I'm somewhat amazed at myself for continuing to follow this thread, since I have received exactly ZERO response to my email asking Evolution Acoustics for information on dealers, availability and pricing. I realize the owners of EA are busy getting their new Chinese speaker project off the ground, but finding good office help should not be difficult.
I thank Byron for nailing the issues with this company in his comments that I quote here, for all of us to ponder one more time.
1. Long production delays damage trust.
2. Large unanticipated price increases damage trust.
3. Slow responses to customer inquires damage trust.
4. Arguments on internet forums damage trust.
There are a lot of good speakers on the market. But this particular speaker manufacturer is clearly not interested in counting me among its happy and satisfied customers. As a result, there is no longer any reason for me to consider spending my hard-earned cash with Evolution Acoustics.
Disappointed in Canada |
Jtinn,
can you please confirm if the price of the MMMicroOne's will indeed increase for the next batch, or if this has been only a false rumor? I think this forum deserves this to be clarified.
Thanks!
Jdec |
I'm not going to comment on the issues being expressed here, but am prepared to offer an early assessment of sound quality. I'm probably less than 1/4 way into the 300-hour recommended break-in period, but I can unequivocally state the MMMicroOnes at this point are easily the equal of the Harbeth Compact 7ES-3s I've been using. If you've heard the Harbeth's, you'll know how ringing this endorsement is. I'm looking forward to getting past the 300-hour mark and expect the MM Ones to make further significant gains. Well done Jonathan and Kevin.
-Mike |
The old phrase
It was partly your use of the phrase 'the best "Chinese" drivers,' which isn't a compliment in the audiophile world.
Can really sink a battleship. Kind of hard to weasel out of that one LOL. Word do have a way of coming back and biting us in the a$$. |
Sprks, I honestly do not remember that.
I didn't intend at all to try and derail this thread, as others have done to threads concerning my work. Only thing left to say is I do sincerely wish Evolution, and all other manufacturers, the best of luck. More manufacturers putting out quality work only serves to benefit everyone in the business. And by all accounts Jonathan Tinn is doing just that. I'll make sure and introduce myself to him at RMAF so the air can be cleared if needed. |
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Vapor1, your post was deleted on 9/5 which you asked to have a cutaway cabinet on display or empty cabinet with drivers on display. Don't you remember posting this in response to Jtinn? It was right after Dinder1's post on 9/5. Maybe too many posts and forgot about one?
It was strange to see one competitor challenging another in these threads. You sure don't see that too often. |
Jtinn,
It is not about the cost. It was about the responsibility of the dealer/manufacturer to communicate the correct price to the consumer. Your responsible reply will rub positively with folks on this forum who want to upgrade their speakers in future. And that is what I applauded you for. |
Dear fellow Goners: I just wanted to state for the record (I have no afilliation with EA) that I have always found them to be responsive and am completely satisified with the delivery, quality, and sound of my MMMicroOnes. I can also sympathize with EA in that going from manufacturing low volumes of expensive speakers in the US is a world apart from manufacturing high volumes of relatively inexpensive speakers in China. The MicroOnes are no doubt the best small room speaker I have heard, bar none. I think some real engineering went into these speakers and it is unfortunate that so many others do not. I commend Jonathan, Kevin, and the EA team for enduring what certainly had to be a painful birth of this speaker line. |
09-23-12: Vapor1
I didn't insinuate they were modded Wavecors, it's obviously a new design. All I said is it looks like a Wavecor frame. Even Accuton borrowed frame design from another manufacturer. The Wavecor frame is plenty beefy and well engineered for the job, supposing it is what they're using. And there's no reason to pay for tooling of a new frame when an off the shelf component exists that does the job.
I only posted here to say bravo on what looks like a well executed bespoke woofer design, that's no small undertaking. Please don't misrepresent my intent...
