@sns good feedback so far on what seems atypical of the burning process. keep us updated. I am still not sure if I want to upgrade to 006 - so many DACs available at this price range. On one side I kept thinking of trying a non-Sabre DAC - AKM, R2R, Fpga, Hybrids, but then the Musetec 005 also sounds very musical in my setup. Not sure what to do - a problem with too many choices :-)
@melm nice summarizing all the types of DDCs.
There is one DDC that called my attention - its a Audiobyte Super Hub. Its expensive compared to others but I have heard good things about it.
https://www.audiobyte.net/products/superhub
With my experience with digital and a lot of DIY along the way, it extremely difficult to pick a winner. There are so many factors with digital that affects the sound, it is hard to say in advance what will work in one’s system. One really got to try it out. However, one thing that I can say confidently and which has worked in every situation is the better and more stable a power supply, the better the sound in digital.
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I had a long listening session this evening with the 006. At this point it has been over 500 hours. My first conclusion is that it has finally stabilized. No more high frequency congestion. The wait tried my patience. I was once skeptical that any piece of electronics really needed 500 or more hours to be fully broken in. I’m a believer now.
From a music lover’s perspective, which it what we audiophiles claim to be, this machine is a friend of the heart. It does not sound analog or digital per se but like live music which can lift your mood and elevate your spirit.
If asked my opinion on how it sounds from a critical listening audiophile perspective, it is all the good things that I have reported. Near astounding natural resolution, dynamics, soundstaging, and imaging. Not a trace of glare or harshness. The texture of the sound almost rejects common audiophile adjectives like smooth, thin, thick, etc. The words that I think are appropriate are real and palpable. I would still say it has neutral tonal balance with a slight tilt to the warm side much like the 005. Where it is beyond anything I have heard is that I am able to close my eyes during certain orchestral passages and hear so clearly various string sections entering and exiting, accent details like subtle bass and cello pizzicatos appearing and disappearing as if heard live. Some chamber music sounds so real it is spooky. Audiophiles call this resolution, but I don’t think the word does justice to the experience.
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@dbb What you're hearing now much more in line with what I'm hearing and have heard all along.
On to last nights listening session, now at just over 200 hours. Every listening session is revelatory with this dac, I constantly and consistently hear new information previously lost. 006 digs deep into mixes, where is the noise floor with this thing!
First thing I noticed, no more of that dark tinge I previously occasionally heard, upper mids and highs opened up, no sense of being closed in or polite in tone. I'd now rate as neutral, very much like 005.
Second thing I noticed right off is sound stage expansion, I now have images outside my speakers, pretty hard to attain with Klipschorns and necessary corner placement (I do have independent movement from the bass bin with my Volti horns and tweeter mounted on separate baffle). And the center image has so much more layering and depth than previous (again lucky as I have bay window area on front wall that reaches from ceiling to floor). Height of images also increased, haven't heard a change here in years. As for the images themselves, while l've long experienced great dimensionality here, with 006 the individual images not only localized to a greater extent, these individual images now more filled in, more sense of meat on the bone. What is even more special is the way these images float in space, simply ethereal!
And now we come to the presentation aspect of how all this newly found information is relayed. I used the word hyper detailed in my previous reviews, no more of that here. The 'bloom' has started, both macro and micro dynamics have increased such that the performers now presented as having that 'breath of life', this was something I thought 005 did pretty well, 006 goes far and above. The smallest of gradations in breath with wind instruments and vocals makes them come far more alive than previous. The touch of string instruments does the same, massed violins, cellos, bass far more natural and life like. The macro dynamics certainly much greater scale than previous as well.
Along for the ride with the greater dynamic envelope I'm hearing a new found ease in the presentation, much more flow than previous. The two words I thought of while listening were expressive and effortless. Expressive in the sense that my emotions were heightened by a much greater sense that real live flesh and blood performers in the room. Effortless in the sense of a more analog like presentation, I've heard some very nice vinyl setups in my time, up to multiple of hundred thousands, I've never heard digital sound this close to vinyl. This sense of an analog type presentation also came from the more natural timbre I'm hearing with 006, much superior to 005. Finally I'd add there is now a sense of this being a much more holistic presentation, everything more coherent and falling into place, may even exceed Laiv Harmony in this aspect.
