I would agree that these speakers sounded great at THE Show. I also think that they were not as good at the RMAF. Was it entirely the room? |
There sound was great, but consider a $2000/pair speaker driven by a $25,000 amp and $30,000 preamp??? I would like to have them side by side with my LSA1 Statements ($2500/pair). |
Hifimaniac, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to hear these speakers with other electronics. They sounded great at THE Show in 2011. I fully understand why they have been long in reaching market as this is not uncommon. I look forward to hearing production versions of these very promising speakers. |
Tawa, Are they being shipped yet? |
Goldmanjay, did you hear them at last year's THE Show? I though those sounded much better. I did learn of the long saga of getting the parts together to manufacturer the speakers. |
As I understand it, they will be shipping production in March. I assume that only prototypes have been heard. As in most production, there have been major problems in getting these to market. |
It is two parts no longer made issue, as I understand it. |
I have heard of other sagas getting audio components from prototype to production, but this one wins first place. |
Robdker, that was my first thought when I first heard the prototypes, but it certainly was true that they sounded great.
I have a recent experience of using expensive electronic on inexpensive speakers. I sold my Tidals in late Spring and had only the LSA1 Statement speakers to listen to. These are just under $2200 per pair. Originally, I bought them although I had no idea where I was going to use them. Later we bought a summer home with a very small bedroom that became by summer listening room. The LSA1 Statements were perfect.
I merely removed the Tidals and put the LSAs and their stands in those places. My BMC amps, dac/pre, and phono stage along with my other H-Cat and Exemplar XP-2 preamp are worth at least ten times as much as the speakers. Of course, I wished I could get my new BMC speakers or had held off selling the Tidals longer, but nevertheless, I really enjoyed what I was hearing.
Perhaps we put too much money into our speakers to gain so little at the top and bottom ends.
At any rate, I look forward to hearing the Evolutions at the RMAF or CES. Their birth has been long and painful. |
Will the production version be at the RMAF? |
Sprks, I've been to many, many shows, including 30 CESs and have never seen a cutaway of a speaker. |
Sprks, some people have personal needs. |
I think Jonathan has been a victim of two factors. One getting a new product into production often runs into totally unanticipated problems. I have personally know several small companies with great new products that have run into just incredible obstacles, such as small manufactures saying they cannot make more of a vital component. Fortunately for most of these companies, their sales developed slowly. This is Jonathan's second major problem, too much success. I too was wowed by what I heard in the prototype long ago.
I would not have purchased a pair based on the prototype given my experiences above. In fact I have equipment that I still use and like that is mine forever given the failure of the small company involved. I can say nothing about transparency, of course. I guess we will see if the more expensive speakers will succeed. I have heard no one say they are awful, so I guess they will survive, although they might not be a great bargain. |
Glory, As I was left with only LSA1 Statements but already had 8 SP Ultra Fives from use on my Tidals, I decided to put three under each of the inexpensive LSA stands. I was just amazed by the improvement. I never experimented with the big Ultra Fives directly under the monitors. This is, of course, $4200 worth of isolation under $2700 worth of speakers, but it was great sound. |
Peterayer, well I spent a good deal of time listening to the MMMicros driven by the new BMC integrated amp. They played a tape of Hugh Masekela's Stimela, and I was just in awe! I have never heard this so perfectly captured. No doubt much was attributable to the tape, but the speakers never protested and captured even the thunderous drumming.
Prdprez, one of my experiences this summer belies your argument. I had the LSA1 Statement speakers on the sand filled steel and cheap speaker stands. I have four of the mindblowing StilllPoints Ultra Fives sitting around awaiting my new BMC speakers. I decided to try them under the LSA stands. I was shocked at the improvement. We are beset by vibrations in seeking realism in our music reproduction. |
Prdprez, everything has a resonant frequency, so all stands sound different. Filling a stand with lead shot greatly lowers the resonant frequency. Isolation and coupling are the same thing, just different frequencies. |
Prdprez, what if you listened to two isolation cones, one of steel and one of brass and the brass ones sounded better? You are right that steel stores much of the energy of its resonance but wrong in saying that a steel stand is like a "rock" when filled with sand, etc. Many rocks, such as granite ring also. I think you are assuming that we understand all that is going on in a proper speaker stand.
The best isolation devices I have ever heard are made of stainless steel and ceramic balls. Ceramics can ring as can stainless steel. The StillPoints Ultra Fives will not ring.
But alas, this is not the concern of this thread. |
Prdprez, I'm sorry but stands do sound different. On one hand you say that "...stands are not one of them (stereo performance)." Then you say many have "simple flaws." I agree that some don't use proper materials or to dampen the ringing or to isolate the speaker from the floor or drain the energy from the speaker or coming to it from the floor or air.
It has only been the last several years that I have cared about speaker stands as I have the LSA1 Statements in a small room. However, floorstanding speakers have the same problems. There is an interface between the speakers and the floor. John Dunlavy always said the his speakers needed no feet under them. He was wrong. Others have soft cushions, some have points of different materials, usually steel or stainless steel; and some have multiple material feet with multiple resonances. Which is better? Obviously, there is little agreement as science provides no answer.
My advice is don't go into the speaker stand or isolation devices. Some will say that they sound great and others that the suck. |
I just heard them again at CES. I'm still struck by how loud they play and small they are. |
Prdprez, I think you are right about the discussion getting circular and off the topic. I find that speaker stands sound quite different and that I like some. If you insist that they are done by "right" engineers and I think that our knowledge is insufficient to totally explain what we hear, I am will to just say yes, you are right and go on think I am right. I have manmade ebony stands (newspaper and plastic). They don't ring, are heavy, with StillPoints OEMs under the speakers, spikes under the stands, and sound great. I would love to hear the MMMicro one on them. |
I heard the prototype MMMicro Ones long ago and was very impressed. Since then I have heard the production versions on three occasions. At the RMAF last year when driven by a BMC integrated amp, they were shockingly good and at THE Show in Vagas, I was much less impressed.
I have heard no owner of the production version who thinks the production speakers failed to equal the prototypes. That is my question. |
