First impressions of new MH-DA006, Musetec flagship

sns, with the 006 are you running pin mode 5 on the Gaia?  And, is the pin mode the same on the 005 if you know?

I believe I've answered my own questions--yes, and yes.

@car123 Obviously you can change or conform modes on either the Gaia or 006. At present I'm running mode 0 on Gaia which conforms to code M1-D, M2-A, M3-D, M4-A, M5 is for DSD. I believe Mode 0 on Gaia is the PS Audio standard which many products conform to. You can use any variety of codes pairing Gaia and 006 together, just make sure you have left and right clocks and data runs matched, easy to get this mixed up and still have sound.

I received the 006 several days ago, and the Gaia a day later.  Immediate impression of the 006 with the lks 100 was that the 006 provided a wider more distinct soundstage and more defined images than the 005 but was somewhat less involving and musical that the well broken in 005. I remember the same initial impression when the 005 was new in contrast with the internal DAC in my aurender A10, but that the 005 became more engaging and involving as time went on.  It;s really a stunning DAC.  As time went on and the 005 settled in, it far surpassed the aurender.  It also took hundreds of hours to fully settle in.  I have since passed the A10 on to a friend and bought an N200, which I love.

Inserting the Gaia definitely elevated the 006.  The Gaia really seems to be quite an exceptional DDC even though brand new.  Incidentally, I ran a $10 HDMI cable for a day until I finally found a Wireworld silver cable (2 meters long) I had buried in a cable box and that cable improved the presentation.  I will likely get a 1/2 meter tubulus.

I am, however, having a pin issue that has me stumped.  The default pin mode on the 006 is AAAAB.  This coincides with mode 5 on the Gaia.  However, when running these modes, the channels are inverted.  I tried sns's settings and again the channels are inverted.  I can correct the inversion by switching LRCK settings.  However, I am worried this may be introducing timing errors, which is one of the reasons to use a DDC.

I have checked my interconnects from the 006 into my preamp (and from preamp to amp) at least a dozen times and they are correctly configured.

Thoughts? 

@car123 Your pin settings are correct for both configurations, you should not  be inverting channels. Are you sure your pre doesn't invert channels, some do. In any case I doubt the inverted channels should be introducing any extra timing errors.

You need full burn in to properly evaluate which you seem to be aware of. 006 is easily more refined and musical vs 005 in my setup, I now consider 005 as slightly more on analytical side of neutral. Involvement with 006 was also slightly down on 005 for me until micro dynamics began to kick in sometime after 300 hours. Gaia kicked in nicely after around 200 hours, same with Tubulus cable. The 2M HDMI cable is likely producing needless timing errors, you're on right track with 1/2M, full silver wire I2S cable, no need to spend for the  extra silver wire in an HDMI cable.

Keep us posted as sound develops.

I have a joule electra marianne edition preamp and it does not invert channels. It does invert phase which requires reversing speaker cable polarity. But l-r channel orientation has always been correct and consistent for various inputs and the problem has only manifested since installing the 006/gaia combination.  

Running the correct pin settings indeed inverts channels compared to before putting the 006/gaia into the mix, and compared to my vinyl rig. I have corrected the inversion by reversing the setting on the LRCK wires; I’m concerned that is introducing timing errors. I could revert to "correct" pin settings and reverse l/r interconnects between the DAC and the pre but I’m trying to get to the bottom of the issue.

I will keep fiddling and burning everything in a I will keep puzzling over the inversion. It’s quite strange and unexpected.

If this messing with timing I'd expect you'd hear the difference when changing pin configuration.

Cool, running Joule Electra. I ran LA-100 MKIII some years ago, swapped all the stock Solen caps for Jantzen Z Superior coppers on signal board, Jantzen's really upped the game. RIP Judd.

Misspoke, meant to say phase, memory of that issue came from my Joule. Back in that period of time was using highly modded Merlin VSM, Bobby and Judd's creations were very sympatico.

The joule gear is excellent, I had an LA 100 first generation and am sorry I sold it. It was magical with my music reference RM 10. I still have an LA 150, which is in storage. The La 300 ME is quite a bit better than the 150.

I also had rites of passages and let them go. I swapped my VZN 80 with my brother. I actually prefer my first watt sit-3, it’s quite an amazing amp.

RIP Judd, he was a good man.

I’m really not hearing any difference changing the LRCK pin configuration. But, I haven’t really sat down and listened critically. I’m concentrating on run in.