I agree with dbb, merely stating high resolution doesn't do the 006 justice, this far more than that. At this point I'd judge the 006 as one of those components or upgrades that is far more than a mere incremental improvement, every recording is redefined such that it sounds fresh and new, quite an accomplishment!
I suspect this dac will continue to go unnoticed what with Musetec's inability to market or promote itself in western markets. I'd only say this dac is far under priced for what it is, the technology alone far surpasses probably everything under $10K, add this level of sound quality and what you have is a no brainer purchase.
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@sns I feel your description perfectly captures what I am hearing. We’ll said. I am curious if you will find even further improvements as you reach 500 hours.
It does take a leap of faith to buy the 006 when it is not promoted or professionally reviewed. Still the 005 did get some traction eventually. It seems from the forums and the for sale ads that those who took the leap with the 005 were glad they did. Maybe the same will happen with the 006.
I would suggest potential purchasers contact the company directly to see if a discount is offered. In the past the factory direct price on the 005 was discounted. I've seen some discounted prices on ebay too, but know nothing of those vendors.
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The Musetec MH-DA006 is now available from Aoshida
I bought my Gustard A26 from them through their Amazon store and the service was excellent. They had the older LKS/Musetec stuff on their site but no 006 so I emailed them asking why. Anyways it is available from them now
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Has anyone had a chance to listen to the Musetec 006 and any of the DAC's in the six DAC comparison done by Mithc2 to give a comparison.
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I was looking at the internals of the Musetec and they don't say on the website what clocks they use. Does anyone know what clocks are being used?
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@brbrock @sns is in the process of evaluating the Laiv Harmony and the 006.
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@brbrock Musetec states clocks are custom builds for whatever that means. LKS USB-100 uses Crystek CCHD-957, and this cheapo DDC sells for $280, can't imagine clocking in 006 being anything lesser.
Really don't know how Mitch2 does it, doing a two dac comparison really time consuming. 006 is my focus at the moment, will get back to Laiv after full burn in of 006 in main rig. Laiv in secondary rig undergoing full burn in, after that will go back into main rig.
. 006 and my perceptions of it continue to evolve with more listening time. The added level of resolution 006 provides vs 005 takes some time to come to terms with, therefore, vast majority of my listening focus has been on this newfound information. With more listening time I've come to accept this as new reference standard which allows me to focus on other things. Amongst other things to focus on is getting out of the analytical listening mode and into musical enjoyment mode, 006 has made this seamless with it's natural presentation and illuminating and meaningful resolving of the lowest level details.
As to continuing analysis of sound, at around 225 hours, sound stage continues to enlarge, still the slightest veil as it pertains to transparency, slightly closed in character at times, very minor at this point. Slightly diminished macro and micro dynamics are the most noticeable deficiencies at the moment. result is slight loss of expression vs 005. This loss of expression means performers seem less alive in room vs what I remember with 005. I first noticed this at around 200 hour mark, somewhat improved from that, hope to get up to 300 hour mark this week.
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Been privately conversing with a member here who's exclusively using I2S input on 006, has no usb capability. And since LAIV Harmony purchase planned on going I2S, I have Denafrips Gaia and two different I2S specific (no video capability) cables coming in, one all copper, the other Tubulus Concentus pure silver.
I don't recall ever seeing a 005 review using optimized I2S input so this intrigues me with 006. Going I2S, adding a component and cable, but eliminating usb to I2S conversion within dac, trade offs? 006, as well as Harmony offer sync or async modes which means using host clock or local/dac clock, Gaia clock is reportedly one of the best OXCO out there, good test for quality of 006 clock. Probably a month or so out with burn in/ waiting on Tubulus cable build to get good read on preferred input.
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Perhaps I'm restating the obvious, but there was reporting on the 005 thread of using DDC conversion of USB to I2S outside of the 005 and comparing it to the same conversion inside of the 005. One or two people preferred it even with a rather inexpensive DDC. Others were sceptical.
What I think has not been discussed and might be of more interest, at least to me, is the use of an ethernet to I2S streamer avoiding any use of USB or SPDIF (or its siblings).
Of course I2S is more easily accomplished on the 006 as it has options for a variety of pin-outs.
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@sns It would be great to hear from your 006 correspcorrespondent on his sound quality impressions and use of I2S. Is his unit broken in?
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Member I'm in contact with using I2S directly out of streamer so no usb. Only 130 hours on unit at this point.
