Fletcher-Munson - Random Variables and You

Wow. I mean, you make that sound way better than kenjit.

People are different?  Who’d a thunk it!  

It's only about what sounds good. Hearing CAN evolve and "good" is moving target, but, if it sounds good to you don't pay any attention to the next guy. 
Enjoy the music.

People are different, and yet when Toole and Harmon did their big study on speakers, there was a really high correlation for preference. Most people, liked almost exactly the same thing, or at least rated the same things as "superior" for audio quality.

I think there is a difference between what tweaks our short term mood, and what we like long term/repeatable. Get in the car after the kids drive, and some times that extra bass sounds good ... for about 10-15 minutes till it sounds unnatural.  If all you know is excessive bass, you may come to think of that as "normal". If have come to know and like neutral, then not-neutral will not sound right.

I don't know I am "sensitive" to room acoustics, but spending a career on acoustic, I can walk into most setups, from an audiophiles basement to a large venue and pick up what is wrong, and once you identify it, it can become hard to ignore.

I don't know I am "sensitive" to room acoustics, but spending a career on acoustic, I can walk into most setups, from an audiophiles basement to a large venue and pick up what is wrong, and once you identify it, it can become hard to ignore.

@roberttdid
One of the great/worst things about the human brain and neural networks:  The pliability. You can teach yourself to listen to something you could have gone your entire life not knowing.

Erik, all true except you are more sensitive to phase than you think you are and if you are ever up in New England I can demonstrate that to you.

Now about Fletcher- Munson. What you are thinking about is the performance of the microphone, the inner ear which changes with age and is easily damaged. Much of F-M has to do with the diameter and length of the ear canal and the shape of the auricle. There is some variability here also but the point is that our sensitivity to bass and treble increases with volume. So, what sounds right to me at say 85 db sounds right to you at 82 dB. Before I had dynamic loudness control for serious listening I would adjust the volume to that which sounded right for that recording. With dynamic loudness compensation any recording can sound right at any level and this effect occurs across all the serious listeners who have listened to the system. None of them said "you need less bass" or "more treble" But my system is so atypical that most listeners are thunder struck. Very few people have heard full range line source ESLs with 8000 watts of subwoofers staring them down. It is a different experience from the more common point source system. 
Because the ESLs are "one way" and the subwoofers are time and phase aligned to them the entire system is phase correct to within a few degrees. If I intentionally delay the subs just 0.5 msec (5 feet at sea level)  You will hear and feel it easily when I switch back and forth.  This puts 100 Hz 180 degrees out of phase right at the crossover point. Instant mess. 

Lastly, everything is relative to the human brain. Freshly squeezed orange juice is one of the finest flavors nature ever created. It is quite sweet. Have a bite of pancake drenched in maple syrup. Go back to the orange juice and it will be sour and tart. Orange juice goes much better with eggs Benedict. It will stay sweet. If you are use to a system that is too bright a system tuned correctly will sound dull. Next we all have a remarkable trait called accommodation. If you walk into a room with a foul odor and stay there long enough the odor will seem to diminish in intensity, not so bad. Then another person walks in and says "shit! how can you stay in here? It stinks. If you walk into a very bright room you squint for a minute or two until your pupils clamp down. Much better. When you walk into a loud concert your head starts to ring but after a few minutes, not so bad. Your stapedius muscles have clamped down stiffening your ossicles decreasing your ear's sensitivity. All examples of accommodation. If I adjust a system to + or - 10 dB here and there it will sound pretty bad but the longer you listen to it you accommodate and eventually not only does it sound ok but systems that are right on sound awful. In short, a person's opinion on what something sounds like depends entirely on what they have been listening too which unless they have measured their system is entirely unknown. Most people have no idea on what their system is doing. If their system was impulse tested and they were shown the graphic they would probably puke. 
Basically, 99% of us are FOS:)

If I intentionally delay the subs just 0.5 msec (5 feet at sea level) You will hear and feel it easily when I switch back and forth. This puts 100 Hz 180 degrees out of phase right at the crossover point. Instant mess.

That is no longer phase sensitivity, that’s frequency response sensitivity, which most people are sensitive to. I was not referring to this at all, and that’s easy to show in any system.

Comparing Thiel and Vandersteen to otherwise frequency optimized speakers, such as Magico, Monitor audio, Revel, my own DIY designs or Fritz speakers, I do not hear a benefit in the former to the latter. That doesn’t mean they don’t sound different, but the only differences I hear are easily attributable to the frequency and amplitude, not phase. Sorry in this manner I am like Toole and the participants in several studies that have not shown phase alone to be audible.

As for the brain, yeah, so I’m not phase sensitive now. I don’t want to be. I don’t want to be more sensitive to playback systems than I already am. :)

Best,

E

Listening to any group playing acoustic instruments, or even a band with electric instruments that are not "sound reinforced" by a PA system, provides you with delays (in an orchestra there's nearly a city block between furthest left and right), phase anomalies, timing irregularities, and a different sonic mix experience for every person there. The only answer to these issues is to avoid live music at all costs or be forever led astray.

I think what you are describing Mijostyn is not phase sensitivity but out of phase cancellation of two distinct sources. This is usually a worse issue when subs are colocated with the mains.