First Tube amp suggestions

@helomech The same candid salesman who turned me onto the Cayin brand (who didn’t sell Cayin at the time) once told me that Jolida (Black Ice) products don’t perform very well. Maybe the newer stuff is much better but his words were the Jolidas “are POS.” FWIW….

It’s not "worth" much at this point if a consumer is looking at new amps. With a little more research you’ll find a historical split away from the old Jolida brand, Black Ice Audio came into the picture as a new company, new designs by well regarded designers. If you look under the hood of a Black Ice Audio amp, it’s decent.

I’ve helped a few buddies on old Jolida’s still running great with upgrades, and a few other who bought the all new Black Ice Audio, they have been running them for past 3 years with no issues. Questions answered in the USA state of Maryland.

Some of these so called "candid salesmen" are not worth much either. I do not own any Black Ice Audio products by the way yet know several happy customers.

https://blackiceaudio.com/where-are-we-made

+1 for Cayin I have the CS 55A integrated with triode or ultalinear mode with tube upgrade upgrades to Gold Lion KT88's, PSvane 12AX7's and nos Mullard 12AU7's. I will play with the EL34 as well. It blows away my old Rogue Sphinx V1 hybrid. Most cheaper the amps will need to have the tubes upgraded. I started to get the Cayin A88T, but decided against because of the weight.

Maybe not the best advice to somebody who wants to go down the tube route, but with myself being a die hard tube user for numerous years, there is a relevance to the suggestion.

I have heard over recent years SS Power Amp's that are in my view as attractive in use as a Tube Amp' that does not have noticeable bloom.

If you think bloom is your thing, (certainly not mine) and it has not been lived with for a period of time, when encountered and it is present with the capability to be perceived as being detected for a extended period. The bloom/coloration becomes a detractor and is fatiguing, that is how I react to it.

The impact on the the settlement into the musical encounter is no different to a harsh high frequency, the experience is not wanted to be endured, and shortening of the planned time for a session will be the outcome. 

I use tube equipment that in the world of tubes are on the transparent side of the scale. There are SS Class D Amp's that I have heard in A/B comparison and these are quite similar in how they evoke emotion and encourage a embracing of the musical encounter.

My suggestion if noticeable bloom/colouration is not being sought, would be to have a look at a B1 Korg Pre-Amp' to be paired with a Class D SS Power Amp. This will catapult one quite close to what a well worked out design for a Transparent Type of Tube Amp can offer, without any concerns for what owning Valve equipment carries.    

A lot of suggestions here are for SET amps.  An SET will have trouble driving the speakers you have.  You're going to be left wanting for more.

If you were a friend and asked me I would tell you that you should NOT go down the tube path yet. You have so much more to explore with hi-end solid state components that you haven't even approached great solid state sound. Solid state gets better and better at delivering outstanding sound even rivaling tubes. A great SS system will definitely put the musician in your room and can even give you that organic natural live stage presence you are looking for. I'm afraid to get where you want to go will take more than your budget allows. But if you take your time and buy quality pre-owned you can get there. Also, current tube shortages/high tube prices make it a terrible time to go into tube components for the first time.

P.S. I know I will get flamed by the tube cultists. But I am willing to take the flames for you. I currently own a CARY V12R and CARY 805AE mono amps but rarely listen to them anymore preferring to listen to my Plinius SA100 amp.

I just want to say after being an audiophile for over fifty years. The thing that increased my enjoyment of audio more than anything was moving to tube amplification. The enjoyment level is simply so much higher it is incredible. I no longer sit analyzing how deeply into the soundstage I can hear, if I can hear the bassist move his foot… but get lost in the musical experience. Go tubes.

One of the most amazing experiences I have had was with a set of Sound Labs Millennial speakers with a Viva set amp (flee power… a few watts). Typically, you want hundreds of watts and massive current. The emotional connection was incredible. While I would not put these together… it showed one end of the spectrum… all emotion / musicality… and showed how highly detailed ss systems can strip the music and emotion from the recordings.