I was one of those who tried I2S with 005, Singxer SU6 with pretty inferior HDMI cable, never really optimized it, sold Singxer soon after. Really not interesting in optimizing that setup as USB with 005 was entirely satisfying. Same holds here, 006 just great with USB, most of my interest in getting the Gaia was in applying it to LAIV dac and any subsequent R2R dac I may purchase in future. My understanding of R2R dacs is they more sensitive to clocking vs our Sabre chip dacs, segregated/dedicated clock signal run on I2S optimum for most precise clocking.
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@SNS I have the LAiV and I can tell you that their USB implementation is stellar. I purchased a Gustard U18 in order to try the I2S input on the Harmony, and there was no difference between the I2S and USB inputs.
I would love to see a comparison between the Harmony and the 006. I'm a huge fan of R2R having owned a couple of different MSB units in the past (they're too pricey for me now), and the Harmony would hold its own against the older MSB Analog DAC IMHO.
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@catastrofe Technically, I don't see anything special with usb input on Laiv. Likely I'll try Laiv in main system this week, need to get up to around 200 hours burn in on this unit, this will continue to be over usb input. I2S will come later when Gaia has sufficient hours. Your take on Laiv vs older msb interesting, I've commonly heard msb described as more on analytical side.
006 COMES ALIVE! What do I mean by this? So, now at around 300 hours last night's listening session marked a transition point where 006 finally opening up. Firstly, tonally top end opened up, no longer even a hint of darkness/closed in sound, I now hear this as a former veil over the presentation, new level of transparency gained over any previous dac. Secondly, there was an important and profound change in the dynamic envelope. Specifically, I'm speaking of micro dynamics, the fine gradations of dynamics range we hear with non amplified voices and musicians, This means breath with voice and wind instruments, touch with stringed instruments, Get this right and the illusion of live performers in listening room becomes greatly heightened. Add this to the more natural timbre of 006 and you have what some describe as texture, I'd also describe it as expression, 006 has both in spades.
I'll go into a bit of depth here on this issue of compression. Certainly, I hear much about compression on recordings, not so much with playback. And I hear this described mostly as macro dynamic compression. While this is certainly a concern, the micro form is what makes recordings sound flat and boring. Maximizing micro dynamics in one's system seems to me perhaps the single most important aspect in delivering this sensation of live performers in room. Many describe highly resolving systems that only sound good with higher quality recordings. When you maximize micro dynamics in your system far more recordings become palatable and/or involving. 006 has greatly increased my involvement with virtually every recording I've played thus far. And no homogenization like one may hear with lower levels of resolution, every recording is presented with it's own unique sound signature.
So, now we have this heightened level of expression in addition to extraordinary traits of this unit mentioned in prior posts. End result is best digital presentation I've yet heard, right up there with the best analog sources I've had the pleasure to hear.
I should also note there was a transition period running somewhere between 225-nearly 300 hours where presentation pretty poor. Unit opened up on top, slight veiling disappeared and dynamics not fully developed. Presentation I'd most liken it to was when burning in rhodium connectors, somewhat hard, bright on top, thudding one note bass. Compared to the previously somewhat polite, forgiving nature of unit in earlier hours this was quite a slap in the face. Luckily I burned through silently during vast majority of this transition. Based on many previous burn in regimes I'm expecting a more stable floor with incremental improvements, especially in dynamic envelope. Transients should balance out between attack and decay for an even more relaxed presentation.
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@sns, by "stellar" I meant that LAiV's USB implementation, being galvanically isolated, is probably as good an implementation as can be found. I tried an iFi iPurifier 3 in the chain (Roon core > USB > LAiV) just for grins, and there was no improvement.
I also found the LAiV USB input to be on par with its I2S input, using a Gustard U-18. Switching between internal and external clocking on the LAiV yielded no noticeable difference either. Of course, that's a function of the clock quality in both the LAiV and the U-18.
In my 40+ years in this hobby, I've never heard MSB being described as analytical. That has not been my experience, having owned both the Analog DAC, and prior to that, the Signature DAC IV.
Looking forward to your additional thoughts once you start listening to the LAiV.
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@catastrofe In regard to usb I was specifically comparing Laiv to 006, my take based on manufacturer info is 006 takes more pains. In any case, I didn't hear any obvious issues using Laiv usb. Have Gaia cooking with Laiv via I2S at the moment in a small desktop system, can hear a difference between slaving to Gaia clock vs. using Harmony internal clock, not judging quality at this point.
