I made a deal: either I spend money on a motorcycle (dangerous in her eyes) or audio. Now I don't have to sneak anything in at all. |
I try not to have them in the same room listening to audio! |
08-11-02: Tireguy,
I would not agree more! |
Packaging. Try packaging. For instance, this morning I discovered this thread but my wife was in an especially 'chatty' mood. I listened for a while and then I cranked up my Audio Aero CD player wired to my McIntosh 2102 tube amp and put on Santana's 'Supernatural'. Even though I am also a San Francisco boy(Santana is from here-abouts), I don't go out of my way to play Santana. I transferred the music to the living room. As expected, the chat started to go away and now my wife is in the living room reading her People Magazine(I pay for the subscription). Oh, for those of you who might know me form another thread, I wired my system both into the living room and my office for a 'number' of reasons. In this case it allowed my to finish this thread. So, lesson +1: Go out of your way to play her music. You don't have to fake liking it; she always knows....(.) Lesson #2: When making a bigger change, give her something to expect that she can have some control over. When we bought our home the back yard is quite big and the back two-thirds was an undeveloped hillside. I terraced the whole thing and I have quite the orchard and vegetable garden. She never goes down there. However, just outside the kitchen door is a 10x25 foot rose garden(all raised beds) with 42 differant roses. She does go out there. I spent last weekend weeding the thing.....ouch!) So, my next project is to do an addition to the front of our house because I want my own a nicer office/music room. I am calling it the new 'library/comupter-room'. So, this means the computer is moved from a smaller room off from the kitchen that will become a charming breakfast room--she can't wait to have what will obviously become 'her room'. Remember, it is all in the packaging. |
Hey, anybody know that Albert Collins song, "Master Charge?" It's on "Ice Pickin'" Okay? Nuff said. Buy the Jota! |
First: Honestly assess the situation: If the fact that your amp puts out 1200 watts per at 8 ohms doesn't draw even the slightest hint of interest from you significant other, drop that line of conversational openers like a hot potato. You'll only dig a deeper hole with each new technical pronouncement, and may eventually cause her eyes to keep rolling around her head without ceasing - Kind of like the black hole vortex intro to Twilight Zone. Don't laugh - I've seen it and it's not a pretty sight. In fact, you can probably draw on previous experiences with your car to determine if she will buy this one.
Second: If you can get away with this one, go for it. "Honey, you don't really want to know." If she says - "Oh yes I do", go to option 3 - post haste.
Third: Get her involved in the decorating side of the hobby. I have a friend whose wife dismissed the whole HT concept as a colossal waste of money, until she learned of the decorating possibilities. Now she's bugging my buddy to get more, bigger, faster, louder, brighter.... so she can make the HT of her dreams! Be careful, this may unleash a genie you can't put back in the bottle.
Fourth: And this is no bull. Set the system up so she can push one or two buttons and have the thing running. It's how I justified the Crestron. Honey' I've made it easy -see?
But as others have widely shared... if you can make this a family passion and not just yours....you'll have a lot more success for all the right reasons. |
Count your blessings people. I now have an "ex-wife" who gets the "Maybe, I should take him back to court" look in her eyes whenever she notices something new when dropping off the kids. On a positive note, I do get to buy the toys now (new job) that I couldn't afford then. |
Hmmmm, I have not been here for a while..
TWL:the first reply never made it....
So I will type a second one.
I hear you about the checkbook etc.....
But if I had to go deaf in order to keep my wife......I would! I would smash it all, burn my two copies of Amused To Death, my Krall, the Stones, Floyd, Sting.....ALL of it...and give it all up for her. I would listen to 128 MP3's with what little hearing I had left, if any!
For that matter, I would do the same for my second best friend, Gumby, my sheltie! (thats where my name comes from on here by the way.)
Tunes are cool. My system is WAY cool. But I have not been able to cuddle up to my pre-amp like I do my wife.
The last time I tried making love to a line conditioner, I was in the hospital for a week! D/A converters dont hug you during your sons school play.
Cartridges wont go fetch a ball in the yard and listen to your every command. In fact, turntables tend not to be loyal at all. Even thought they can be a part of relaxation, they tend not to come over to you and give you a lick on the side of your face when you are stressed out. Speakers dont follow you to the houseboat for the weekend either.
