my speakers could do this.
This amp absolutely has a voice to it - it is not a "just the facts" amp. So those who are looking for that sort of amp may not like the Gryphon. But for me, this is exactly the sound I was looking for. Some have said there is a slight "dark" quality to the presentation, and I thought that sounded negative. But I understand now and have come to realize that this dense, detailed, and rich smooth voice is exactly what I was looking for.
In terms of how it performs on my speakers vs with the 802 D3's in the store - there is quite a bit of detail, and soundstaging, that is not present now. But on the flip-side, I actually like the overall presentation at home even more, and the detail that is there is still incredible. And, I'd expect more detail to emerge through the burn-in period. Even now, I'd be totally happy if this is the best it gets. In the store, I found the high level of precision of the 802 D3's just a tad distracting. For example, in the store, if I turned my head slightly, I could hear the entire soundstage shift quite dramatically. My 803's at home don't have this issue.
I have not finished upgrading accessories yet: I am running this amp on inadequate sub $1K Van-den-hul D352 speaker wire, and my source is a Mac Mini with Audirvana/Tidal Hifi. I do have it running with a brand new AQ Hurricane power cord. My Mac will be replaced by an Innuous Zenith MKIII but it's on backorder. Might be a month or two wait. Don't know what I'm going to do about speaker wire quite yet. I'd like to try Valhalla 2 just to see if it is worth it!
Overall, extremely happy. Expect things to get even better with the dedicated music player, upgraded speaker wire, and some more hours of burn-in. One more thing - I don't think that Flemming Rasmussen designed this amp. Batman did. And just look at the remote - case closed.
191 responses Add your response
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/cables/vip-reference-series/
I would probably add Purist 30th Ann. USB cable to those and that should do it. |
nyev, I have Clarus Crimson speaker cables. I've compared them to Shunyata Sigma and Alpha, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, AQ Oak, AQ Redwood, AQ ThunderBird Zero, AQ FireBird Zero, and Audience Au24 SX speaker cables in my system. Overall I prefer Clarus Crimson to everything I've compared them to. I did find AQ FireBird Zero to be a tad clearer, but overall I still prefer Clarus Crimson. For XLR cables I really love the new Wireworld Platinum series 8 over everything I've heard in my system. Of course there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences; therefore your findings may differ. In my humble opinion, if you haven't already added acoustic room treatment I suggest you start there. |
Thanks ricred1. I'm going to contact Clarus and see how I can get a demo of the Crimson in Canada to test against others on my list. Or see if they have a buy and return policy. One thing that may be a concern about the Crimson is, based on what other reviewers have said, I may want a slightly more forward mid/upper frequency presentation than the Crimson. However, I am currently biased as with my current inexpensive van den hul cables, I am getting a slightly over-rich and bottom heavy sound with recessed mids and treble (but still amazingly detailed thanks to the Diablo). I know for a fact this is related to my current cables, as that is exactly why I bought them - to tame harsh and thin sounding equipment that I had prior to the Diablo. Also contributing to this is likely that I am currently using rubber dome feet supplied by B&W with my speakers, rather than the spikes. I have a new hardwood floor and am working up the courage to replace the rubber domes with spikes. I know you can get floor-protector cups/discs for spikes, but I fail to see the logic in that approach as the protectors are still not coupled with the floor the way spikes would be. So eventually when I am certain of placement I will spike them to the floor. Which eventually I'll need to do again when I upgrade my speakers (in a few years now..). Back to cables: despite my current urge to run out an pay an grossly unreasonable amount for some Valhalla 2's to pair with my Gryphon, I am going to be patient with cables and invest time to test carefully, including well-reviewed cables that are less expensive like the Clarus. I'm also thinking it may make sense to wait until my streamer finally arrives (it is back-ordered) and is broken in, so that I am testing cables with a complete system instead of with my Mac Mini. In the meantime, my system still sounds great! |
nyev, How about these: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/black-cat-cable-matrix/ They seem to be very well regarded and start less than $700. I may give them a try. |