After 2 years and 200+ posts (in this thread) I'm pretty sure I've only posted in this thread once ... not sure how that makes me 'very intrigued'. And all I posted was how the woofer design was impressive. What's the problem? Since you are asking, I will say that I too wondered about the intent of your (now deleted) post. It was partly your use of the phrase 'the best "Chinese" drivers,' which isn't a compliment in the audiophile world. As the manufacturer of a competing product, ANY discussion of a competitor's design could easily be interpreted as professional rivalry. I'm not making a statement about your intent. I'm making a statement about the APPEARANCE of your intent. FWIW, although I haven't heard Vapor's speakers, I've been told by a trusted source that they sound fantastic. Judging from your website, they are an impressive technical and aesthetic achievement. I congratulate you. But I also urge you to consider the advice I gave to Jonathan and Kevin in my post on 9/21. Having read both Vapor threads, I will point out that this is not the first occasion in which your intent is under question. It's certainly possible that you're being misunderstood and misrepresented, but the fact that it continues to recur suggests that you should reexamine what you discuss or how you discuss it. Wishing the best for both Evolution Acoustics and Vapor... Bryon |
The country of orgin for various parts does`nt matter. I`m sure the spectrum of quality in china is broad as it is in any other country.The only thing that matters is the sound performance,reliability,support/customer service and relative value to competing companies. The market will decide the sucess of this new speaker.Early favorable impressions are a good start.
Regards, |
I just hit refresh here before heading out to the shop for the day. Glad I did since my comments obviously need clarification.
Guys, I hade NO intention of calling into question the quality of the woofer that Evolution has designed. You're totally misreading my intent, of course the post has been removed now so it's impossible to re-read. But seriously, what I was saying is that woofer looks fantastic, that it looks to be a very well executed design, and that I was impressed at how they pulled it off given the technical challenges.
I was giving a compliment, nothing thinly veiled or ulterior. An honest compliment. |
Jtinn,
Can you tell us anything about the possible price increases discussed above? Thank you. |
Aol wrote
I bet had this been shipped by FEDEX or DHL the door to door charges would be a lot less than $900.
Call Fedex with all info on the 3 crates and get the amount of $$$ it would be to do a pick up @ your door & ship back to the return address. Report back. |
As far as I can tell, it looks like vapor1's comment on the origin of the MMMicroOne driver has been removed. Rightfully so IMO. When it first appeared, it seemed like a thinly veiled exposé by someone in the industry; it was disingenuous at best. That the author is a manufacturer of a competing product raises suspicion of ulterior motives--namely to call into question the quality of some of the MMMicroOne's components. For one manufacturer to try and "call out" another's product comes across as inappropriate--probably why the post was deleted. For those of you that followed the deleted Vapor Cirrus thread, this move appears to reaffirm the negative reaction to Vapor and its customer service by some passionate (and very focal) dissatisfied customers.
I don't really care about the source of the driver used in the MMMicroOne. All I know is what I heard at RMAF last year and it was very positive. The speaker as a combination of its parts--the cabinet, crossover, and drivers--performs so well that credit must be given to its designer and manufacturer. I for one think that the MMMicroOne is deserving of all the praise and good press. |
Jtinn, are the drivers modded Wavecors as Vapor is insinuating? I didn't insinuate they were modded Wavecors, it's obviously a new design. All I said is it looks like a Wavecor frame. Even Accuton borrowed frame design from another manufacturer. The Wavecor frame is plenty beefy and well engineered for the job, supposing it is what they're using. And there's no reason to pay for tooling of a new frame when an off the shelf component exists that does the job. I only posted here to say bravo on what looks like a well executed bespoke woofer design, that's no small undertaking. Please don't misrepresent my intent. |
Anyone know if EA is going to have a cutaway cabinet of the MicroOne at RMAF as requested by Vapor Audio (Vapor1)? Vapor Audio for some reason is very intrigued by this speaker design. After 2 years and 200+ posts (in this thread) I'm pretty sure I've only posted in this thread once ... not sure how that makes me 'very intrigued'. And all I posted was how the woofer design was impressive. What's the problem? |
Agear: Absolutely not. He is, of course, incorrect and I am sure he already knows that. As I have previously stated, we manufacture them ourselves. These insinuations are ridiculous and incredibly desperate.