I hope you are able to find what you are missing someday!
If you found the right one, there would be no question in your mind either. |
would that make it a tri-amping situation? Always wanted to try that... |
Not many responses to this lately. My wife and I and one of her friends are listening tonight. Who knows where the goosebumps will lead. I will not be listening for equipment artifacts tonight....... |
I love watching sports, particularly basketball. I used to think that it would be nirvana to find a woman who was as avid a fan as I was. I'm now happily married to a woman who is at least tied for Most Apathetic sports fan in the world - she not only couldn't care less about any sport, she has no idea what's going on in the world of sports. I realize now that this is, in fact, ideal. We interact on lots of topics and activities - there's no need for my passion to be her passion, and in fact, when I'm avidly watching a game Sunday afternoon, she's fine with giving the kids a ride someplace, or anything else that's needed.
Another time, I was painting a house I lived in when I was single. I was standing back at one point admiring my progress and I thought, "It would be really great if there was somebody here to share this progress with me." That was followed by the thought, "If there was, we'd probably argue about what color to paint it." It was precisely at that moment that I probably made the most progress in understanding the tradeoffs of relationships.
At this point, it doesn't matter a bit to me whether my wife has any interest in audio systems, music, or any other arbitrary pasttime I might enjoy. If she suddenly got interested, I would embrace that as well, but assuming she never does, that's fine. I don't care if she thinks my music is too loud for her tastes, or that I'm "crazy" for spending the amounts I spend on it. There's two sides to everything, and the other side to this attitude is that I don't have any obligation to understand, embrace, or spend time on any of her pasttimes that don't genuinely interest me. There's plenty of stuff that we do both enjoy to spend any energy torturing each other about the ones we don't mutually enjoy. |
This is a very simple question. The answer has been shown to me dozens of times throughout my life. And, yes, I am still not married. The basic reason is that when you are spending time, money, and attention on the stereo system, you are not spending that time, money, and attention, undividedly, on her. It has nothing to do with the stereo system. I've had this result with car hobbies, sports hobbies,etc. The bottom line is: What's hers is hers, and what's yours is hers. You will not stray from this concept or she will find someone else who will "toe the line". Needless to say, I don't "knuckle under" to stuff like that very easily, so I remain unmarried. On balance, I'd say I'm lucky, because all my married friends are going through divorces and losing their houses, and everything. They adjusted their lifestyles and priorities to suit the wife, and in the end, they were told,"I think I can do better" by their wives. You may not think you can "upgrade" a woman, but the woman sure as hell thinks she can "upgrade" from you. And her eyes are open to it every day. But, not till she sucks every last drop of blood out of you, first. And, has the next "victim" firmly in the sights. And the older you get, the worse it gets. At least in the teenage years, you have the "off chance" that they might actually fall in love with you before they "get wise". By the time they are in their 30's and 40's, forget it. They're dating your bank account. They measure their control capability by how much they can swerve you away from your central "core interests and values". If you resist, you are in the dog house. If you continue to resist, you are out the door. Notice, that they never complain that you spend too much time cutting the grass, or painting the house(improving "her" assets). It's the ability to influence what YOU really want to do, that is the guage of her control level, and that is why it becomes the issue. In her mind, it is only one short step, from there, to losing control of the money, and that is unacceptable. That's it. You may consider it harsh commentary, but we're talking about some very harsh, cold behavior. Just look how often you see on the Audiogon threads about "If I get speakers bigger than a shoe-box, I'll have to get divorced. Is this rational? No. That is because the speakers are NOT the issue. The issue is control. Mercenary? Yes. Heartless? Yes. That is the root of this issue, that nobody really wants to talk about. |
Jeeze, maybe I am just lucky or I try much harder (If I am really working at it with much more effort that anyone else than I must be doing it subconciously or my wife is feeding me subliminal messages while I sleep). My wife enjoys listening to my audio system, but she does not care what parts it consists of. She just likes to listen. She does not give me grief when I want to make a change of equipment. I should confess however, that I do not change equipment often (No equipment neurosies here). I have only had four speaker systems since I began this audio interest in 1975. The first speakers being the KEF 104ab's.