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I am going to be patient with cables and invest time to test carefully, including well-reviewed cables that are less expensive like the Clarus. I'm also thinking it may make sense to wait until my streamer finally arrives (it is back-ordered) and is broken in, so that I am testing cables with a complete system instead of with my Mac Mini." I think you're smart to take your time. It's so important to listen to cables in your own system and let your own ears decide. I don't find the Clarus's mid/upper frequency presentation laid back in my system, but all systems/rooms are different, as well as what we define as forward and/or laid back. |
Regarding room treatments, I’m lucky to have what me dealer says is an ideal situation in my open concept living room. High vaulted ceilings, and no corners next to my speakers. Room to move the speakers out in the room. Listening position 2/3rds of the way into the room. Natural dampening from soft sliding door blinds behind listening position. L-shaped couch which helps with dampening from the one wall which possibly could use some added dampening as it is a high wall. Maybe this circumstance presents its own challenges; I am not an expert on room acoustics. Just fired up the Diablo today - it still has that great new electronics/heater scent when you stand over it (when it was brand new the scent filled the room) especially when you first turn it on after it’s been off a while. It’s just great, Gryphon should bottle that and sell as an air freshener accessory! |
Okay I thought the burn in period for my Diablo must have been complete for a while now as I hadn’t been noticing changes for a while. But today I noticed some significant improvement in the upper midrange, which has become lighter crisper and more airy. I notice this especially with snare drums which I’ve been paying close attention to since day 1. Overall slightly more pleasant. I saw another Diablo owner mention that the amp has about a 50 hour burn-in period and that the DAC module requires 200 hours according to Gryphon. Haven’t seen this substantiated; just going by what someone else posted. I’m at about 174 hours. I’m really noticing a difference now! Then there’s the crazy 350-400 hour burn in that my AQ Hurricane cord supposedly needs. Unbelievable if there is still a bit of improvement to go yet; I thought it sounded fantastic on day 1. |
Ricred1 and others, I have a question. I’ve reached out to Clarus directly via email and they confirmed pricing of $1235 for the single wire version of the Crimson, and $1580 for the bi-wire version. This is a fifth of the retail price according to my research and what is reported in reviews. Thinking I should just proceed blind at this price. My question is, do I get the single or bi-wire version? Thinking this may be too good to be true. First, the customer service, while very prompt, is terrible in the way they communicate. Also, it is clearly set up for distributors, as there is distributor instructions in the email signature. I am wondering if the salesperson who responded is offering me pricing as if I was a distributor, by mistake. At that price, it could be marked up multiple times before getting to the retail price I’ve seen reported in reviews. Should I go for the biwire version? I‘m still confirming these actually come terminated, and what termination types. If somehow I don’t get what I asked for, I have the email thread and I can always get my credit card company to reimburse me if I get the wrong thing. They don’t do demos and my question on return policy was ignored. |
Yes, 8ft. I know it’s still a lot of cash, but at this price (which seems way less than the prices I’ve seen reported) I’m thinking this could almost be considered temporary as I continue to do more methodical testing, over the course of say, a year. Bear in mind my current cables cost less than $500..... I will ask again about the return policy. Totally agree one should never buy HiFi gear unheard, but at this price, for a cable this well reviewed... |
I've yet to read a single review, from a forum poster or pro reviewer, who had anything bad to say about the Clarus Crimson. Everyone's reviews seem to be extremely positive regardless of the equipment - unusually so. And multiple individuals have said this cable has bested Valhalla and even Odin from Norsdost, which seems crazy. But. After reviewing sonic descriptions, people have described this cable as being rich, musical, big harmonics, vs Nordost which is fast and transparent. I feel my system with the Diablo is currently very rich, musical, with big harmonics already, and as such may benefit from something more along the lines of Nordost, with yes, expensive silver wire. So back to plan A - being patient and testing all cables I can get access to after my streamer arrives. But for those who want a deal on what appears to be a very highly regarded inexpensive cable - try going to Clarus directly! |