Milpai: It was actually about $350 more, not $900. |
Jtinn,
+1 for you. Absolutely fair self judgement. Keep it up!!
Sprks,
To me, MMMicro One and Vapor Cirrus are directly competing products. I bet, a lot of people would be vising EA and Vapor room for these 2 products. From whatever I read and gather information, these two products seem to offer the best bang for buck in the stand-mount loudspeaker category. |
I have always found it funny how, in general , selling to Canada/over seas that the buyer wants free shipping or near free shipping.
Aol,
Why didn't you get the weight/size of the crates and do your homework yourself If you were so worried about the cost. Does the price paid seem like a rip off. CB! |
Sprks, I've been to many, many shows, including 30 CESs and have never seen a cutaway of a speaker. |
Jtinn, are the drivers modded Wavecors as Vapor is insinuating?
Charles, side by side testing with or without measurements has merit and is probably worth more than off the cuff show impressions. If u read through the entire thread link above, you can understand Jtinn's reticence.
A recent historical perspective on testing and transparency in hi end audio from Stereophile: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1107awsi/ |
Anyone know if EA is going to have a cutaway cabinet of the MicroOne at RMAF as requested by Vapor Audio (Vapor1)? Vapor Audio for some reason is very intrigued by this speaker design. |
Bryon,
I think Aoliviero is complaining about the extra $900 that he was not told besides the shipping that he had to pay. It would be fair to let any buyer know what the "total" cost of the transaction would be.
Even when I was dealing with Promitheus from Malaysia (very small compared to EA), they told me the total price including shipping and customs. BTW, I don't think it's fair to compare plane tickets for passengers with freight :-) |
Glory: In all fairness to Aoliviero, he is absolutely right, it was my fault and I take full responsibility for the mistake.
You are correct that the shipping is not ridiculous for what it is and where it was going, but I inadvertently quoted him for door to airport when he absolutely asked for door to door. It was certainly not intentional but I had a miscommunication with the shipping company. His choice to proceed might have been different if he knew up front what the actual total was going to be.
I deserve everything he said. |
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3 big crates for $925.00 to Tokyo seems like it's not off the wall. Wow what cry babies. I wonder what an air line ticket is to Tokyo from LA? Anyone know?
I bought these speakers and the whole transaction has been 1st class with phone calls and mail.
If these speakers are any where near what I heard at ML's place than I will be a happy camper.
Bryon,
Nice system you have. Very clean looking and great gear. |
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I think Jonathan has been a victim of two factors. One getting a new product into production often runs into totally unanticipated problems. I have personally know several small companies with great new products that have run into just incredible obstacles, such as small manufactures saying they cannot make more of a vital component. Fortunately for most of these companies, their sales developed slowly. This is Jonathan's second major problem, too much success. I too was wowed by what I heard in the prototype long ago.
I would not have purchased a pair based on the prototype given my experiences above. In fact I have equipment that I still use and like that is mine forever given the failure of the small company involved. I can say nothing about transparency, of course. I guess we will see if the more expensive speakers will succeed. I have heard no one say they are awful, so I guess they will survive, although they might not be a great bargain. |
Hi Agear,
There seem to be quite a number of audio components that measure average(sometimes even poor) yet reviewers and listeners say they sound excellent(the converse occurs also).All I can say is under show conditions at RMAF 2011 the Micro one system/room clearly sounded much better than the Magico system. Why? who knows.Don`t know if measurements would explain this, I doubt it.
Regards, |
Very good advice.
The whatsbest thread is pretty divisive. Most speaker's do not measure well like electronics, but it would be interesting to see the Micros measured and compared to the Magicos.... |
Bryon,
Your advice is well reasoned and thoughtful.
I heard the Micro One and it is a very natural and good sounding speaker(as are their larger models).
I wish the company sucess with this smaller model which many music lovers will find relatively affordable.
Regards, |
I definitely agree with ByroncunninghamÂ’s 4 observations and comments. IÂ’m a recent owner of the MMMicroOne having taken delivery last week. I would add a 5th comment to his list.