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Now that's some Dac.Enjoy....
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After cooking for half a day, Harmony slaved to Gaia clock via I2S far superior to usb directly out of computer, this is to be expected as Gaia acting as 'buffer' from noisy general purpose computer, clocking aspect playing large role as well\. Comparing this I2S chain vs optimized usb in main system will be much more formidable 'opponent'.
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Just posted initial review of Laiv Harmony/Denafrips Gaia combo, 006 bested on virtually every parameter. I doubt 006 performance via usb likely to change much with burn in at a little over 300 hours. This means 006 would have to be advantaged by using it with Gaia via I2S, slave to Gaia clock or use internal clock?
Harmony/Gaia more natural or analog like presentation alongside all the audiophile sound qualities we look for, sorry, hands down loss for 006. Really quite surprised by this, I was very willing to accept present 006 sound quality as a 'long term' reference. To have it so easily bested by Harmony combo is one of those rare eye opening experiences, I don't experience this kind of domination much anymore, usually far more subtle differences at this level of equipment.
I'm still reserving final judgment, however, 006 partnered with Gaia via I2S could be the magic bullet?
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Where is the review?
I will be interested in your impressions of the Gaia with the 006 via i2S.
I'm still loving my 005 and feed it through i2S.
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As I wrote earlier I am also enjoying my 005. With a couple of new components in the system, I am finding it has yet more to give. Knowng the designer, and the reviewer here, as I do, I am certain the 006 is a good step up.
But I write now about the I2S into the 005, and possibly into the 006 (or other DACs). And it’s easier with the 006 as it has pin-out selectivity, not available in the 005.
I have been a sceptic of the DDC kind of approach taking the USB to I2S conversion out of the 005 (or 006) into a stand alone unit, For I think that implimentation is very well done internally by Musetec. I have always thought that a network player taking you from ethernet directly to I2S had to be the answer, bypassing any use of USB or SP/DIF for that matter. But for me an appropriate unit, without a Swiss Army Knife approach, was hard to find. But with a new device having pin-out selectivity from Iancanada I found that at a very reasonable price I’m achieving a performance level that I thought was far more expensive than I was willing to pay. And I’m only beginning--using what I would call the company’s mid-level combo and a $2 HDMI cable. I used to think this was the direction to go, and I have now proven it to myself. And there are actually several ways I can upgrade this initial set-up. And so on to a new adventure.
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@melm Can you explain in more detail what you are experimenting with. It sounds interesting. Are you building a network bridge/streamer that converts an ethernet signal to I2S?
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What I wrote about is a duplication of what is demonstrated here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc_QfRTbb6U&t=1113s
But without the screen. This is very easily put together. I first built something far more modest to test the quality of the Iancanada stuff. These are very high quality boards and can run up in price. The more modest experiment had sp/dif (which is closely related to I2S) and was at least equal to my much more expensive ethernet in-USB out network player to which was attached an expensive power supply. It also had I2S out which I couldn’t use with the oo5.
One can go quite a bit further than the first video. Of course the boards are not pretty; some people build cases for them. I’ll probably build a wooden box to throw over it when I’m done.
Iancanada is Ian Jin. Word is that he is a designer of computer medical equipment and this is his hobby.
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@dbb
I might mention that before going the Iancanada route I wanted to try the Magna Mano Ultra mk3 Farad network bridge that has both I2S and sp/dif outputs. It seems to be a very good unit (with a fine power supply) that doesn't break the bank. The problem for me was that the I2S output on the Magna requires an HDMI cable with the PS Audio pin-outs and the 005 requires the Gustard pin-outs. I looked far and wide for someone to make up a cable going from one to the other and came up empty. Since the 006 has pin-out options you also have more options.
As I understand it, the sp/dif standard takes the 4 signals from the raspberry pi (or other similar mini-computer within the device-often a raspberry pi) and combines them into the one sp/dif signal. Then the DAC internally separates them back to I2S within. Thus I2S direct avoids these two conversions. There are those who hear no difference; there are those who do.
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@car123 Not really a complete review, rather more impressions, more thorough review earlier. Thread is under Laiv Harmony.