nyev, " I've yet to read a single review, from a forum poster or pro reviewer, who had anything bad to say about the Clarus Crimson." I don't have anything bad to say about them either. I have a decent system that I've posted on Audiogon and have compared very expensive cables to Clarus Crimson. Me still owning Clarus is a testimony to how good they work in my system. The question is how well will they be in your "system"? |
LOL! Yeah, when not in use it can be used as a fairly nice space heater too! I've gotten into the habit of not leaving mine own because of that fact, but when I wake up I leave it on for about 45-hour to get that nice pre-warmed sound! It puts out a fair amount of ambient heat. I'll just echo the other respondents when it comes to SC's take your time, audition as many as you can. Nothing worse than having a house full of depreciating speaker cables you don't love and have lost 20-40% of the value in reselling them afterward. |
Yeah, good advice all. And yes Inna I’ll be taking your advice too and seeing if I can get my hands on some Gryphon speaker cable, as well as other premium cables. I am open to testing all cables I can get my hands on that are well reviewed. The only thing is, I’m not sure they can get the demo in. I’ll check! |
nyev, I don’t, but I think the full retail price of VIP 1 Meter pair of interconnects is something like US $2500, so speaker cables should probably be $4k-$5k depending on length. But I don’t guarantee that I am correct, and prices might change. Still less than, say, Purist Dominus Diamond, I guess, which is something that I would also try. Wywires Platinum is $3k for 8 feet pair and 30 days money back. I just don’t know if it applies to Canadian buyers as well. Tchernov Reference MK II is something like $3k pair too. I have in my system Purist Neptune, Tchernov Reference MK II and Wywires Silver series interconnects not speaker cables. Tchernov and Wywires belong to the same sonic signature group, Purist Neptune is very different and my absolute preference for digital recordings and sources. With analogue source...it depends, still the Neptune in most cases. I’ll just mention another brand, very expensive and highly reputable - Echole, but I am not sure that it would be the best match for Gryphon, still if you have an opportunity - try them. |
Just to put it into perspective, I compared the $14K Audioquest FireBird Zero to the Clarus Crimson and overall preferred the Clarus. My wife and I actually listened to it with our own ears. If price was the only criteria I would have preferred the AQ FireBird. Far too many people make negative comments about cables/components that they never listened to. It does both the potential customer and company a disservice. Just listen and let your own ears decide. |
Yes, I’ll be hopefully testing well reviewed lower priced cables (Audience, Clarus, etc) as well as the firebirds/Valhallas of the world. There are many that prefer the sound of lower priced cables. Am very interested in the Gryphon too, which of course falls into the high priced camp! What I test will depend on what I can source for demos. Will start making calls this Saturday if I don’t get too busy with other weekend chores. |
nyev, My system: Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amplifier, Jeff Rowland Corus preamp, Chord Dave DAC, Antipodes DS GT music server, Monitor Audio PL500 II speakers, Wireworld Platinum series 8 XLR and USB cables, Audioquest Hurricane power cords all every component, Clarus Crimson speaker cables,Torus RM20 power conditioner, and JL Audio F112 v2 subwoofer. |
With my Gryphon, I was worried and thought I may not be totally happy with the sound, as with most gear I’ve bought in the past usually I’m not entirely happy, especially in the first month. This hesitation was due to testing the Diablo with different speakers to my own in the dealer listening room. Sounded great in the shop, but I was not, absolutely 100% certain. Turns out my slight reservation was entirely due to the current line of B&W speakers which I find very capable but a bit thin sounding. I knew this going in, which is why I was okay proceeding with the purchase given I have the prior gen B&W’s which sound fuller to me. I do have specific preferences with sonic presentation and the Diablo 300 is EXACTLY what I was after once I got it home. Really didn’t expect that to happen given I hadn’t tested at home with my system and there are so many variables, so yes it was a bit of a gamble given there were no returns or exchanges.... I suppose the lesson is you can get a sense of how a component will perform at