5. Lack of transparency, lack of trustworthiness and deception damage trust.
I live in Tokyo, Japan and ended up having to pay $925.00 USD to have these shipped to me. ThatÂ’s not what I thought I was getting into and led to believe. $925 shipping for a pair of $2500 speakers is mightily outrageous and I would not have done that had I know clearly upfront. But by the time it became obvious it was too late.
When shipping was invoiced to me I asked Jonathan if that was door to door. He indicated he thought it was and would check and call me back if it wasnÂ’t. Anyway, I never got a call, the speakers arrived in Tokyo and that was when I was informed by the local shipper that the goods had been shipped only to the airport and I was liable for the delivery to my door.
I called Jonathan, sent numerous emails and he then indicated that apparently his agent decided in the last minute to charge only to the airport as apparently it would be cheaper for me to pay delivery from the airport versus having that included from the start.
This is exactly what he was supposed to check for me, but he obviously did not or he knew the charges would be large and decided to withhold the information such that I wouldn't pull the order.
I feel I was deceived and at a minimum, if that wasnÂ’t the case, he did not follow through on his promise to validate the total shipping charges for me. I also found it odd delivery would only be charged to airport. I have purchased a lot of things overseas and shipping charges were always door to door.
I wonder if EA and their shipper are in cahoots and making unnecessary margins on shipping and deceiving perspective buyers. I bet had this been shipped by FEDEX or DHL the door to door charges would be a lot less than $900.
Anyway, on a scale of 1-10 I rate the customer service as a 1. Especially after the shipment invoice was paid and leading up to the shipment and during this payment crisis many many emails and phone messages went unanswered.
No matter how good a product might be, customer service and trust comes first and had I know it would end up this way I would not have purchased these speakers.
I caution all overseas buyers to look at your shipping charges very carefully and ask for DDU or DDP charges that pay for the charge door to door. |
Correction to my post... "EE" should read "EA," for Evolution Acoustics. Apologies.
Bryon |
I've followed this thread from the beginning. I've heard the MicroOne on two occasions in the past year, at RMAF and NewPort Beach. IMO, the praise for the Micro is deserved. The SQ of these speakers is remarkable. For the price, it is extraordinary.
Now that they are shipping to customers, I feel inclined to share a few observations about the somewhat rocky inception of this product. IMO...
1. Long production delays damage trust.
2. Large unanticipated price increases damage trust.
3. Slow responses to customer inquires damage trust.
4. Arguments on internet forums damage trust.
Evidence for each of those statements can be found on this thread and other internet forums. That is regrettable for EE.
I've met Jonathan and Kevin and they strike me as nice guys, and plenty smart. But I believe they have done themselves a disservice, because I believe the issues above could have been handled differently. I understand that production delays are sometimes unavoidable and production costs can be difficult to predict. I understand that small operations cannot return every email and that it's difficult to watch someone impugn your reputation on a public forum and not fight back. Nevertheless, I believe that there are a few things Jonathan and Kevin can do...
1. Be extremely transparent about production delays and pricing. You don't have to name names or reveal every exact figure, but much more specific information would go a long way toward reassuring customers. It could also, incidentally, build anticipation.
2. Hire someone to return calls/emails. If that's not possible, enlist a loved one. If that's not possible, then at least expand the FAQ page on your website so that it answers as many questions as possible, both technical questions and purchasing questions. The more information the better. This would not only alleviate some of the pressure to return calls and emails but it would also, IMO, build even greater interest in the audiophile community.
3. Adjust your style when dealing with troublesome posters on internet forums like these. Fight innuendo with information. Be as unemotional about it as possible. If that isn't in your nature, then don't address any specific post, and just give occasional updates that address recurring concerns.
I apologize if all this seems presumptuous. I'm offering these suggestions as a sincere effort to provide meaningful input to a company that, IMO, deserves to thrive.
The MicroOne and EE are currently enjoying the spotlight. But the spotlight is fickle. What is brightly lit today is dimly lit tomorrow. I would invite Jonathan and Kevin to do everything in their power to ensure that EE and its remarkable products remain visible for years to come.
