Finally found THE SPEAKER!!!

power my Duetta Sigs with a BAT VK250. Can get the Duettas to play very loud without distortion or fatigue.




You haven't heard what an apogee can do until you actively bi-amp them with well over a 1000 watts per channel using quality amps. 

@dukeofdoowop
Hi Duke... I think I may have addressed some of your questions, but not directly so I will try to do that here.

When you say over modulated, do you mean "distorted" or just louder than what you think they should be? We use over modulated to mean distortion so I am wondering if you just mean levels. Based on the rest of your thread I am going to assume it refers to level.

Again - what you are describing is the "dynamic" range issue.

Here is how things play in a mix. Dialogue (DX) is king. It is the reference level for the track. We play DX at a comfortable level while we are mixing and everything is relative to that. One of the ways we can make a scene louder without having to kill the audience - (yes believe it or not, MANY of us try to do this with our mixes) is to let the music and/or SFX (sound effects) drown out the DX without having to resort to things just getting stupid loud. As a viewer you know that the car, plane, train, whatever is loud now because the DX is now drowned out by the SFX.

I know this is not what you are talking about, but just thought I would share. Now there is one director in particular who does tend to burry DX (dialogue) with music with EXTREME level. Many of us have complained about this in the industry but again it is the director's vision so be it.

A center channel absolutely should help with your issue. My previous suggestions of raising the center channel by a few dB and maybe engaging the DRC Dynamic Range Correction algorithms built in to most DVD players and/or receivers might help achieve the "version" of the film mix you enjoy more.

There are also film enthusiasts that go full blow Atmos home theater and want that Theatrical dynamic range that is absolutely part of the movie going experience.

I have SO many headphones, but my goto personal music listening are my Focal Utopias. These have weight, detail, depth, dimension etc.... But they don't have what a full range loudspeaker can deliver. It doesn't give me sound I can also feel.

As a violinist I also feel the music. To be honest I haven't played my violin for at least 8 years now... not sure why it just sort of became less and less of my life. Talking about it makes me want to open the case and see if my fingers can still do the dance! Anyway... playing in an orchestra you can absolutely FEEL the music in your body as well as just your ears. I guess it would be like just tasting with your tongue and not your smell - you are not using all of your senses to their fullest... in my opinion.

I have no problem with levels in my own home with regards to film playback and this is not playing things at reference level most of the time. I am not utilizing any compression, but I guess I am ok with a little more dynamic pop than some. HA!

Your iPad experience is simply this. Those limited range speakers are designed to favor the DX range of the audio frequency which if you prefer DX only/mostly will work in your favor. I on the other hand miss the power of the score, SFX that bring to the film experience. Many filmmakers recognize that SOUND if at least 50% of the movie going experience.

Does any of this help???

Again... nobody is right or wrong about their own personal preference(s).

Glad to discuss further but as usual I get lost in the weeds as I ramble on here.

@french_fries
I hear your frustration and the films you gave as examples are action films. When we are mixing these films for Theatrical release we strive for dynamic range on purpose. We monitor the mixes in carefully calibrated dub stages with EQ and volume settings that are used industry wide.

You are one of the people who appears to not like dynamic range in your movie/TV viewing experience. I get that. But there are a LOT of people that do enjoy the power that sound can deliver to the movie going experience.

We actually do what is called a "near field mix" for home viewing with is a compressed version of this very thing. We use small near field speakers and monitor the mix at "lower" to "much lower" reference level depending on the studio, director, etc... What happens with a lower reference level is that the quieter scenes end up getting raised while the louder scenes stay the same. We are compressing the dynamic range from the bottom up in this case.

I am one who advocates for this as LONG as a version of the uncompressed version of the track is kept in tact. After all... There are those of us who want a Theatrical experience at home.

Certain studios and/or directors demand that the track stay in tact which means no compressed home version.

If the compressed version is still not to your liking most DVD/Bluray players as well as surround processors have built in compression algorithms that might help you with your situation.