Go tubes.

Silver Luna by Fezz Audio 35 Watts w/ El 34 tubes . Very nice and reliable Get on for 2500 bucks .The Chinese can"t beat that .

@1extreme P.S. I know I will get flamed by the tube cultists. But I am willing to take the flames for you. I currently own a CARY V12R and CARY 805AE mono amps but rarely listen to them anymore preferring to listen to my Plinius SA100 amp.

As a former Cary V12R owner, and Pass/Forte’ true Class-A solid state owner, with the tube amps, after upgrades, replacing the old stock AudioOne caps, adding hexfreds, and better input tubes for my V12R - it became a different amplifier at a different level. Sold it to buy mono tube amps to try. Since then, Cary Audio offers these upgrades for the new Cary 805RS amplifiers. The Mundorf upgrades provide nice transparency, beautiful tone, texture, and soundstage improvements.

I use these upgrades in my current amps and it does make a nice difference.

While many Class A solid state amps are nice, more 2-dimensional sounding. After good warmup, my upgraded tube amps are 3-dimenional, and layered sounding. Each time I switch back to my tube amps, I reflect on why they hold primary position.

@tritube

When tubophiles wax on about how tubes completely changed their lives, brought them to a state of inner narvana and even made them better looking, you really need to dig into what systems they had prior or what they are comparing the tube component to. Tubes really sprang into popularity when most systems were mid-fi, at best in the 60’s to 90’s unless those audiophiles invested a fortune in one of the handful of manufactures making really powerful SS amps. So when comparing mid-fi to tubes it was definitely an improvement. You also would hear an improvement if you compared your current NAD integrated amp. My point is just that you should try some higher-end SS amps before you move to tubes because there are many more options today and many good SS preowned options.

PS. That impedance graph previously posted for your speakers is a deal killer. Don’t even bother putting tubes on those speakers. Tubes just don't do well on speakers that have an impedance graph that looks like that. They do best with fairly level impedance curves. Put a good SS amp with strong current on your speakers and you will notice a big improvement. Do you have a local audiophile club in your area? That is a good way to listen to higher end system.

I’ve had a Krell FPB 600 class A for the last 8 yrs. I recently bought the Audio Research REF 750s mono amps and I am in heaven with the tube sound. Everything u have ever heard about tubes are so true. I was just listening for 6 hrs. And I am not one bit fatigued. I could never have done that with my Krell amp. 

@1extreme

Sounds reasonable.

I took out my first loan in 1979 to buy a Threshold s500 ($18K in todays dollars)… designed by Pass.. the finest solid state amp of its time. Over the next forty years I upgraded to a Pass x350 and have had extensive experience with Krell, Boulder, Luxman, and Mark Levenson and Rowland over this time.

When I upgraded to an Audio Research Reference 160s and Reference 160m monoblocks my audio world completely changed. The musicality is simply overwhelming. What was I screwing around with solid state for 45 years… wow, what a waste of time.

Hi tritube,  just curious what you ended up doing.   I was in your position 2 years ago and can empathize.  The good folks here on Audiogon also provided me great advice like they have above here. 

Black Ice Audio came up as something for me to look into.    I can vouch for everyone's positive comments on Black Ice Audio.  I started out with their F22, as it was the most I could afford.   Then, I found a used F35 and pounced! I have rolled tubes to TungSol KT-170s to maximize the power, as I am driving ATC SCM 11v2 speakers - albeit in a small 8ft x 10ft home office.  So, this set up works for me.  

In addition, I own their FOZ SS-X, and their DAC.  I am happy with all of them.

I also have had awesome experiences with the customer service.  Jerred (CEO) is very passionate about their products. I have traded emails, had phone conversations, and have had the pleasure of meeting him and Mike on a few occasions.

My 2 cents as a customer of their products, FWIW.

Cheers.

Check out the Coincident Dynamo 34SE MKIII ($1,799).

Incredible amp for the price.