Anyway here is the last week of my life, balanced between audio and my wife. The audio week began with the arrival of a batch of records from Acoustic Sounds. While we were listening to them my wife made the comment that we should get away for the weekend. The next day, without any further prompting, I made reservations for the weekend in Cape May, NJ. We ate, we shopped, we drank, we stayed out late ( caught a great band named "Black and Tan") returned to the hotel and made "UGH-UGH" noises. We both had a great time. She appreciated that I did something for her, namely getting away for a weekend. The moral here is to think (no!, not just about audio) and not to be selfish.
Oh and just to show that appreciation works, and I know some of you will love this and others will scratch their heads in amazement. As we were driving home from Cape May, on Rt 73, I was being a little devious and intentionally slowed as we approached DeSimone BMW. My wife looked at me and said "I wondered why you chose to take this route." She then said she had no intention of walking around the lot of a closed car dealership. As you can imagine I was a little dissappointed. My wife then said that if I was truely serious about a new car we should go back when they are open so we can do something about it. We are going back this week. Had my eye on a dark green Z3 for a while.
|
Slawney; I just took Detlofs' recomendation, first, I had to run for more salt, then I had to read it a few more times while I tried to get my brain to wake up enough to obsorb that level of intellegence.
I feel your pain. Sounds like quite a pickle you were in- while in the process of trying to upgrade your woman, your stereo got downgraded in the process.
And then while taking in your wisdom, I had a nightmere epiphany; what if, given that women are women, and given she was for me the wrong type, and she was an audiophile, what would happen if I tried to switch amps, or cables? would I be in for it? What if she couldn't hear second order distortion? What if her new component obscured detail? Would I be allowed to change VTA? Would I have to work overtime to try to get equipment that was so good, so expensive, that we could both live with it in order to try to save the sound AND the marriage? WOOW!
Whew, I'm back. I would like to retract my statements on points for being an audiophile, and comparing stereos to women. I'm with tireguy-how a woman reacts to our hobby is an indication of things to come. It's the interest in what we have created that is interest in us. The Ozfly hit the nail on the head, it is a two way street, and we should take their advice:
Women are not stereos. You can't upgrade them. We can't add or subtract resisters or change cables to get them to sound the way we want. When the system requires attention, tubes or adjustments, we can get to it whenever with no harm done. People and stereos both have thier advantages.
I'm curious, did you get them back? did they sound the same? How much damage was done? |
Basement, I can't imagine being in a relationship where my partner doesn't support my passions; or where I don't support hers. Music can and should enhance relationships and become a part of them -- the music, gear and expenses need to fit into the flow of your journey together. The gear is not the competition, it should be treated by both parties as a vital augmentation of the relationship. Keep looking and you'll find someone who feels that way and wants to support you as much as you support her; like Tim, I feel really great when my partner brags about the sound (equipment is the necessary evil to get the music right). |
Basement- fwiw I don't hang out with girls that don't express even the slightest interest in the rig. I over heard my latest interest bragging to her friends on how great my stereo sounds and looks; needless to say I felt very good. If they disapprove or don't mind it any attention I don't mind them any attention, a relationship is about mutual respect and admiration and I ain't given up this hobby- so I save us a lot of time. I just can't imagine women not encouraging music in your life, they always seem to love the fact it is my interest. You just have to know when to listen to the rig and when to shut it off(or at least turn it down) and listen to her, listen to stuff she likes(sometimes) and do other things that interest her, once you have that down its a piece of cake- my problem is finding one that is worth the investment of time. There's a million fish in the sea and I must have met half of them- gotta be gettin close! |
Basement, you will hardly find one of the female gender, who is both the woman one would dream of and a true and dyed in the wool audiophile. Why? I suggest you read Slawney's post above..with that proverbial pinch of salt, mind you. The point where I think he's right, is, that we males rather cling to objects, to the other gender, relationship is important. So if we relate more to our hobbies, compared to HER, well then mostly there is fire in the house and the hobby is quite rightly seen as a rival and opposed against.
Besides, you don't need your "significant other" to be an audiophile at all. What you need is a music lover and if you're lucky, she will lend a kindly ear to your efforts in the true sense of the word, be a friend and a critic as well and more often than not, your relationship will deepen and be enriched with and through the common enjoyment of music. |
I know that this forum is supposed to be about audio and such, and not a counseling session, but as I can see the two are obvious related. I feel compelled to share my experience.