You indicate that all that matters to you is dialogue, which I would agree that dialogue is king in the mix, but is not all that matters by a LARGE degree than I might also suggest raising your center channel by 3 to 4 dB or to your liking.

We as a filmmaking society actually work very hard to NOT make a mix painful and to not play everything too loud. Sure it happens, but more time and effort is put into delivering the director's vision of his/her film than you may be aware of during the editing and mixing of the soundtrack.

Dynamic range is not something new and in fact is something I look for in a speaker as I not only enjoy female vocalists, jazz, blues, etc... but films, classical music, rock, country, and the list goes on.

Classical music composers have utilized the power of dynamic range to convey emotion for hundreds of years!

I love classical music. I have played violin since I was in First grade and I am quite a bit older than that now.

As a musician I can also tell you that playing music at a lower level that what is intended will also change the emotion of said piece.

"There's no way I would subject a good pair of speakers designed to reveal separate instruments in an ensemble or do justice to a folksinger plus guitars, banjo, string bass, and so on."  No offense, but this in a nutshell expresses my frustration over the many years of listening to loudspeakers. Why not have a speaker that can deliver everything? Every single speaker that I have heard in the past that supposedly were intended to deliver the nuance of an ensemble, etc... well they couldn't even play at a level that remotely came close to what an orchestra can reproduce in those moments I wanted to listen to them, let alone playback rock, country and forget about film.

So this comes down to the personal preference of the buyer, viewer and my personal choice is not to buy a speaker that limits what I can play on it.

The Wisdom Audio speakers I have auditioned EXCEL at detail and nuance. Remember that what you are talking about is transient response time of a driver. The planar magnetic speakers deliver this in spades! A violin sounds like a violin without any harshness that one can get from so many domes, horns, etc... At least in my experience.

My first requirement was how does the speaker play music. Then I would proceed to films. When I finally found one that could do both at the peak of the game was I satisfied.

I've owned DYNAMIC speakers that could bang out rock, but I never liked them as HiFi. 

Thank you for your input and I hope my response is taken in the spirit in which it is given.

Thank you!

 I also inherited my love of audio equipment from my father, albeit from a different era. I inherited his AR2's, went to AR3's, wharfdales, Dahlquist DQ10's and DQ20's, even a pair of Tannoys the size of a refrigerator. Over decades, my system has evolved to a pretty high end system with five McIntosh components and Aerial speakers including their powered subwoofer. My system has always included a home theater aspect to it. I think that many of us are frustrated in the quest for speakers that excel in the context of both music and theater.

I agree with @french_fries that movie production values are part of the problem. We have all experienced the problem of over-modulated sound effects and music drowning out the dialog  (assuming the actors can actually speak so the listener can understand them.) We were all led to believe that this problem would be addressed by dedicated center speakers. In this regard, the dialog of some movies is actually more easily understood on an iPad. 

Do you think that the speakers you have chosen will address this problem?

Just want to say enjoy hearing about your industry experience. And, had not known about wisdom audio before. Always eager to hear about new products & technology. Appreciate grace with which you respond to haters.

After getting Lord of the Rings on DVD and Blu Ray, I would have to crank up the volume to hear soft conversations by the actors, and then reduce the volume rapidly to save my hearing  during "action" sequences of any kind. Same for Avatar, Independence Day, etc. There's no way I would subject a good pair of speakers designed to reveal separate instruments in an ensemble or do justice to a folksinger plus guitars, banjo, string bass, and so on. That's not to say Wisdom Audio makes a bad product or JBL makes a punchy sound but lacks finesse.
So that's my only problem with this article- it's not about speakers- it's about radically different ways sound engineers mix a movie with ENORMOUS variations in volume from minute to minute, and music-only albums which are mixed from PP to FF 95% of the time. The there's the issue of how well recorded the music is in the 1st place, and the same goes for movies made long ago to today's blockbusters. I don't mean to be sour grapes, but a Bette David movie is recorded so you can hear every word, which to me just makes common sense since the script is the most entertaining part. 

