Experiences moving from high-power to lower-power system
Dear all,
For years I have been pursing a track of higher and higher power solid-state amplification with medium-to-low efficiency floorstanding speakers. I don't wish to start another tube vs. solid state thread. And we all know the benefits of more, often Class A, power: better headroom, transient response, imaging, soundstage, low-end control. Rather, I want to ask about the experiences of folks who have traded in higher-power for lower-power setups. What were the tradeoffs? What got better? What got worse? Was it a question of fit with the space? Answers can be from folks with super-high-efficiency speakers and flea-watt amps, tube or solid state, or transitions to setups that are less extreme.
B&W801 driven by Jadis 500 gave most powerful bass in my room.
High efficiency full range speaker driven by 300B gave beautiful human voice.
I get the best of both worlds- I run Classic Audio Loudspeakers which go down to 20Hz but are also 98db 1 watt/1 meter.
I run them with tube amps that have full power bandwidth to 2Hz, and unmeasurable distortion and lower power levels. I get the best bass I've ever had in my room, along with the most realistic voices (and other instruments too). The amp makes about 45 watts into the 16 ohms of the speakers.
If you really want this to happen, the higher impedance of the speaker is really helpful to the performance of the amplifier!
Ok, this is weird. I just posted the above comment and it got logged under another's userid. Is AG having a problem? I have been on the fence on this for awhile deciding whether to go down this path or not. Never pulled the trigger because there are too many conflicting opinions on this route. Not too long ago one's options were between high powered amps with low sensitivity speakers or SE flea amps with single driver HE speakers. But in recent years that has changed as newer speakers are becoming more efficient and compatible with "lower" powered SE tube amps. The comment that this type of system "isn`t for everyone" is frequently made. I would go further and say flea amps and single driver speaker combo systems are only for the few.
I have been on the fence on this for awhile deciding whether to go down this path or not. Never pulled the trigger because there are too many conflicting opinions on this route. Not too long ago one's options were between high powered amps with low sensitivity speakers or SE flea amps with single driver HE speakers. But in recent years that has changed as newer speakers are becoming more efficient and compatible with "lower" powered SE tube amps. The comment that this type of system "isn`t for everyone" is frequently made. I would go further and say flea amps and single driver speaker combo systems are only for the few.
After many years with inefficient speakers and the appropriate amps to drive them my own curiosity got the best of me. I’m somewhat budget constrained (lower end of the audiophile totem pole) which is a bit challenging when trying to put together a SET/high-efficiency system but with plenty of research behind me I started with the speakers and purchased Omega’s Super 3i. To get a handle on the sound I paired them with several amps I have in storage. Good start. Long story short, about 3 months later I ordered a Decware SE84UFO (2 wpc). The reported synergy I read about was immediate and obvious. I’ve since added a nice NOS DAC and Omega’s DeepHemp 8 Subwoofer. This is the most satisfying system I’ve put together .. tone, nuance, coherence, soundstage .. everything improved. Late night listening is a joy. No doubt this type of system isn’t for everyone but for me, I can’t imagine going back.
So, not too much, not too little. I in fact always thought that custom amp was the way to go. In fact, custom speakers too, but that’s another subject.
how would your speakers sound with 800 watts of tube power ? Or it would just be a waist of electricity and tubes ?
An output transformer that could manage 800 watts would not be full bandwidth. So, probably not as good. Another issue would be the noise floor, which would be higher. In most cases, its likely that distortion would be higher too, since my speakers require so little power, an 800 watt amp would be operating in a region where its distortion is actually nearly that of full power. So I think it would be a waste- with that kind of power, at the very least a speaker of less efficiency would be good for the amp.
We do make an OTL that makes a little over 500 watts. That one seems to run fine on those speakers. I never need the power though...
I don't understand speaker specs and such but I understand the concept that some can be driven effectively with lower watts (efficient) while others take more watts (less efficient).
So, does efficiency have any bearing on SQ across the board?
Does a more efficient speaker necessarily sound better at lower volume than a less efficient one.
I've heard that my speakers (Aerial Acoustic 7B towers) are not efficient and require a lot of power. To me they sound good at low volume but I have nothing to compare them to.
One thing I can tell you is that you don't have to sacrifice anything by getting more efficient and easier to drive speakers! I've yet to hear anything with more resolution and my speakers go down flat to 20Hz. The are 98 db, so I don't need a lot of power. I usually run them with 60 watt tube amps, which allow me nearly unlimited volume levels. I am very used to going over to friend's houses and hearing systems with 800 watts and realizing that by comparison, their systems are smaller and less capable because they lack the dynamic range and resolution. That old adage about smaller amps sounding better may apply; certainly if you are careful you won't miss the more powerful/less able amplifiers! The trick is the speaker...
More than the amp, it depends on the speakers and the ability to drive them with a certain number of watts.
Years and years ago I had gotten myself down what turned out to be a cul-de-sac, with Muse model 175 monoblocks (the high current version) and Thiel 3.6's. Audiophile approved, but I wasn't happy. My local dealer got me to ditch them and moved to Cary CAD-301SE driving ProAc Response 2.5's. So much more listenable. That's an extreme example, but it's always horses for courses.
Thank you for your question. This was spurred by listening to a friend's setup in a comparable-sized room, using an old Sansui integrated and Polk 5s. What stood out is how good it sounded at low volumes. The sound stage was smaller, but almost better because of it. Everything sounded more integrated, like music should be. It's a bit like that old notion of where you want to be sitting in the concert hall, up close so that each instrument is distinct in space, or further back where everything is blended into a harmonious whole. In the end, the setup was perfect for the room. To answer your question, I think it's in large part about fitting the system to the room, but perhaps there are other benefits of a lower-power system: smaller # of parts, higher-quality of said parts for same price, leading perhaps to better resolution at the volume they were designed to be played at, or, a narrower soundstage that may sound better in a smaller room. I don't really know. Now my friend's system in particular was not more resolving than mine, but I think my point is that his stereo is almost perfectly adapted to its environment. The interesting thing is that the market for low-power system is really bimodal: either low-cost products meant for the casual consumer or astronomical speciality combinations of efficient speakers and low-power amps.
Interesting question. My main system has a high power SS "tube like" amp Conrad Johnson MF 2300A with Magneplanar 1.7's. It sounds wonderful. But I started wondering what a single ended tube amp would sound like. Obviously it would take a lot of $$$ to drive Maggies in a large room with a single ended tube amp so, being rather short changed in the mullah department I bought a ChiFi single ended pentode amp for the princely sum of $300 to drive a set of Paradigm Atoms in near field listening in my office setup. Al I can say is it's been an amazing revelation. The level of "presence" for lack of a better term is just amazing to me. I find I'm spending a lot of time in my office and reluctant to turn the system off and go listen to my "real" one. Maybe it'll wear off, I've only had it for a month - we'll see. My office system was previously driven by a Creek 4330 MK II and occasionally a Marantz 1060 for vintage flavoring.
Interesting post. Can't help you because i have no experience with low-power systems and only experience with one high power system (250w/c). But I have an add-on question: You mentioned space/size constraints. What other reason would there be for going from a high to a low power system?
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