home in your system PROVIDED you have a sense of the characteristics of the paired components in the “foreign” system. Just as I had a very clear up front sense of exactly how the current line of B&W speakers in the shop demo would sound for me, and I knew up-front that they wouldn’t 100% give me as rich of a sound as I was looking for. Given that I had this up front knowledge, testing with these was of far more value than testing with something totally unknown to me like Sonus or Focal. I need to get acquainted with more speakers and gear in general to better inform me in the future when I’m testing new gear paired with other equipment that I don’t own. Thinking I should plan a trip to my Gryphon dealer just to listen to the Sonus Fabers and Focals, while I have the chance and while they have the demo Diablo on the floor. Ricred1 did you get to test each each component at home in your system first? I tested a few amps at home from two other dealers that supported in-home demos, but nothing really stood out and I was at a loss until I met the Diablo and took a gamble. This hobby can be stressful when it’s decision time.... |
After many mistakes purchasing equipment based on others opinions, including reading magazines, I realized this hobby is about how much I want to spend and my preferences. I had a home audition of every component in my current system prior to purchase. I still love to listen to different components and systems, but only as a means to educate myself. |
Hey Nyev, I don't know if these cables would interest you. The guy sells some on CAM Canuck Audio Mart and he has a site too. I have no affiliation with him. I haven't tried any of his cables either, but they look well made. I think he has a buy and try policy...if you don't like them, just return for a full refund. He make a 4.5 AWG power cable NRG cables http://nrgcustomcables.ca/ Here is his CAM ad for the 4.5 AWG power cable https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649517001-nrg-custom-cables-the-5-45-awg-grounded-copper-sle... Or his other CAM ad for a 7.5 AWG power cable https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649517009-nrg-custom-cables-the-1-cs-75-awg-grounded-copper-... His prices are in Canadian dollars and our dollar is only worth about 75 cents US now. So if you live in the US that is a bonus. Cheers |
Hi nyev You can check out his feedback on CAM and read back through some of it, will give you an idea. I have been a CAM member (same name) for around 10 years and I have never heard anything bad about his cables. You know how word gets around and I have never seen anything bad in the forums on CAM. I think he has been selling his cables for a few years. His prices are quite reasonable which that in itself would probably lead some people to believe they cant be any good. |
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Congratulations on your purchase Nyev. I’ve just recently took delivery of a 300 without any demos! My speakers are 803D3, I’ve got roughly 2 hours on it. It sings just as you have mentioned above. I’m hearing things from the 803D3 speakers that I haven’t heard before. I’ve been listening at volume 25, it only goes up to 42. I’ve set my safety volume control limited to 32. What volume do you listen at during normal listening? Don’t worry about power cords, make sure your room acoustics is sorted first. Sort the big elephant in the room before you start tinkering with “snake oil”. I’m playing my source through an Audyssey Pro equaliser, there is a night and day difference in sound. As every sound coming out of the speakers is given equal chance to shine. Maybe try a Dirac processors, you’ll no regret it! “And no, unfortunately my dealer did not inform me that my demo Gryphon phono board was discontinued” It might be an issue if you come to sell it (if you ever do), the buyer might be looking for the current version of the phono stage. “In short, I am enjoying this amp so much that I find myself wanting to buy another just in case something happens to it after it is eventually discontinued” This amp will last you a life time, don’t worry you’ll be six feet under before you need another one! “Maybe the D’Agostino Momentum integrated but that is far more expensive.” Don’t go there! Don’t listen to it if you can’t afford it, you’ll want to buy it! The sound will haunt you forever until you get one- so don’t do it! “When my Innuos streamer finally arrives (hopefully in early May), I may experiment with a lower end power conditioner” I’ve tried a power conditioner briefly- Isotek Titan 2, it seems to throttle the dynamics of the 300. I need to have a extensive listen. But from first listen that’s what I’ve experienced. Maybe better on streamer as you have mentioned. I will try there next… I will investigate the ‘pop’ issue. |