Made in USA!!! like election 😀

Andrew, What kind of a system are you doing , 7.2? Multichannel class D amps are fine for the surround speakers. I would use amps like QSC PLX 3602 's for subwoofers (Class H) and I would use serious amps for the main speakers. These are all going to generate heat. Pass 600.8's or Parasound JC1+ would be fabulous. There is also Boulder and Constellation if you want to spend more money. 
If you want to lower distortion further you want to cross to the subwoofers higher up no lower than 80  Hz using a high pass filter on the main amps.
One subwoofer will not do it. My guess is you will need four. You like the line sources because they project power. You can not use them well with a point source subwoofer. You have to create a line source subwoofer to match correctly. My guess is you will need at least 4 to create the array.
You can't put them in the wall but they can be positioned on the floor right against the front wall where they will be out of the way. Please check out the Trinnov processor https://www.trinnov.com/altitude32/  This is a major cool unit and it has a great subwoofer crossover in it.
Please, what are some of your movies. I collect Blu Ray discs. I might have some already!

I heard the floor standing Wisdom Audio.  I don't know how that would compare to the in walls.
drewde, can you share those demo tracks you use?  Always looking for hidden gems. 

@richmos - nice to hear. I actually bought a BAT VK-225SE for me dad to power his ML hybrids. I was very impressed with the sound quality and the BAT pack tech has really been upgraded for those moments when a jolt of extra current it required. Very full sound. I’m definitely a BAT loyalist. Victor has always been helpful when I’ve called him as well.

@drewde, I have heard the in wall line sources. Not sure which model.
They are good. I'm not sure the situation was optimal. If I were putting them in I would go to town reinforcing the wall. I would make a sound wall with 2 X 6 staggered studs' and I would mount the blue board with construction adhesive to prevent buzzing. I still would be inclined to use subwoofers. On a 16 foot wall I space 4 of them 5 feet apart. 
They are very dynamic and like any other line source they cast a large image which I prefer. They are not the last word in detail and transient response but they are better than most dynamic speakers for sure. With the right power they will go crazy loud. At normal loud levels they are effortless .  I assume they are part of a theater system? I would get a Trinnov Theater processor 8, 16 or 32 channels. It will provide your subwoofer crossover and help level things off. There are acoustic advantages of in wall mounting. You prevent early reflections off the front wall but you still have to deal with the side walls. Floor and ceiling are not a problem because they are line sources. So just the side walls need to be treated. 
I prefer line source ESLs but this sure could be the basis for a great system. 
What are some of your Movies?!

Mike

@nordicnorm
Thank you. Yes I have been looking at that very option in particular with the Crown amps. I need a lot of power with multiple amps. If I was only doing stereo my amp choice would be much easier. It will be a lot of amps rack mounted and need to be concerned about thermal issues. Hence my thoughts on class-d. I am hoping the HiFi community has some experience with that type of amplification.

Thank you!

If you’re looking for that kind of power, consider pro amps (Yamaha, Crown, Soundcraftsmen, etc.).

I have a pair of Soundcraftsmen PM860 monoblocks (from the 70’s) that I’ve recapped. They put out 900W at 4Ω. Fed by a tube preamp, they sound wonderful! My Martin Logan Spires love them!

I get that everyone has their own opinions on stuff. That doesn't invalidate another's opinion. They are just that.

I had not posted before on this site because of this very belief. Most speaker arguments come down to how you the individual hear the world. how you think it should sound, and what you like to listen to. This last one is where I found problems. I wanted a speaker that didn't care what I was listening to or at what level I was listening to. Once I experienced that with a speaker - I felt it was time to share. I like to listen to classical, rock, EDM, female vocal, country and of course films!