I agree an I2S directly out of streamer, avoiding usb altogether would be a simpler solution. Issue is the quality of that I2S in streamer, does it have FIFO buffer FPGA logic and dual OXCO clocks like Gaia? I don't doubt you can diy build many streaming components, I've done and still do, just don't believe qualities of Gaia easily duplicated, I acknowledge there is steep price to pay with Gaia. I considered purchasing Pink Faun I2S card for my custom streamer (at present use only as server, Roon core), this would negate use of Sonore OpticalModule, OpticalRendu (this is my streamer/Roon endpoint) (optical conversion) and usb. The lesser quality implementation of I2S vs Gaia and loss of great benefits I hear from the optical conversion dissuaded me from going this route.
@melm I visited some cable site, somewhere in Asia, that builds I2S cables to spec, I'll try to recall site later today. Both Gaia and 006 allow custom pin configuration, my Gaia is 12th generation.
I now have Gaia connected to 006 via I2S, plan listening session soon.
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Thanks, interesting review/impressions of the Gaia-Harmony combination. I will also be very interested in your impressions of the 006-Gaia combination.
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@sns Sorry if I missed it, but did you decide on an i2s cable you like with the Harmony?
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@sns
Not sure I understand the value of fpga on a streamer, which should be a very simple device.
The unit I am now using also has a fifo buffer and uses 2 clocks, but I'm not sure they qualify as OXCOs. They are easily user replaceable and I am now using two Accusillicon clocks, a 45 and a 49. Though the Accusilicons are very good, I may very well move on to even better clocks. The Accusilicons, and any other clocks I may use, publish their phase noise data, which gives at least a hint as to their quality. What is known about the clocks in the Gaia? Also the PS in the unit I'm using is much like that on the digital side of the 005 and is further upgradeable.
In any event the first thing a DDC has to do is clean up the USB stream.
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@melm This will explain, https://www.denafrips.com/gaia Hans B. also has youtube video.
Custom termination I2S cables available at https://audiolund.com/?srsltid=AfmBOooxNn3WUk6YELU-7beiANY2By6w0AmymaEPdGRGGa84ZK9NN_Y2 These are I2S cables, only 9 pins wired, no video use.
OXCO clocks are temperature control in enclosed ovens, these highest quality femto clock, next comes TXCO, temperature control, no oven, then plain femto clock, no temp. control. Even within these clock types, quality varies. The OXCO clocks require relatively complex power supplies in order to supply constant temp control of clock, stability and precision of these clocks requires constant precise control of temp., this not easily or cheaply implemented. You may be able to upgrade your clocks with better non temp control femto, perhaps TXCO femto, the OXCO would require power supply upgrades.
@audiostick I originally ordered Tubulus Concentus I2S, @audioman58 gave me heads up on new reference Tubulus Ximius which I went down the rabbit hole with, this $1500 cable, Concentus $700. All Tubulus cables hand made in Netherlands, pure silver, air dialectic, no dialectic best, air closest to no dialectic. For more down to earth, presently using Jieotwice oxygen free copper $70 I2S. Obviously no complaints with this cable, Harmony/Gaia combo with this cable beat out 006.
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Ugh I'm so ticked, had an in depth review of nearly completed and my tab crashed, frickin Firefox!
Now I don't feel like starting all over!
For now, suffice to say what I'm hearing with Gaia/006 combo is totally freaking amazing!
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First off, I'm a relatively seasoned, somewhat jaded audiophile, decades of changes has informed me vast, vast majority of changes are only incremental, they can be negative, lateral, in that change is simply that, or positive. The way it normally works is many positive incremental changes add up to sea changes, these happen almost without notice. And then we have the rare change so profound it imposes an entirely fresh perspective. Adding the Gaia has been one of these rare changes that results in new insights.
The first thing I'll mention is the sheer resolving power of what I'm hearing, a noise floor that seems to subside into infinity or the blackest of black holes. I now hear the slightest inflections of voice, the touch of strings and the movement of the bow across those strings, with woodwinds the slightest intonation of breath. The result is a newfound intimacy with performers which brings about greater emotional involvement with the music. Allied to that is a more expansive sound stage with these fully developed dimensional ethereal images. Hate to use this word, but organic is what comes to mind. The illusion of live performers in my room comes so easily, no need for trickery of the mind to get here.
Crash tab break, in troubleshoot mode in order to try to alleviate.