Presently, my live-in girlfreind's property is sitting in my driveway, and I can't play a blues record because I removed my clavis dc from my turntable for safety reasons.
One place where it all went wrong, is one day I brought home a piece of equipment, I was happy about and in a good mood with my new purchase, and the sense of joy that I shared with her was met with obvious disapproval and disappointment. It soured the experience. Why did I buy if I was going to have a bad experience, or, why do I have her here, were what I think stupid questions going through my head.
It's good to have a sense of humor. Life is fun, and it's fun to evan play things out with a sense of humor.
We all have disagreements about things, big and small, that can affect how we treat our hobby(s).
For me, I don't need for a spouse to be into audio, I don't need one that doesn't care about money, but evan If they don't care about sound or what I just did to my turntable, or what a bargain I got, I would want them to care about my happiness. When you love someone, you have a desire to tell them about things that make you happy, evan if they aren't interested. You like to see them happy, evan if you could care less about what it is that makes them so.
Furthermore, I find this to be a healthy hobby. Listening to music, to me, is far more fulfilling than watching t.v., I can also do things while I listen instead of being occupied on the couch, wacthing a screen. I can engage in conversation, and music fills the soul whereas t.v. fills the mind. And what woman would not want her man doing his thing, playing with his hobby THERE, where he can be with her and share his happiness, and be THERE for hers? That seems INSANE!
Do we have to share all the same interest to enjoy each other? I think not. I don't think we really need share each others passion in certain interest to benifit from that passion.
My freind just told me that I need to find a woman that feels the same way about me as I do about stereo equipment, they're out there. That's shallow. I think I need to find a woman that my stereo can be happy with, 'cause I don't want to be shallow and not consider my stereo's feelings. It doesn't deserve to be treated like this.
Would I be shallow if I said that a woman could have extra ugly points if she was an audiophile? |
Well, I don't know what you were talking about, but that is exactly what I meant.... Mint grown fresh, soaked into the oil you rub on.....
You mean you don't TASTE it??
Oy Vey!
Now how does that dull the senses? |
Just wanted to clarify one thing in the event there was any mis-impression. When I refer to, ummmm ....., other things.... I mean things such as ... oh, Neutrogena Body Oil, edible undies et., etc. to excite and enhance the senses.
The use of Herb, as Gumby suggests, only dulls the senses. That is unless we are talking herbs such as Cilantro or Wasabi, when incorporated into a nice piece of pan-seared salmon would do just the trick.
Oh, one word of caution to the equipment dudes out there. The Neutrogena body oil is not for use as a cable treatment or any other demented purpose. It is to be used by you and your wife and/or girlfriend, or husband and/or boyfriend, as the case may be, to be spread on each other. I include this stuff in my list of inexpensive tweaks.
I wholeheartedly recommend the Neutrogenia oil for anyone who has not tried it. I mean, really... seriously, this stuff is wonderfull, even if you are not listening to music.
David |
But what about the quality of the herb??
Are you allowed to tell your wife you find there to be a skunky flavor to this batch??
Oh, I forgot.....we were not supposed to talk about that. |
D maver.... wonderful post. I was nodding and laughing all the way through. You hit the nail on the head with your statement "Listen to music , damit, not equipment".
sounds like you got it figured out :) |
I agree with Angela's advice (7-22-01) Get your wife interested in listening. That is what I did. And not listening in the sense of "gee honey don't the new cables sound better" (ie, don't be an equipment geek). Listen to music , damit, not equipment. Put music on that she likes and for krisake, listen to an entire recording without jumping up to adjust something.
Also a some wine and snacks help. I have a dedicated listening room that has a lock on the door. We go to the room with the bottle of wine and some .... ur...um... oh, better leave that part out. But anyway,we put on some music, turn the lights low and lock the door (don't want kids getting out of bed and walking in unannounced, do we )and, shall we say, let the music carry us away. Which is what music is supposed to do. Oh, vaccuum tubes do indeed have a romantic glow.