An example of other peoples opinions. I used to read reviews of DVD / Bluray discs. Don't remember the site, but they would evaluate the quality of the video transfer as well as the audio. While I found the site helpful, it was also misguided from my point of view when it came to what they valued in regards to "quality" of the audio. Things like... did they have a lot of information in the surround speakers, good use of the subwoofer, etc... ??? Absurd! We put what is appropriate information into the surrounds, subwoofer, etc... to support the telling of the story and to convey the emotions of the scene. On top of that - we are delivering the director's vision of her/his film. But... the reviewer had their own opinion as to what was good or bad based on a personal belief. For them what made a good soundtrack was not what any of us in the professional audio community would see as important (and in fact we would often laugh at these very reviews) but to this reviewer that was key.

Anyway I digress as usual. 

My intent was to make people aware of my own journey and personal discovery. Like I stated before I have been looking into speakers for so long it was my weekend hobby. I would travel with a handful of CDs and a flash drive with my music demos to audition. That way I was always listening to the same source material no matter where I went. You get to know these tracks intimately.

I like what I have heard with the Wisdom Audio speakers. If you have not heard them well you owe it to yourself to go and listen to them. Who knows... you might like them too! If you don't. No problem. Just enjoy the ride!

@almirante
You are entitled to your own opinions. It is a free country! These are my opinions. Just that.

@wweiss
I understand your feelings about that religious experience. I had that with listening to a pair of Focal Grande Utopias at my dealers shop. He also happens to be a guitar player and so he was listening to a bass solo when I walked in... Detailed, power, weight to each note. Not sure what it is that makes the "special sauce" when everything in a speaker works just right to give you that magical experience.

I have had that with a few speakers in my past. The thing for me now is the fact that I can actually get that with a speaker that is in the wall. In the past, to get the best from my speakers I had to get them at least 3' from the wall.

I heard a demo of a Wisdom Audio complete system.  It was an incredible first time experience. Maybe second experience, the time I heard Brothers in Arms through a pair of Apogees in the 80's was a religious experience I have never forgotten.
Large listening room, sound was coming from everywhere, hard to explain.  I am a Golden Ear Triton Reference owner, but this was in a completely different league! And price $$$$

Hello Everyone, this is a nice thread.    Just a little update from Wisdom.   We are in the process of building a completely new website.    Should resolve many of your concerns.    We plan to launch very soon.   Just beta testing it now.   Stay tuned.

I do work for Wisdom.    

I do not believe one single word of this guy. It seems cheap publicity. Bla,bla,bla,....

For the last 5 years I have been looking for speakers that can play films at reference levels with all the detail and punch, yet when I want to listen to music can give that nuanced and detailed imaging, space, air, articulation without being harsh and fatiguing.

Glad that you found your speakers! 👍

When you are in the industry and do sounds for film and have that for a living.

I just maybe misunderstanding what "reference level" means. Feels like a strong buzz word to me.

What I think the definition of reference level is for me or what I have learned.
It is when you have your home cinema receiver in volume with dB scale and going from ~ -100 dB up to full volume at 0.0 dB (some may go over to the positive side)

So I were told that reference level were full volume 0.0 dB?!

Now I am only a simple 2ch guy, but are you guys playing at 0.0 dB most of the time?!

Yes I know it is a side note but I get curious when this word "reference level" is thrown around because it sounds cool to say or actually people blast away at 0.0 dB all day long?

From the intro I was expecting a story about Avantgarde.  Bought a used pair of Unos about 10 years ago.  Amazing then. Still amazing now.  30 watt Cary valve amp enough for rock concert levels in the living room. No audible distortion at any level. 😃

Fun discussion. Good luck with all this. I have a few professional sound friends, one at the Ranch in Marin, another in post at the Presidio and one freelance but mostly involved in documentary filmmaking for TV. I love to listen to them discuss mic placement. I'm a physics guy, so I understand the science, but the art of what you do is special.