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So now we come to presentation, 006 more natural than 005, Laiv Harmony more holistic than 006, this all via usb. Laiv/Gaia combo via I2S beats out 006 via usb, and now we have 006/Gaia combo beats out the Laiv/Gaia. The most noticeable thing here is newfound sense of ease and refinement, music seems to just flow. I'm now into full analog mode with this, I could fool myself into believing I was listening to vinyl minus the surface noise. Allied to this is more natural timbre, especially noticeable with both individual and massed violins. I've long thought digital really misses out to vinyl with violins, digital processing these into homogenized blobs, same with trumpets. Now I hear newfound texture and harmonic development that both individualizes and more naturally presents these instruments.
Crash break
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I may be forgetting something? In any case, nothing is ever perfect. I'm still hearing just a bit of flatness or lack of micro dynamic expression with 006, I continue to hear just the slightest improvement here, long, long development phase here, probably around 350 hours, I know these caps in 006, they can easily take 400 hours or more depending on the amount of current running through them. Also a bid of mid range excess, like a small frequency boost in this area, this likely due to cheapo copper I2S cable or new power cable (williewonka Helix design I use my own recipe on) I just finished assembling for Gaia. Burn in, especially with the Rhodium plugs can cause this as well.
More development with Gaia coming, custom made Tubulus I2S cable in Monday after 3 week wait. More burn in of Gaia and the power cord, perhaps new setup with Gaia, at present stock feet on Baltic Birch platformx, have many solutions available to me if I need to adjust presentation.
Bottom line feelings on I2S vs usb interfaces. I now believe usb is inferior to I2S by a relatively wide margin. I could more easily understand it with the Harmony, but the technology Musetec expended on usb in 006 made me doubt it. While I can't make this statement universally, any streamer I would possibly purchase in the future would have to include an optimized I2S out, one coming off motherboard doesn't count. All this optimization of usb is needless IMO. This all on streamer manufacturers, I2S inherent to dac's, I don't get why there isn't both standardization and optimization of this interface in streamers.
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Any conclusions re Gaia-006 vs Gaia-Harmony, ie is the Gaia that special in what it brings to both DACS?
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sns, Thank you for your thoughts and in depth reviews as things evolve.
I have owned an 004 for 4 years and have had many other dacs and always keep the 004. It's a great DAC especially at it's price point. I've been looking for a used 005. I have found the I2S input out of my inexpensive Xingcore USB to I2S converter input by my windows Jriver PC to be superior to straight USB to the 004. I Will look into the Gaia but also seeking the 005. Is the 005 a worthwhile step up from the 004? Thanks again for your time and effort with the reviews.
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@aw118
I’m sure others will chime in as several folks went from 004 to 005. But no question, it is a real step up.
The USB to I2S implemantation in the 005 is somewhat different in the 005 and should be better. Different power supply and slightly better clocks, but same Amanero board. As i've written, I have a prefernce for avoiding any use of USB.
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@aw118 pm me or look at usaudiomart ads if you are looking for a used 005.
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@car123 I'd estimate this review is as much about the Gaia as it is about 006. I'd expect a lesser DDC or less optimized I2S interface to bring less to the table so in my mind the Gaia is an absolute necessity to extract maximum potential from 006. For those who may not have or want to spend the kind of money Gaia requires I believe the Denafrips Hermes would give you a large measure of Gaia performance at a savings of around $700. You also don't need to spend crazy money like I did on I2S cable, the $70 cheapo I'm using presently is at least a decent short term solution.
@aw118 I've been through 004-006, 004 was only fodder for modifications for me, I was going to go through the entire regimen of mods over on the Headfi forum thread. Then the 005 came out, forget the 004 mods, 005 was akin to a modded 004 in my mind. The 005 proved to be a keeper, at least as resolving/transparent as 004, and more importantly far more musical. I was never unhappy with 005, never heard a single sin of commission over the years. At issue with me is, historically I live with dacs for perhaps up to three, four years, then get the itch to try something new. My plans were to get the Mola Mola then I believe it was @dbb who first mentioned the 006, went over the tech, no brainer purchase. If I were to offer advice on staying within Musetec family it would be to scrimp and save for the 006 if at all possible, gulf between 006 and 005 greater than 004 to 005.