This is what the listening experience should be. It should be about enjoying the music and incorporating it into you life. Not sitting with a bunch of fat, old audiophiles that all need hair combings, wondering if the new swithcplates make the mids to strident. Enjoy music, enjoy life, have fun. |
My wife has allowed me to upgrade my equipment but without having a knock um drag out fight. She does not understand the magic of music and how it is important in my life. With that said We are going to have some remodeling on the home and at this time she can spend the money the way she wants to. A tit for a tat and happiness can be found. Compromise can work wonders
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Tim, my friend, don't EVEN think about following Bob's advice. What are you crazy? Doesn't Gumbydammit's approach sound much mo betta? so young, so much to learn.... :)
aj |
Stop with the emails guys......
NO MY WIFE IS NOT AVAILABLE! |
Honesty is most important. Secondly, cut a deal. I get a _______ and you can get a _______ . Hopefully your spouse will have a passion about something in life. |
20k in the last 18 months, I finally bought her a Tag watch for the last valentine's day...anytime she starts in, I merely ask her the time and she settles right down!!! |
A dozen fairly simple approaches to this issue are listed below. For those of you who do not immediately perceive the connections between the following technical procedures and the installation, evaluation and adjustment of new audio equipment, I suggest the empirical approach -- try them, see whether they work for you, and use those which do.
1 -- Take your wife or girlfriend out to dinner or a movie about once a week. Ask her what restaurant or movie she wants to go to, and then go there without argument. Regardless of whether the food or the movie's plot are any good, tell her that you enjoy spending time with her.
2 -- Buy her flowers occasionally. Don't wait until you have ticked her off about something, and then try to make floral amends. Buy her flowers for no particular reason at all. You don't have to buy expensive ones, either. Just figure out what her favorite color is, buy flowers that color, put them in a vase with some water for her, and kiss her on the cheek or the back of her neck.
3 -- Even if she is an intelligent and professionally accomplished woman who is more than capable of handling auto maintenance on her own, keep an eye on the tire pressures and mileage of her car. When the tires need some more air, or it's due for an oil change, go take care of it yourself instead of telling her that she needs to do it. When you bring it back, tell her you just wanted to make sure that she was safe.
4 -- Do NOT buy her lingerie from a store with a catalog featuring airbrushed photos of surgically enhanced models under 25. Instead, buy her a good-sized gift certificate to a women's clothing store featuring attractive but not excessively stylish clothes whose prices are higher than she usually spends on herself. Express pleasure with and compliment the ensuing purchase.
5 -- If she looks upset about something, ask her what's wrong. Then shut up and just listen. Even if you disagree with what she says, even if it makes you so angry that steam comes out of your ears, just shut up and listen. When she is finished, don't respond. Just tell her you'll think about it. Then do think about it for at least a day before talking to her about it again.
6 -- When you're upset about something, don't tell her what a bad person she is, or how she always does this, that, or the other thing. Just tell her that it makes you unhappy when she does whatever it is, without casting aspersions on her motives or character.
7 -- Even if she doesn't look upset about anything at all, ask her occasionally how things are doing, and listen attentively when she tells you.
8 -- Ask her for some advice or suggestions about something, like how she thinks you ought to handle a problem with one of the kids, or how she wants to decorate one of the rooms, and let her know that you take what she says seriously. Try doing what she suggests, and then telling her how well it worked and what a good idea it was.
9 -- Sit down with her at some point to discuss the family budget, and reach agreement on some specific biweekly or monthly figure to be saved in a "toy account" for future purchases. Wait until you have enough money saved up in the account to pay for your next piece of audio equipment, so that you're not buying it on credit. Do your best to buy equipment whose price is reasonably proportional to other things in your life. (If your audio system costs more than the tuition, room and board at your oldest child's college, some reconsideration of priorities might be in order.)
10 -- If you're going to get a new piece of equipment, trying to sneak it in may be counterproductive. She'll probably notice anyway, and be annoyed even if she doesn't say anything about it. Tell her what you plan to get, and why. Unless she acts particularly interested or knowledgeable, keep the identification and explanation brief and non-technical. A couple of sentences in plain English is good. Multiple paragraphs in technobabble is bad. Make sure that she knows that the money to pay for it is coming out of the "toy account," and that there's enough in there for it.