I did order a 1/2 meter tubulus today.  Sounds like it will take 3 or 4 weeks to receive the cable.  Patience...

Seems to me issue you're having most likely pin wiring issue within Gaia or 006, suspect this to be non issue in regard to sound quality. May want to try another example of Gaia or 006 if it remains bothersome.

What Tubulus model did you order? Patience was key, but didn't feel exactly deprived with the previous $70 I2S cable. Not to say the Tubulus wasn't an easily heard upgrade.

I ordered an argentus.  I couldn't talk myself into a ximius. 

I agree it's likely some sort of wiring issue.  I'm not going to worry about it for now.  And as I said, I couldn't hear a SQ difference switching the LRCK pin configuration.  I'll do more discerning analysis after I get a couple hundred more hours on the units.

Quick update, I've got about 150-200 hours on the 006/Gaia combination.  Things are settling in.  I'm noticing a developing sense of increasing ease and coherence to go along with the incredible detail, soundstage and distinct vocal and instrument placement that has been present since startup.  It surpasses the 004 and prior DDC by a good bit.  But, I believe there is more to be gained based on my recollection of break in with the 005, which continued to develop in its musicality and its ability to draw the listener in for probably about 600 hrs or perhaps more. 

I'm definitely enjoying the new combination and look forward to continuing positive evolution as well as my tubulus cable.    

Great, the added ease and refinement you're hearing is a function of both 006 and and the I2S conversion via Gaia and Tubulus cable.  While resolution/transparency is improved slightly with the I2S setup, I never experienced the vinyl like presentation prior to Gaia.

I felt 006 break in pretty much attained at around 350-375 hours, my Gaia and Tubulus lkely less than fully burned at something between 275-350 hours.. I've been hearing very consistent sound quality for over a month, surmise there won't be much change here on out.

Gentlefolk,

First post here - Happy (late) New Year to all!

A couple of questions if I may - particularly to @car123 @sns ​​​​@dbb as you have first-hand experience of the Musetec 006, but input from others is more than welcome.

CONTEXT:

I have to replace my lovely and long-serving LFD Dac III (bought new 1996), as it has developed a strange form of electromagnetic allergy to the pre-amp (even longer serving Stax CA-X, dated 1978).

The rest of the system is equally vintage: Stax DA-80 power amp (1978), Audiomeca Mephisto CD transport (1993; re-clocked) and Sonus Faber Electa Amator speakers (1995). There is a Behringer Ultramatch used as a DDC/upsampler between the transport and the DAC, as it seems to sound better. Richard Sachek silver cables throughout, except for digital cables which are a mix of Audioquest and home-made high quality but not esoteric stuff.

Not streaming anything at the moment, but I may start doing so, and mainly listening to classical (90%) and jazz (10%).

A 'good' system in my book provides both analytical and synthetic abilities: I want to be able to hear individual instruments or voices _if I want to,_ but I also need to hear the overall musical piece and how it hangs together. For 30 years, the old dinosaurs have delivered that to me.

QUESTIONS:

1) I am seriously considering the Musetec 006, largely on the basis of the strengths illustrated in this thread, which is about 95% of all the information I can find on the internet. Budget is fine - but am I deluding myself that the rest of the system will actually use it? Or should I set my sights on something significantly cheaper? (The DAC 3 had a great reputation 30 years ago, to the point that it is still saleable for >$1000, at least in the UK).

2) To Gaia or not to Gaia? At some point in the next year or so, I will begin transferring my ~2000 CDs onto some sort of music server, and I will start purchasing hi-res tracks as it's often cheaper to buy those than new CDs. Considering this, is it worth investing in a 'universal' bridge like the Gaia now - as it seems to benefit the sound regardless of the need for a DDC (lower jitter? I²S format?) or should I rather wait and see what my server and streaming infrastructure looks like?

Apologies for the long post, and thanks in advance for your wisdom!

@dlevi67 
Welcome to the forum.

Based on the sound you are looking for (“. . . both analytical and synthetic abilities: I want to be able to hear individual instruments or voices _if I want to,_ but I also need to hear the overall musical piece and how it hangs together.”), I would say the 006 would fit your taste beautifully. But, as you suggest, you can’t fully appreciate a near state of the art DAC with dinosaur equipment. My opinion is if you have no plans to modernize your system go with a cheaper DAC. I see no reason to consider the Gaia for the same reason.

@dbb Thanks for the welcome, and for the opinion.