Although it is built like a Sherman tank there might be the display and the bulbs on the front which might fail over time. Just wonder about the fluorescent display, are folk turning this off after adjusting volume etc. This can be set up via menu. Just that it doesn't last very long roughly 30,000 hours, about 3.5 years of continuous use. Over time it will start to dim and need replacing. |
NYEVIf you want an even better combo than the Luxman 900 pre/power then you should look at the Gryphon Zena pre with the Antileon EVO power amp; better again - undoubtedly, considerably more expensive, indeed.The Diablo 300 is a runaway success worldwide as it offers terrific performance for the $$. BTW, its worth pointing out that an upgrade for the optional phono stage is available at moderate cost. The original PS2 had two loading options, the PS2-S has five loading options & a sixth option is to request custom resistors, almost any loading up to 1k from the factory. The upgrade kit is $300. |
Congrats Bubb! While the current D3 generation B&W's are fantastic, they may not be my first choice for my tastes. But I don't know of any amp they would sound better with than the Diablo 300! So far I've not felt a need for any EQ, I've tried to find equipment that avoids the need for tone controls, and haven't missed them since I was young when I did need it to compensate for poor equipment. Not that I have anything against EQ's. Maybe one will come in handy as my high-frequency sensitivity of my ears inevitably starts to degrade with age! I listen at different volumes for different contexts - if I'm working at home I'll set it at 15-16, after 10pm I'll even go lower so as not to bug the family, and on weekends typically I'll have it anywhere from 23-26, with 25 being the start of what I consider to be "loud". Never really felt the need to go beyond 26 although I've tried going to 28. Still can't believe how all sonic qualities are maintained even going way, way down to 11 or so - you can still easily pick out the "groove" and impact of the bass and all other details transients and dynamics. Inna if the Diablo 120 is even better at low levels, that would really be incredible. But I think I need the power too with my big room :) Bubb regarding the display bulbs, do you know they are specc'd to 30,000 hours continuous use? Is this at 100% brightness? I had previously set my brightness at 75%, but I'm now thinking about lowering to 50% (which is a bit difficult to read across the room)! My last amp had a similar display with individual lights making up the volume readout. On this amp over 20 years I noticed some bulbs were dimmer than others, for volume settings with numbers that were commonly used. Actually I noticed that dimming fairly quickly into the 20 years. But none went out or anything. Regarding my phono board, good point, but I'm not too worried as I can't see myself selling the Diablo. And I don't think it is worth double the cost I'll need to pay now to get the new one - I got the board at 50% off and it is never actually been connected to a turntable (including in my system as I currently have no turntable). So I can't really justify paying a bunch more for the new board which actually won't provide any material added benefit. Pohanlon thanks for notifying me of the upgrade kit for the phono board - my dealer had not mentioned that! I will ask. Also for anyone reading this interested in the Gryphon or other uber-integrateds - in retrospect I would to have liked to have tested the Musically Fidelity Nu-Vista 800, which I think is similarly priced. While all the reviews of that amp are very positive, I'd be surprised (or shocked) if it beat the Diablo. But this amp somehow escaped my list of candidates and there is actually a dealer that stocks it near me. There are just a ton of positive reviews for the Nu-Vista 800 amp and the sonic presentation is described similarly to the Diablo, but again, just one that might be good to try but I wouldn't expect to top the Diablo. |
The majority of folk are familiar with the sound they hear from their room and each room holds a unique signature- boomy bass, no bass, too much bass, bright treble, no focus etc. One or more frequencies seem to dominate the frequency spectrum, negating or smearing the rest of them. The sound equaliser helps to balance the sound spectrum by giving each frequency an equal chance to re- produce. It is also a partner friendly device, as putting up acoustic treatment is a no no in majority of living rooms. Audiophiles might disagree and say the purist sound path has to be met, this might be true if you have a ‘perfect room’. But in real life no one does! So losing a bit over gaining mega truck loads is something you can’t overlook. I too was sceptical and dismissed the idea of having