11 -- Exercise self-restraint regarding the number, scope and cost of structural modifications which you make to your primary residence for reasons of acoustical improvement or oscillatory damping. Remember, they've rebuilt Avery Fisher Hall at Lincoln Center several times now, and they still don't have the acoustics quite right. If Bolt, Beranek & Newman couldn't make one of the premier concert halls in the country come out perfectly, your chances of accomplishing better results with fewer resources may be somewhat limited, and your spouse doesn't sleep in Lincoln Center every night.
12 -- If your wife or girlfriend is accepting, interested, knowledgeable about or involved in audiophile equipment, and willing to sit with you and listen to music on your equipment, you should go to church on Sunday (or schul on Shabat, or your personal equivalent) without further delay and express your gratitude for the unusual blessings which have been bestowed upon you by the grace and generosity of your benevolent Creator. |
It has been my experience that trying to cope (read supressing ones' desires/needs in order to avoid conflict) leads to hurt, anger, high blood pressure, depression, alcohol abuse, lawyers, and other bad things.
On the other hand, doing what gives you pleasure, peace, and in general a warm fuzzy feeling, leads to --- a warm fuzzy feeling.
Guess which path I've chosen. |
Bob-Great advice I'll have to remember that! You guys are gonna save me when I start getting into trouble, all of this valuable information.
~Tim |
My wife doesn't know anything about my hobby and could care less; she's too wrapped up in her Boyd's Bears and all of her other useless junk. I recommend this approach; when your wife or girlfriend complains about how much you spend on stereo equipment, ask her if she would rather you go out and spend the money gambling, drinking or chasing other women. That usually shuts them up. |
I carry with me what is known as "Hush Money". Whenever I make a major purchase, it is always followed up with a little something for the wife. Her hobby is the computer, so I will purchase a video card, memory, harddrive....that keeps her off my back. Try it, it works... |
Damn it Gumby, if you are trying to make the rest of us jealous, it's working.
At least now I know how you came by your moniker. |
This thread makes me chuckle, so I will pass on a little tale that might help you out. Show this one to your wives if they think you go "too far"...
Upon moving into the new domicile, It was discovered that I just COULD NOT get the turntable to be free from the shabby listening room floors "bendable" nature. Even a wall mount would not work. (Next house will be a concrete dome...)
Since the listening room does not have a basement under it, I did the right thing. Well, I thought it was the right thing.
As my wife got home from a long day at work, she found my brother, a friend and I deep into a project. The living room rug was history, there was a 4'X 4' hole in what used to be the floor/subfloor and where there once was the concrete pad that the original addition was built on, now was a 4 foot round, six foot deep..hole right into the ground.
She asked if we had too many beers. (There were only two empty cases in the kitchen.) She then asked if we had finally gone off and killed the trash next door and needed a place to dump the bodies.
Then she asked how she would get the concrete dust off of everything.
The WORST thing however, was the aircompressor spitting oil all over the porch after it ran the jackhammer for an hour to chop out the concrete. (carpet number two)
She decided it would be best to go to her friends house untill the dust settled and the slightly intoxicated helpers were gone.
The next afternoon, with a new piece of plywood on the floor she realized that there was a 4X4, sunk 6 feet into the ground (no bodies dear), then concreted under the house.
There were no arguements about the whole affair, we both knew better. I dont tell her what furniture to buy, what dishes, art supplies, dog classes, "you want a new car honey?" Go ahead, buy that new dress, it looks nice on you. Get the PROTON clock radio dear, not the cheapie. Go for the gusto! You like that color for the siding? Okay..etc etc.
The sound system and the autos are MY department. Everything else is hers.
In my living room now protudes a nicely stained 4X4 with a "home-made" plastic gasket around it. There is a cut in our carpet that "kind of" hides the interface between the floor and the 4 feet of beam sticking out of it.
The concrete dust has settled and been cleaned.
The LP12 sits on its perch like a proud bird on a dock piling. We have had company over the years that have commented on the "ugly" thing next to the "ugly" seven foot tall metal rack. "What is THAT for? Don't you stay with the times? We have CD's nowadays you know..."
A few have actually been seen to have goosebumps when she would proudly smile and say "yeah, but listen to this new Sting we just had imported from the UK."