I still have my 005 and Harmony, both will go out the door, I foresee 006/Gaia combo being my reference for the next several years. And between the Harmony and 005, I'd pick the Harmony with quality I2S interface all day over 005 via usb. 005/Gaia is not something I've tried and not really interested in trying since its leaving me, could be quite nice, however. I can only say really love the Harmony/Gaia solution, I could live with that a good long time
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@sns First, thank you for the time and effort. I think it is clear that your evaluation of the Harmony versus the 006 has had some dramatic ups and downs on the way to deciding which you find superior. Can you say a little more specifically why your final conclusion is you prefer the 006 over the Harmony when used with the Gaia. I ask because the Gaia/006 combination is slightly more expensive than the Gaia/Harmony combination. Some might wonder if the added expense of the 006/Gaia is worth it.
Also, just for the convenience of the future readers, I have cut and pasted here some of your comments on the 006 with the Gaia. If I omitted anything significant please comment. Here’s my cut and paste summary of you impressions:
For now, suffice to say what I'm hearing with Gaia/006 combo is totally freaking amazing! . . .
And then we have the rare [non-incremental] change so profound it imposes an entirely fresh perspective. Adding the Gaia [to feed I2S to the 006] has been one of these rare changes that results in new insights.
The first thing I'll mention is the sheer resolving power of what I'm hearing, a noise floor that seems to subside into infinity or the blackest of black holes. I now hear the slightest inflections of voice, the touch of strings and the movement of the bow across those strings, with woodwinds the slightest intonation of breath. The result is a newfound intimacy with performers which brings about greater emotional involvement with the music. Allied to that is a more expansive sound stage with these fully developed dimensional ethereal images. Hate to use this word, but organic is what comes to mind. The illusion of live performers in my room comes so easily, no need for trickery of the mind to get here.
[N]ow we have 006/Gaia combo beats out the Laiv/Gaia. The most noticeable thing here is newfound sense of ease and refinement, music seems to just flow. I'm now into full analog mode with this, I could fool myself into believing I was listening to vinyl minus the surface noise. Allied to this is more natural timbre, especially noticeable with both individual and massed violins. I've long thought digital really misses out to vinyl with violins, digital processing these into homogenized blobs, same with trumpets. Now I hear newfound texture and harmonic development that both individualizes and more naturally presents these instruments.
. . . I still have my 005 and Harmony, both will go out the door, I foresee 006/Gaia combo being my reference for the next several years. And between the Harmony and 005, I'd pick the Harmony with quality I2S interface all day over 005 via usb. 005/Gaia is not something I've tried and not really interested in trying since its leaving me, could be quite nice, however. I can only say really love the Harmony/Gaia solution, I could live with that a good long time
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FWIW, I am trying the Singer UIP-1 PRO Usb isolator high speed processor in between my MacBook pro and DA-005. On first listen using the stock power supply I thought it sounded bright and edgy. I switched to the Uptone audio LPS 1.2 power supply and it sounded subdued and warm. I switched back to the stock power supply but have it plugged into an isolation transformer and now it sounds quite good. More detail and transparency without the edge. I did not expect an improvement since the usb implementation within the DA-005 is supposed to already be optimized. Again, these are initial observations. Just wanted to report what I am hearing and in no way wish to derail this thread but I figure there are many DA-005 users here.
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Correction: Singxer UIP-1 PRO
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@dbb That's fine to use quotes.
As to why I'm choosing 006 over Harmony. Two overarching reasons. First is 006 simply more resolving than Harmony, the added resolution makes all the difference in the world for me. This added resolution wasn't simply perceived as mere information or detail, rather it brought performers/performances to life, I had much greater sense of actual living breathing humans making music. As I stated in prior post, with 006 I hear the slightest inflections in voices, the slightest changes in touch and breath with instruments, these are all things that make recordings, performers and performances unique and individual, and because they become unique and individual they reach into my emotions and/or soul and move me. I'll have to admit some special recordings brought a tear to my eyes, others were chilling what with the immense pleasure and joy they brought. I simply bought into what the performers and performances brought to my listening room, recordings I've listened for for decades became fresh and new. I could go on and on, listening to my system has become an anticipated event, something I've not experienced since early years as an audiophile when large changes came easy. My experience has been that as my system has incrementally improved over many years, consequential change harder to come by. In earlier days when I was exploring and experimenting with a far wider array of equipment I was more easily moved when changing out a piece. For instance, one peak experience was when I replaced a litany of solid state amps with tube Conrad Johnson MV-55 amp,simply awestruck. Many other experiences of this sort over the years. 006 via usb was incremental upgrade, Harmony via usb very similar, unique presentations had me wanting to keep both. At this point I could have lived with both as my reference dacs, but having long heard about ladder dac being extremely sensitive to inputs, I knew I was going to get another ddc in order to try I2S. (prior attempt with Singxer SU6 and 005 half hearted as I had other things on my plate at that time), so I went deep with Gaia. Harmony/Gaia combo rose above 006, similar level of resolution as 006, superior ladder dac presentation. Then 006/Gaia combo brought that extra measure of magical resolving power. So then we finally come to second reason to make 006 my reference dac, this being how the Gaia brought Harmony presentation to 006, the 006 now sounds much like the Harmony, sublime, refinement, ease, very holistic presentation. My digital now easily exceeds my vinyl setup, very similar presentation only with higher resolution. Haven't said much about transparency since this has long been excellent, even 005 excellent in this regard.