anything ‘in- between’, until I discovered true equalisation in the frequency and time domain. They aren’t your bog-standard tone controls or a band equalisers of yester year. This stuff does some mathematics like fourier and laplace transforms behind the scenes. To work out the best response at your seated area. I’m the kind of guy who will give it to you straight- if a product doesn’t add anything or is rubbish then I will say so. No beating around the bush! I tried experimenting with connecting my Naim NDX2 directly through the Diablo, but I’ve found it dull and lacking, the stereo imagery, focus, instrument nuance, vocal clarity all go back into the 803D3 speakers. When I connect the processor everything comes to life, each bit of micro detail is heard, in the bass notes you can hear different notes and hear the emotion of the artist plucking them. The bass notes start and stop as they should do, no lingering, ringing, no boom. The artist is in your living room in front of you. You hear things that you have never heard before. It’s like it’s a new system! The difference is night and day. Let me say that again- the difference is night and day! You might say, hold on but I’m already hearing those things. You are hearing a difference from what you had previous but nothing like what you hear when the sound is correctly balanced. Having a balanced sound is what the artist wants you to hear- the way it was recorded is the way it should be re-produced in your living room. Have I got this wrong? Some people don’t like this as they question about their bass disappearing into the ether. They lose the one tone bass, the thump they use to hear. That’s because that is the type of unbalanced bass they have heard all their life. They are none the wiser, when they are introduced to the REAL sound- the way it’s suppose to be they don’t like it. The bass isn’t lost it’s just that you are hearing the finer grain of bass detail across the bass spectrum. The clarity, the quality, the impact, the impulse, the transients, the notes… The 803D3 is a step up from the previous version, all depending on how they are set up and what they are fed. They are very critical on source components. If you are looking for a Mike Tyson punch in your chest, this is not what they are about. In terms of clarify / midrange / micro detail they are excellent. If you have room then go for the 800D3, but for my room size I couldn’t fit either 802D3 or the 800D3. Again, these don’t give you the punch in your chest bass. That’s right you still hear all the bass notes at even lower volume under 10. I’ve taken it to 30 and no higher. Listening at this level is loud, not the kind of loud, that you say turn the damn thing off it’s hurting my ears. Or you start hearing distortion, sound just easily flows out, it’s not fatiguing. You don’t realise that you got it so high until you turn it off. Then you get that ringing in your ears as if you’ve been to a club! This amp is a different beast, you need to hear it to appreciate it. Unlike other amps when you turn the volume up everything gets boosted. With this amp you turn the volume up and you think have I turned it up. Then a loud passage comes in it catches you out, there is no holding back on the amps end. The amp will reproduce it the way it was recorded, if the recording has dynamics then it will give it to you- good and bad. Maybe the Diablo 120 has been ‘tuned’ differently as it lacks power of the 300, maybe Gryphon think folk will be listening at lower volumes? They have orientated it that way, But I think even if the Diablo 300 had 1000w per channel into 8 ohms, 2000w into 4 ohm, 4000w in 2 ohms. I can live with that too. (:- Having too much power is never enough! Diablo 120 & Diablo 300 aren't the same, meaning 120 isn't a cut down version of the 300. There is two separate display types used for the display. The main display is fluorescent, it doesn’t tell you the info put down in my previous post in a manual. I did a Google search and that is the estimated time these things last. So I’ve set mine up to go off, after a few seconds. So it lights up when you adjust the volume etc, when it goes off the blue led goes on to indicate. The rest of the display stays at the same brightness. It would be nice if you can adjust the brightness intensity when it comes back on I think it stays at 100%. Also if you can turn off all the lights bar the Gryphon logo in red. The other lights might be filament or led, the blue one is certainly led. Do you know if there is any documented text to say the amp runs in Class A over so many watts? It certainly runs hot, heats my living room up! One small niggle I have is why on earth did they make the front fascia out of plastic, for such an expensive amp. Over time it will end up getting scratched. I was looking for a custom screen protector (maybe overkill!). It’s good we can discuss our experiences here, keep posting! |