As the Grado dropped in the groove, those without ears of tin understood.
But I still joke about that day she came home and handled the situation so well. It all worked out. Plus, she got new floor coverings. ;)
The day after, as we danced on our bare living room floor with zero upset to the stylus riding in the groove....she said, "I think the sound is wonderfull, but I think the cartridge is getting a bit tired. Maybe you should go get a new one."
God, I love my wife. |
My problem is less cost justification (i've taken the cowards way out and just don't discuss how much this stuff costs) but WAF (wife acceptance factor). I came across a sort of solution by bringing home a monolithic rear projection tv. She hated that so much that it had to go (substituted by a neat little projector). With audio the biggest objection I got was bringing home a pair of kef reference 3.2's. They were way to big for her tastes. So moving to the living voice obx's has her in smiles. |
Slawney. Very nice discourse. Sounds like you destroyed her heart and she destroyed your "heartware". I'm not getting into a discussion of which is most dear. However, if we flip this around a bit, aren't many of the responses in this thread related to inclusion and sharing as the keys to coping? If a woman destroys the things you love if she is treated wrong, does it follow that she would protect the things you love most if she is treated right? |
the girlfriend left (not too broken up about that), never been married....just me and the mutt, and we are both happy:D
Cinepro 20, here i come!!!! |
Slawney, a pleasure to see you back and a beautiful piece indeed. Your analysis, though of course politically highly incorrect, is of course psychologically more than correct,if you truly reduce the whole affair down to its brass tacks. It was Chaucer after all, who about a millenium ago pointed out, that the basic interest of woman was power - benevolently wielded, if you're lucky, maliciously, if you cross the lady. Was it not Shakespeare who said, that "hell hath no fury as a woman scorned", vide your Jadis. He also speaks of them as " those empty vessels". Obviously he understood something about male projection. In that sense our systems are empty vessels as well, aren't they? (~; |
Detlof, as an analyst, perhaps my answer to the question "girlfriends and wife, how do you cope?" will interest you because it relies on the difference between masculine and feminine attitudes towards listening pleasure. I can clarify this apropos of the psychoanalytic opposition between "enjoyment of drives" and "enjoyment of the other," since this opposition is sexualized. On the one hand, men follow the closed, ultimately solipsistic, circuit of drives which find their satisfaction in idiotic masturbatory (autoerotic) activity, in the perverse circulating around an object (e.g. a piece of music) as an object of drive. On the other hand, women are subjects for whom access to enjoyment is much more closely linked to the domain of other people's discourse, to how they not so much talk, as are talked about: say, musical pleasure hinges on the animated talk of the co-listener, on the satisfaction provided by speech itself and not just the act of listening in its infantile and onanistic stupidity. And does not this contrast explain the long-observed difference in how the two sexes relate to the "listening room"? Men are much more prone to use the listening room as a masturbatory device for their solitary listening immersed in stupid repetitive pleasures playing their records, while women are more prone to participate in chat in the listening room, using the listening room for exchanges of speech. There is another--more radical--point to be made here: namely, a "true woman" is defined by a certain radical act: the act of taking from man, her partner, of obliterating--even destroying--that which means everything to him, and which is more important to him than his own life, the precious treasure around which his life resolves. As the exemplary figure of such an act in my life, I will mention my previous fiance who, upon learning that I was involved with another woman, appropriated my Jadis amplifiers, my most precious possession at the time, and donated it to a Salvation Army store in Manhattan--it is in this horrible act of destroying that which matters most to her partner (whether through chat in the listening room, or through appropriating his most treasured component or recording) that a woman acts as a true woman and copes with her partner's way of enjoying himself. |
Someone, I think it was Albert, perhaps in this thread or perhaps in a similar one, pointed out, that it was important to make quite clear, right at the start of a relationship, ones dedication to music and the consequences this might have, so the choice is the lady's, if she is willing to live with this or not. Its honest, its clear and its true to oneself. This attitude is very similar to mine and through my life - which by now is a fairly long one - I've adhered to it and not done badly. Perhaps I've been lucky, because I never fell in love with anybody, who did not love music and infatuations to the contrary never really lasted long. If I think back on my most important relationship, which lasted almost 40 years, we never had an argument about equipment, because she knew it would serve the music, which we both loved. She used to look at my system as a musical instrument, which was evolving, a work in progress, listening critically, advising, helping. It was a passion we shared, music, the gear was only a means to its end. If I read some of the posts above, I suppose, I've been really blessed and very lucky. Cheers, |