To your question about in-walls, I bought a pair of L-85s from Noble Fidelity a few years ago. The speakers are superior to most in-walls under $1000/pair, imho. I never expected them to match my previous setup from Dick Sequerra, but I needed something in the ceiling and frankly, they sound really great for things like organ music when paired with my old M&K sub. Problem with in-ceilings is that they're in the ceiling and with Covid, we're all working from home and every room is filled, so speakers in the ceiling are also speakers in the floor and that's a non-starter. Also, the reason I reference the organ is because in most places with an organ the sound is up, so an in-ceiling speaker makes sense. But for a Yo-yo Ma cello solo, the sound comes from the wrong place. The Noble Fidelity owner was great to work with and the product is quality. And they're in Reno. My kids actually prefer the Nobles to the On-wall Maggies I replaced them with, but I think that will change as I get the Maggies better dialed in.

I still have an M&K Volkswoofer, probably the same model you bought in 1980 - wasn't that demo that M&K did back then phenomenal? If you saw their roadshow, they'd setup the sat/sub combo and play a jazz recording with no noise. The initial cymbal crash would knock you out of the room because everyone was used to the sound of the needle on the record before the music started. I didn't like the satellites; they were too bright for me,  but the sub was amazing used with various of Sequerra's setups. I've always lived in small houses (San Francisco Victorians), so I don't buy huge speakers, but I love the beauty.

G

@tvad EXACTLY!!!

I use that example all the time! A scary movie ceases to be scary without the sound! And that is the more obvious ones. The subtle stuff that we do affects people just as much but isn't as in their face.

Sound is at least 50% of the movie going experience!!!

Best!

I saw the in-wall 75 listed for $16K/pair (not certain if the SC was incuded in that price).

Think it was an ad here @ A'Gon.

DeKay

Audio is a very difficult thing to discuss. In fact when working with directors I usually ask them to give me an emotional road map of what they want to feel when and where. The I can construct an audio map to affect those emotions. My job is not to simply put a door knock where a door knock goes. It is to tell story with sound. That door knock can be lazy and slow, fast and panicked, fast and quiet, etc... each one of those tells a different emotion. The same goes for what backgrounds you hear or don't hear. When I work with the best directors they truly understand the power of sound and will ask for things like... give me something here that pushes those characters apart, or makes them feel more intimate, etc...

I love my job and I love what sound can do for movies. Hence my passion for how I listen to my work as well as others at home!

@dekay @tvad 

These were some other reviews I found in my research:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/wisdom-audio-insight-p4i-wall-speaker-system

https://www.gramophone.com/Wisdom-Audio-Trip

https://www.audioholics.com/outdoor-speaker-reviews/wisdom-audio-sage-fl

https://www.residentialsystems.com/technology/wisdom-audios-ls4-line-source-loudspeaker

When I was up at the factory - they were doing a "dealer training" thing. Not exactly what it is all about, but they fly the dealers come out for a few days and train them on installations, room acoustics, etc... I don't know if all manufacturers do this as I am not in that part of the business. I met a couple of the dealers during a lunch break which I jumped in on for the free food! It was actually really interesting to meet and talk with some of these folks. They were so excited about sound just like me. It was refreshing to see this from my point of view. As an audio professional I always wonder if anyone else cares as much about this stuff as we do. We joke about it all time while on the dub stage that we are worried about the smallest of details - and then someone will say "It will sound great on my kids iPad. We all laugh and also cringe since we know this is the case with so many viewers.

Anyway - I had to split my time between the Theater they have setup and the stereo listening room depending on what the dealers in training had scheduled. This was not obviously the ideal time to be up on the tour for me, but it also was the only time that fit into my work schedule.

My point as I ramble on here.... One of my listening times in the stereo room they went through the line of speakers from the bottom to the top as they were playing them for the dealers. I got to hear the "lower" end stuff which is still expensive. Then again when I can walk into a Best Buy and purchase B&W 800 diamond series...

My suggestion to friends that start shopping for speakers is to always hear what "the best" thing is a dealer, speaker co, etc... have to offer. Try to listen what is available today with current technology. Then move down the lineup to find the sweet spot where budget and expectations meet. You can always say I only have this much - which most all of us have. Yes, my limit might more than you are willing to spend, but I know many that spend significantly more than I could even imagine. There is a point of diminishing returns. That is the line where only you can decide what is good enough.