Excellent points Bubb - I’ve definitely had room issues in the past and can see how frequency correction count have helped. At this point I don’t perceive any issues with my current room. Regarding the amp display lights, I didn’t know you could set the “main” display to turn off after adjusting- thanks for this! I’d also be interested in how many watts this amp is Class A up to. I’ve only seen speculation, largely due to making assumptions due to the heat. This amp definitely will heat a smaller room but is not as hot as some amps get. Mine doesn’t get too hot to touch and is in a very open area with high ceilings so it is not a problem for me. Regarding the front plastic panels - I totally agree; I would have preferred this be aluminum. Bubb, not to draw your attention to this, but if you run your phone’s flashlight over the plastic up close, if your unit is anything like mine it will show some imperfections and whirls. Some of it was residue from the adhesive protector which I removed with a mild plastic surface cleaner. I’ve decided to be okay with the whirls based on the knowledge that this is bound to happen over time anyways. My black B&W speakers have the same issue. Even dust sitting on the unit over time will eventually leave little marks in the surface finish, and no matter how you dust it will leave minor marks. Again this is really only apparent if you shine a light directly on the surface and inspect up-close. Having said that, it is definitely a slight knock on Gryphon quality when everything else build-quality wise is COMPLETELY without fault. One note regarding scratches in the future - mild scratches can be easily buffed out with plastic polish. This can be a bit scary to do, and in my experience with my speakers’ finish it will remove minor scratches but leave very mild whirls that can only be seen when you shine a light directly on the surface. |
I home demoed both Diablos 300 and 120. The 120 seemed sweeter and just as “live” and detailed sounding in my small 11x14 ft room. But at just $3-$4K difference in price it made more sense to get the 300. For a large room it’s a no brainer though. They were recently running a special on the Diablo 120 to make it a more attractive deal. I did go to an all tube Vac amp and preamp because I preferred a little more “relaxed” sound but the Gryphons are world class electronics as far as solid state. Speaker wise I am extremely impressed with their Pantheon model. Just a little to big for my living space. |
Nyev, It’s not just if you have room acoustical problems, it sorts focus, impulse response, clarity etc. Worth investigating more so than power cords! Regarding the Class A, I read in a review somewhere that it was biased towards Class A. But I’m not sure if it is Class A over so many watts before moving to A/B. Like PassLab for example, I think it’s 10w for some of them. You must of went for the "fashion" finish for your B&W speakers. The piano gloss black, I went for the wood finish. The turbine head has those swirl marks from new you are talking about. I took a flash light to inspect them close up. I’ve been cleaning them with a pressured air can and a sponge wringed in distilled water- gently in one direction. This is the best way I have found as using a piano duster scratches the surface. Yours must be a nightmare as your whole speaker is piano gloss black finish. Plus the finger prints, especially guests who are magnetically attracted to touch, a nightmare! If I don’t use my system for a while I cover the speakers so they don’t collect dust. The other thing I’ve found is my music collection is going from the excellent sounding tracks to the rubbish pile. As the quality flaws of the recording are easily revealed more so than before. I am forever searching for a good engineered / recorded track. The thing is you can tell from the first note that the recording has been compressed or it’s a mass production quick buck type. I’m not a full time Beethoven 5th type of guy, I listen to rock, jazz, classical, dance- house, techno, country, opera, chart. Anything and everything! My palette is extensive, the problem is majority of these recording are compressed to the hilt. They are fantastic for mediocre systems, once you leave a certain point in HiFi it’s just continuous searching. Do audiophiles play the same tracks all the time, the ones that sound the best? This is crazy. Maybe I should sell and go back to where everything sounds fantastic! Happy listening. |