The little upgraditis devil that has returned to sit on my shoulder after many year says "yes, but... what if you took this as an opportunity to get the rest up to scratch?" And TBH it sounds very good - I went for a listening session of a Chord Hugo TT2 carrying pre and speakers, and was not convinced by the Chord - on the other hand, the dealer was impressed by the sound of 30-45 year old stuff.

Perhaps look at a used 005 if you don't plan to upgrade the rest of the system.  The 006 (and the 005) definitely benefit from superb associated equipment.    But you can get a used 005 for quite a bit less than a new 006.  And, you might not hear the differential gains of the 006 vs the 005 given the rest of the system.

I agree with dbb re the gaia.  

@car123 Thanks!

If you want an 005, you could contact Jason Walker in Indiana, the US dealer.  He has a couple used 005s, including my old black one.  It's a great DAC.

Yes, they seem to be posted for sale on Audio Mart (or at least - there is an Indiana-based ad there by 'Midwest Audio'). Half price vs. the 006... back to the thinking board!

Yes, that's Jason's company.  He's a great guy, straight shooter, very good to deal with.  The 005s are great, similar to the 006 but just a little less of everything.  I was extremely happy with mine and my system is extremely good, I just got upgradeitis. 

I'm starting to remember that feeling...

Why I agree with the reasons given to purchase the 005 vs 006, the advantage of purchasing the 006 now is future upgrades would likely reveal the greater potential of 006. While you'd not likely hear the greater resolving/transparency of 006 in the near term its likely you would in longer term. The other major benefit of 006 vs 005 for me is the more analog like presentation, its simply a more forgiving dac even while providing greater resolution/transparency, and this even via usb. I've owned 004,005,006 and each was successively superior in this regard to the previous.

If I were in your shoes I'd not purchase the Gaia yet, Gaia is for a very mature streaming setup, like icing on the cake.  I very well remember the Audiomecca equipment, that cd transport was right at the top of the list when I did an upgrade back in the day, ended up with Mark Levinson No. 37. Took quite some time for my streaming setup to beat out playing cd's via the Levinson. Amazed your transport has survived this long, it was a sad day when ML died, never could replicate it's sound with any subsequent transports, expedited my move into streaming.

As for streamers, good luck. With so many people advocating for so many choices I'd be totally confused if I were a newbie. I'm one who advocates for every to crossed, i dotted so its been mostly diy route for me. Personally, when I was looking at off the shelf servers, Antipodes was at the top of the list, pretty costly though. Lots of people like Aurrender, others Innuos. I also like Small Green Computer, I use some of Sonore equipment, they have a pretty nice server as well. At a more reasonable price the EverSolo seem to be getting pretty good reviews.

Rather than ripping your cd's to internal drive on streamer, consider NAS, I run a Synology for my over 3k rips. This will open you up to a lot more choices in streamers, many don't provide for internal storage. Good luck.

@sns Thank you very much for a comprehensive reply. I think I will go with 006, for the reasons you mention and also because by the time I have factored in shipping from US to UK, customs clearance, VAT (UK - 20%) and all the rest, the price difference vs. getting a 006 from the European importer/representative is well below $1000. So much for 'free trade'.

Very quick update, the system continues to evolve for the better at about 200hrs on the 006 and Gaia. Incredible detail and stage but the sound, particularly vocals, continues to develop more realism and involvement.

I’m very happy with the upgrade and look forward to receiving my tubulus and a few other upstream changes I'm going to try.

@car123 I haven't been keeping close track to hours recently but somewhere around 350 for Gaia and 250 for Tubulus and sound continues to evolve. Mostly gains in harmonic structure and more natural attack and decay. Mostly what I love with my present setup is the honesty of how it portrays each and every recording. Sometimes I can perceive my setup as sounding just a bit darkish, but then I play a recording with more air up top and that perception disappears. Same with all other parameters of sound quality, recordings should be presented in the exact manner they were recorded.

Very interested in hearing your perceptions of Tubulus cable, some claim they don't hear differences with I2S cables, I easily heard difference from my initial I2S cable.

I'm fairly certain I will hear the difference with the tubulus and will report my impressions when it arrives.

In incorporating the 006 and gaia, I temporarily downgraded the power cord on my N200 just out of convenience.  This morning, I went back to one of my better power cords on the N200 and was quite shocked at the improvement even though I know the difference cords can make. 

It reinforces that everything matters. 

The system is sounding exceptional. 