Switching to TV since that is easier to talk about than audio for comparison... Some people are not bothered by grey looking blacks on a lower end LCD, while others can't stand it and need FALD backlighting or better yet OLED. I would fall in the FALD/OLED category. It will always bug me to see grey blacks and know it should look better. I have experience this with my own family... once they were shown what it could look like and should look like, they were no longer satisfied with the lesser quality display system.

@tvad HA!

Shhh... I haven't told my wife it will be that much yet! Actually we have been saving for the remodel for years and I had a certain amount to spend however I wanted for electronics AV. This remodel has been in planning and saving for well over 5 years. I have been fortunate to keep working during the pandemic so it has not hit me as much as so many others. I am thankful for that of course.

Yes it is a lot of money. This is my swan song, so I am going all out. Won't be playing feeding the addiction after this.

I wish there were more reviews by trusted / reputable magazines on the Wisdom speakers.

I am guessing on this but It feels to me that these speakers/systems are made for customers that want the best and don't necessarily do the type of homework many of us do. I am NOT rich but I am put a huge amount of our remodel $$ into the sound system since it is what I do for a living and my passion.

The rest of the home is going to be in ceiling speakers that are best bang for the buck!

Speaking of which... any suggestions on in ceiling speakers for whole house music. Party mode type of thing??

Focal? B&W? Polk??

Thank you!

@Tom8999

The Maggies share the same technology and have the same benefits.

The Wisdom I believe is a refinement on this tech and the direction I am heading. Part of my decision has been hearing a properly setup Dolby Atmos theater using the Wisdom Audio speakers. Again - this was after I heard them in stereo Music mode first.

Honestly - that is what did it for me. I knew that these speakers could actually deliver what I was looking for.

They don't post prices so I only have prices from my local dealer for the items I am looking at using in my home.

I am looking at installing the speakers in wall so I ended up not getting a quote for the L75.

The Line 2 are 10k each
Probably use a Sage Point 3 for the center - 5k
Sage C38i for rear - 4.7k
STS sub - 11k

Yes, almost 10 years ago.

I didn't see the 75 listed on their current site.

There was also an SC-2, but I could not locate a list price.

DeKay

Tvad:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/wisdom-audio

DeKay

Andrew - welcome to Audiogon - I have enjoyed this thread. I would like to expand this discussion with one topic - Price point. I checked out Wisdom Audio’s website along with others and I am amazed at the variety but no mention of cost. 

I have been been an owner of Maggie’s for over 30 years and it is gratifying to see other people improve on their concept - sturdier frames, better crossovers, the addition of subs for better low end. But I am apparently on a much lower budget for my equipment vs. others - as I always do a cost / benefit analysis prior to making any system changes.

Thanks for expanding my knowledge of what is out there. I will still be happy with my two systems here at home - Maggie 1.7i ($2100) with a Krell K300i integrated amp ($7000), biamped to a Maggie DWM pushed by a Son of Ampzilla ($2800) - my source is a LUMIN T2 ($4500). My Theater Room uses a Peter Gunned set of Maggie 1.6qrs( $3500), pushed by a Krell S550i integrated amp, still waiting on my custom built SWARM subwoofers from Duke ($3500) - source is a LUMIN D2 ($2200).

if you are ever in South Carolina - let me know and come by for a listen! I always have wine and cheese available and you will get a great view of the Blue Ridge mountains for free!

my Dad also introduced me to Audio as I grew up - he built his own speakers by the way.

Happy Listening

Very hard to use their website...it is kind of a mess.

Anyway, glad you are happy...that is the goal.

So, Magneplaners with a mix of sub-woofers and some boxes in the mix.

Like I said, glad you are happy.  Assume you auditioned the various Maggies as well and chose these instead.

Enjoy!

@drewde glad to hear this was pre-COVID. I have also lost people. Always good to make such things clear.