I would have picked the wood finish for my speakers if I could have. When I bought them, it was just after the D3 generation was launched. I wanted to like the D3 line as they were more detailed in the mids, but no matter what gear I paired them with the overall presentation was too thin for my tastes with not enough bass. So I went for the prior generation (which does not have the same level of detail reproduction), and was stuck with the glossy black as that was all that was left in all of North America at the time! At some point in the future I will upgrade my speakers, but no idea what I’d get. Maybe Sonus, Focal or Magico (which I’d worry may sound too thin like the B&W’s for my tastes). |
Nyev, I see, you had no choice then. I've never heard D2s so no idea what the bass response is like. I think you are right, the bass on these speakers isn't what it should be in terms of their relative size. The problem is the drivers they are too small. B&W have tried to compensate by using a large cabinet. Also the drivers are designed differently than the previous generation. Like pistons, it may give a smoother response but not the volume or intensity that is required. I have also found that majority of tracks don't really have the bass that sometimes you might think it has. The Diablo only delivers what is there and nothing else. For example see if you can get a hold of Princes Album- ”Art official cage”. Play the track- ”Art official cage”. Never mind if you don't like Prince, just listen to the bass section. Put the volume up to 23. What do you think? Did it surprise you? Is it intense? What I'm saying is that this album has been recorded better than some of the others. In a good recording things become 3 dimensional. The bass is more profound and has layers. In your D2 it probably sounds even better than what I'm hearing. Maybe I need to upgrade? Tomcy6, The system is fantastic, I'm happy where I am. The problem is with recording that have been mastered in a studio with lesser equipment. The average punter doesn't have hifi at this level in their living room. They expect that, these recordings are made to be played in low quality gear. In that type of gear I guess everything sounds fantastic. I'm disappointed that there is no industry quality standard. Every recording is at a different quality level. The tracks that do sound good sound amazing. Some tracks / albums are so bad, they end up in the rubbish pile. I do get your point, but I can't go backwards. Once you've heard what I hear you'll always be wanting in a lesser system. I just need to search for good quality recordings. Which might take a long time to build a library. |
Bubb I think your B&W’s are fantastic and the D3 line offers so much more in the way of detail and soundstage. Just not as warm as I like and not enough slam for me in particular. That goes for the 802 as well, so I don’t think it has to do with the size of the driver. B&W designed the sound like this for sure - to offer a highly resolving and focused sound. Many would prefer the D3’s to the D2’s I’m sure. Also, the bass is there and it is very detailed and focused, it is simply restrained and doesn’t offer the presence I am looking for. The D3 speakers are great speakers, and can certainly do a lot more than other speakers can. It is just a matter of taste; by no means am I saying they are not good speakers. I’ll give that Prince song a try, but I’m sure I will hear less on my D2’s than you hear on your D3’s. But, my guess is that the overall presence on mine will be more richly delivered. I’ll let you know what I hear. When driven by the Diablo, I hear WAY more bass on my speakers than i’ve heard with any other amp that I’ve tested, and it is also very well defined and detailed bass. I also find that with poor recordings, even though you can hear the flaws I find that with the Diablo it is far more tolerable than with other amps I’ve tested which can make such recordings harsh or shrill sounding. |
Nyev, Slam is what I'm missing, from these speakers. As you have correctly pointed out. They do have excellent midrange and treble and are maybe speakers for a classical connoisseur. Rather than someone who listens to all types of music. The amp is not at fault here, even for not so good recorded tracks it is forgiving. As you have said it does not make them bright or shrilling. They are at least listenable. I did hear the 803D3 with a Mark Levinson 585 and I was blown away by the bass content it could produce. Playing the ”chain” by fleetwood Mac, I don't get the same with the diablo in my living room. The start of the track, the kick drum. Then I was thinking maybe it was a dominating bass region that was getting amplified by the dealers room acoustics. On my balance system drum is there, but sheer visceral impact / slam is missing. Even if you turn Diablo up, there is no punch in the chest. It does give a very clear presentation without dramatically over emphasising the kick drum. I remember even hearing the 800D3, they had bass but no impact bass. |