When I first installed Gaia was using an inferior power cord and sitting on stock feet. Added one of my diy power cords (these replaced pc's up to $7k throughout system) and placed on Stillpoints, easily heard improvement.

I wish everyone with Musetec or Laiv Harmony dac could hear these dacs with Gaia via I2S, extracting max potential from these dacs is well worth it!

My name is Jacob, a week ago I got together with 3 other friends for a comparative test between a Cen Grand dsdac1.0 Deluxe and the Musetec 006. The comparison lasted a whole weekend where we compared the 2 dacs with different amplifiers, headphones and speakers ( each brought their own electronics ) for a total of 4 headphone amps, 5 headphones, 3 speaker amps and 3 pairs of speakers.

The connections, as the Cen Grand does not have the i2s output, were made with aes ebu and usb, with identical cables for both. Obviously the 2 dacs fully broken in, the Musetec with over 600 hours and the Cen Grand with about 400 so we started listening.

At the end of the comparison we determined unequivocally that the overall winner was the Musetec. The mid-bass is epic, legendary, the layering and headstage are superior to the Cen Grand while on the mid-high the comparison was more uncertain, with more similarities than differences. Also considering the cost, the Musetec came out as the winner hands down.

I continue to be impressed with the 006/gaia combination as it keeps positively evolving at around 250-300 hrs.  Microdynamics, detail, resolution and soundstage are truly off the charts while also allowing profound involvement with the musical performances.  There is nothing "digital" about the musical presentation.  Rather, the system allows even more of an immersive experience than ever before.  I agree with sns that my digital system rivals or perhaps surpasses my vinyl rig (tw acustic raven, graham phantom, benz ebony lp, steelhead.) 

Listen to I'm With Her performing Crescent City, it is extremely easy to locate Sara, Sarah, and Aoife arrayed before you.  In fact, many I'm With Her songs are good tests of the resolution of your system, and the ladies are astonishing talents.

Another of my favorite test songs is Guy Clark performing The Dark.  His band is filled with amazingly talented musicians.  I love to listen to Darrell Scott playing rhythm in the right channel and Verlon Thomas playing lead in the left channel. 

In the last several days,  also swapped out a cisco switch for a second sonore opticalRendu deluxe as part of my "optical moat" and it had profound positive effects.

I'm extremely happy with the system and look forward to continued break in as well as receipt of my tubulus cable. 

@car123 @sns  I have been following this thread for awhile.  I am looking for a good DAC and this has been one that I have been checking out.  I have also been looking at the Holo Audio May KTE and Mojo Audio Mystique X.  Has any of you had a chance to compare these.  They are 2 different types both with great reviews.

@wombat79 Comparisons are always informative, 006 does reach far above it's cost.

@car123 Nice vinyl setup, I've heard most of your equipment at shows. Says a lot that you feel Musetec competes or surpasses it. Same vs my vinyl setup consisting  of completely restored Technics SP10MkII in 100lb custom plinth, Jelco TK-3850L tonearm, Korf headshell Audio Technica AT-Art9XA, Zavfino Gold Rush cable, Thoress phonostage. Always thought I'd have to pay more than 006 cost for digital to surpass my vinyl. With Tubulus cable you're in for icing on the cake. Y

You can further upgrade the Sonore optical with Finisar SFP1475 transceivers, further lowering of noise floor meaning greater resolution/transparency, good bang for the buck with these.

@brbrock While I haven't heard the May KTE or Mystique X I've closely watched reviews over the years. I've seen a number of KTE comparisons to my Laiv Harmony, seem to have similar performance, preference  varies between the two. So, if this true 006 will outperform both with higher resolution, presentation certainly can't be faulted with Harmony or 006. I suspect top of the line Mystique X SE would provide superior resolution to Harmony and KTE with similar presentation. I really don't think you can go wrong with any of these dacs. While I don't need two dacs and find 006 slightly superior I can't bring myself to sell Harmony, its that good. For me 006 only reaches it's full potential with i2S via Gaia and Tubulus cable. Via usb I slightly preferred Harmony presentation to 006, so for me I2S necessary for 006.

sns, nice vinyl rig.  I forgot to mention I already have finisar spf1475 installed in the sonores.

I'm heading to my dedicated room for a listen.

How much capacitance does the 006 have?  I looked at the website and can't find it.

Just curious, why does the amount of capacitance matter in a DAC ?

In layman words the bigger the better the cleaner. Also if you can get it away from the other electronics the better.