As for financials and evaluations of worth, you can likely get used 005 for something around $1700, used Harmony going for around $2400, new $2700, 006 around $3900. Going with usb and something less than high to highest system resolving powers, 005 and Harmony would be relatively close in resolution/transparency, Harmony more holistic presentation, extra resolution of 006 won't be fully realized. With I2S equation changes, 005 goes bye bye, extra money Harmony costs worth it, we're now above 006 via usb level, Harmony is your reference dac and can remain reference dac as you build up rest of system. The HarmonyGaia combo is one great digital source! So now lets say your system high resolving and have I2S solution, 006 your dac all day long. Invest more in first class i2S such as Gaia, Hermes may do, now you may have your dream dac! I'd also add any weak links in your entire streaming setup will take away from reaching full potential of 006, this means everything from modem to dac needs to be looked at and optimized. 006 capabilities are high, no sabre chip or any chip dac liabilities I can hear, Harmony in NOS mode is well respected ladder dac with ladder dac presentation, if 00t6 doesn't have this level presentation blame something other than 006. Add amazing level of resolution and you may have your dream dac. No sins of commission or omission I can detect. Only thing missing in estimation of 006 worth is long term listening impressions, sorry I still haven't learned time travel.
@jc4659 005 is a fine dac, it can serve as reference dac in many systems. I have a very mature system, every i dotted, t crossed and I didn't feel like 005 was a liability. My next dac was going to be Mola Mola Tambaqui, also had long term itch to try R2R dac.
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Thanks, sns, these are very interesting conclusion and may well cost me some money!
As I've said previously, I settled many months ago on feeding my 005 through I2s using the LKS usb 100 with matching power supply as my DDC. It beats usb in my system, which is quite incredible. But, I sense there is more available and I may buy a Gaia after returning from an international trip I am taking next week. That may be followed by an 006.
Please continue to offer you impressions as you listen more. Your reports are much appreciated.
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The LKS 100 uses relatively low level femto clocks, power supply meh, doubt the usb isolation really that good, you can do better. Still I could see a cheaper alternative to Gaia working if the i2s internal clock in 006 is of sufficient quality. I don't see this as long term solution, 006 deserves the best you can feed it, still it could provide some financial relief in short run if finances are a question. It wont apply to every situation, but I'll try local clock next time I listen, thus far only slaved/sync to Gaia clock.
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I'm sure I can do better than the lks 100. It provided a very happy stopping point a couple years back. But, now that we are moving into the winter, and I am developing an itch to see about improving the system, I will likely get the Gaia. I learned long ago that there getting a lesser quality alternative always costs more in the end.
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@car123 Totally agree with last sentence.
Simply escaped me, too much on plate at the moment, but for those staying with 005 my ratings didn't take into account 005/Gaia combo. I haven't tried it since 005 boxed up and ready to go, but I'd bet on that being very, very nice. Hermes at lower price point as well.
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sns how do you sync the 006 to the Gaia clock?
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how do you sync the 006 to the Gaia clock?
I believe Gaia is connected to 006 over i2s which has clock signals as part of the spec. However, its upto the receiver to take it or leave it. Many DAC's don't use the incoming clocks over i2s (one good example is PS Audio DirectStream) as most of them are riddled with jitter. I am not sure what 006 implements. If 006 sounds better over i2s than usb, it could be the i2s data itself, it could be a better clock signal or it could be a combination of both. If you notice a better timing and rhythm, it likely the clocks are at play.
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