I have spent many years with Acoustat speakers and love the electrostatic sound. I’m now on GoldenEar Triton Ones. Glad you like your speakers.

Hang in there.

tvad -

I have heard the Monterey speakers (Excellent) but not the Eurekas. There are so many excellent sounding speakers it is overwhelming. I also really like the sound of the ATC speakers, but there they are not attractive for the family room!

I did not hear the Monterey in Burbank - I was at some event, can't remember. Didn't realize they were in Burbank. Sounds like a fun visit. I should stop by and take another listen!

What a blessing^^
Thank YOU JESUS!

What would you all suggest for amplifiers? I am looking for 500 w/ch @4 Ohms. Since I am planning on 7.2.4 atmos setup I will need a fair bit of amplification seeing as most of the speakers will be bi-amped. 

With that I am leaning towards class-d.

Any input / experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

I want to hear these!

My first job out of college was working at Danetracks, if you know them or Dane.

Oops!!! Didn't mean to hit send

One of the things I have noticed is theaters equipped with Dolby Atmos are moving away from single large diaphragm driver to multiple small drivers. There has always been an issue of comb filtering with this, but somehow they are able to minimize this problem and are getting the quicker transient response of a smaller speaker, but still able to move a lot of air.

The better dub stages have been upgrading the main speakers as well. We used to use 2 way speakers and still do in many rooms, but now the move is 4-way speakers that sound significantly better.

I have completely digressed away from my original post, but I am really enjoying the feedback.

whart - I am not at Pixar, but based out of one of the major studios in Hollywood. 75 rooms is counting all of the different editing, design, small QC rooms, etc. It is a guesstimate on my part, but realistic in my opinion.

You are exactly spot on with regards to the home theater vs. purist audio comparison. Trying to find speakers that could do it all was my goal.

I considered the Meyers Bluehorn speakers. Excellent speakers. However my tastes when I put my "purist audio" hat on is for something other than horn systems.

I feel like with what I have demoed with the Wisdom speakers I can be happy with them doing double duty and not feel like I am making a compromise.

I am not yet sure what amps I will use. Wisdom sells their own amps, but honestly I don't think I can afford them. I have been looking at the class-D amps from ATI. When I auditioned the speakers at the factory they used their own amps which are rated at 500w/ch @4Ohm. The ATI amps can deliver this as well and are more affordable. The other issue is of course that the particular series of Wisdom speaker I am considering needs bi-amplification. I am interested in the LINE source series, but they also make point source.

One of the things I have noticed in the film industry 

@parker65310...I power my Duetta Sigs with a BAT VK250. Can get the Duettas to play very loud without distortion or fatigue.

Andrew

thanks for your wonderful post.  That you found an end game speaker that happily lives in the 2 worlds is wonderful, my old Apogees were pretty happy playing in the 2 worlds when space was restricted but in building a new house I designed a dedicated music/theatre room and had the luxury of putting separate systems in .. as well as a couple of Guitar amps, though I ran out of room to put the PA in as well .. Lol .. like you I have been thru a sh#% load of speakers over 48 years.  In the end its just about enjoying your new system, there is always a better system out there somewhere.  Take care.

Rosco

Your characterization of these speakers certainly sounds plausible. My Apogees are magnetostatic ribbon speakers (all magnets and ribbons) and they too can do it all. There truly are few full range ribbon speakers producers. Typically they are pretty expensive and they are quite sensitive in regard to component matching. It’s also difficult for a speaker designer to get their designs just right. An example was the Carver Amazings. Check out their Stereophile review. Its a good teaching in the complexity and pitfalls of speaker design (and they were actually hybrid ribbons speakers). My Duetta Signature IIs are as picky as it get when it comes to speaker cables and they want a lot of current to really shine across the frequency spectrum. I’ve got a beast of a single ended, dual monoblock in a single chassis BAT (Balanced Audio Technology) VK-600 with bat pack that produces a huge amount of current. Cheers!