Not bad advice, but not a cure-all either. If you're used to buying toys, you're not going to stop being interested once you get married or just because you've finally got your dream system. Plus, you'll find that your "needs" change - I've got more room to set up an awesome system now than at any time in my life, but with three other people in the house I don't have quite the flexibility for setup I used to have. If I already had my Dynaudio Evidence's powered by the baddest monoblocs I could imagine, I wouldn't be able to set them up today anyway. I'm way more interested in getting fabulous sound in the space I do have. It's far more important that you set expectations going into the marriage than to have acquired all the toys. -kirk |
budrew-one of my newest audiogon friends told me that just last week! get your toys now, while you still have the chance! I guess you both must be right ;) |
We have a new house and with it I've been upgrading all of my 20 year old TV and stereo equipment. My wife has been patient with my desires and wishes and we have worked to a compromise on the TV topic. Yes, we could get an HDTV, but it to be an inexpensive 27" TV (we picked a Samsung that is splendid for less than $1000). However, ironically, the month I decide I'm going to invest in that new McIntosh integrated amp I've sought for 20 years my wife decides we're going to track ALL of our expenses for that month to determine our monthly costs and create budgets. Doh! So we discussed it and agreed I would not share the cost of the amp (fortunately, she is not aware of the McIntosh value). But to be fair I'm going to reduce my other expenditures for the year. This is what I'm learning about marriage: it is all about comprimising to meet each other's needs and there is a balance which must be acheived. You both must respect each other's interests and allow each other to follow them. I agree as others have stated here that honesty is important. Admit that it IS an expensive piece of equipment, but be willing to make trade-offs in other areas, like holding off trading in that old Subaru for another year.
Before I was married a friend of mine gave me this advice: buy all your toys now because once you're married it won't be so easy to sneak them in the door. |
I tell her how much the stuff really costs and say "Aren't you lucky I'm not spending this money on another woman?!?"
Seriously, she knows how music, and my system, relaxes me and helps cope with this thing we call LIFE. |
this is how it works for me.
Marry a woman with a great job.[$$$]
Buy a small used audio store [as I have}
Bring every extremely good piece home to "check it out". Of course the stuff you like never makes it back to the store,and there's such a parade of gear in and out that no one can keep track.
Is it deceptive? possibly. But it works.
P.S. Im tires of my Threshold pre. Sure wish someone would trade-in a cool pre today....... |
Funny lines, Vaslchaf!
My wife is the same way. She doesn't want to know ANYTHING about the technology behind the stuff. She even told me NOT to even try to explain it, becuase it would ruin it for her.
But she will tell me if it sounds good or not!
KP |
My wife caught me studying the TacT web site (I have a birthday coming up), and I started explaining what the RCS digital room correction gadget does. "It goes between the CD transport and the . . .," I began. "Yes," she put in, "it goes between the wife and the husband."
Actually she's very agreeable about this hobby (as long as we have money in the bank), being a music-lover herself and a fine amateur pianist. When I change something in our system, she can tell in an instant if it makes a real improvement . . . or not. |
I made quite a bit of progress when I asked my wife what about the purchase at hand bothered her - is it the money, the fact that she doesn't like the UPS guy showing up, the fact that it's taking up my time, etc. I think it helped her see that it's really arbitrary on her part to mind, at least in some ways - she doesn't understand it, so it bugs her. Obviously, any time you want to spend as much as these (admitted) toys cost, money is an issue, but I think the activity of new gear showing up, old gear shipping out is just a reminder of a process she doesn't understand even though she doesn't actively resent the money being spent. -Kirk |
Dan, from what the ladies tell me, its like this: We men like playing and will never grow up. Its only women who will take life seriously: Subjugating husbands, managing the dough, running the family and keeping the premises clean. But then I have no idea, if this is true of course. At any rate, it does not seem quite politically correct, does it? Happy new Year ! (-; |