Bryon |
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Gleeds, are you at liberty to speak to the question about a possible price increase? |
Recroon,
I would suggest Giving them a call. Much quicker response I'm sure.
You will find the phone # on their site or go to Chambers Audio.com. I know JT is very busy these days but is usually very responsive & helpful.
As for putting them in a 20x30x8. Yes they will work but much depends on associated gear & expectations. My room is 22x33x8 & I've encountered no problems using them in my dedicated room. Of course I have not played them at ear bleeding levels either but I have pushed them a bit.
Good Luck,
Thanks
Gary |
Same here, I can't contact EA, Blue Light Audio, or Jtinn by email or telephone. I wonder if I should drive by and knock on the door since I live in Portland, OR. |
I am in a much smaller room than your 20 x 30 x 8 and sit nearfield between the speakers, so I am not entirely sure if the speakers are good candidates for your larger room. A lot of it will depend on how much amplifier power you have. The speakers produce 87dB at a distance of 1 meter at 1 watt essentially, so 10 W will produce 97 dB peaks at 1 m, 100 W 107 dB peaks. The sound pressure levels fall off as the square of the distance from the speakers, so you can work this out. I would think a larger room would dilute the bass volume also, so a subwoofer would help here. Hopefully EA will respond to your inquiry soon with a more definitive answer. One thing I can say: once you hear the gorgeous midrange of these speakers you won't care about the bass. YMMV of course. |
Recroom.... I'm using the MicroOne's in a room that's 21L x 15W x 8H. I know it's not the same size as your room but the room it will end up in is 35L x 18W x 8H.
There's another member here Grr6001 that has a room that's closer to your room specs. Hopefully he can chime in and give his feedback.
I can tell you that I'm not concerned about their performance in the larger room. Currently I'm breaking them in on my 2-channel system. These speakers can handle huge dynamics and can play really loud without any strain.
Jonathan is usually great in reaching back out to customers. Try him at info at bluelightaudio dot com. |
For me, it's not the value of the speaker. If true, it's very off-putting to learn that a company is raising prices by 60% of not a next generation of the same speaker, but a different shipment of the same speaker. Just doesn't seem right to me, no matter how good people say they are. |
Rlawry et al.,
I've asked on this board, and even emailed Evolution Acoustics, but got no response from either source: what size room is best for the MMMicroOne speakers? Mine is 20 x 30 x 8 ft. Should I consider these speakers as candidates for such a space?
I also asked EA for a list of dealers and told them I was also interested in the MMMicroTwo speakers, which are listed on their website with no information available. I have received no response from EA, which is very frustrating. It's enough to make me turn my attention elsewhere.
Can anyone help fill in the blanks?
Thanks! |
Before anyone dismisses these speakers entirely based on possible rising prices, I would strongly encourage you to seek out a pair for listening. They are one of the best-sounding speakers that I have heard in almost 40 years in audio. |
Looks like these are off of my purchase list. |
Wow, the dealer in Texas told me that the first shipment stay at $2500 BUT...the next shipment will cost you AROUND $4000 so anyone thinking about getting these speakers BETTER send in your payment right now !!..... |
I agree with Hifisoundguy. If you can even remotely approach the sound a good panel with a cheap box then you are cooking with gas. Panels have never been practical for me, and thus I have sought out boxes that approach their openness and speed. I think proper engineering of the box goes a long way towards that goal, and both Vapor and EEs are to be congratulated for their efforts for making it affordable.... |
I'm also about to order a pair of these speakers, could we get some feedback with a lot cheaper gear? |
Any other feedback on this speaker? About to send in payment for a pair. Have a fairly large room with 22' ceilings. |
I have heard a lot speakers in my time and the Sander Sound model 11 electrostatic speaker system is one of the best speakers I have ever heard...at any price!
If these MM Micro Ones can get you even close in sound to the Sander's.. then they are going to sell a h@ll of a lot of these speakers !!...
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